Is anyone able to watch satellite 129 even Tp channels with a 622 legacy LNB setup

[LG811User]

Is anyone able to watch even transponder channels on satellite 129 with a 622 legacy LNBF/switch setup?

I have a 622 with a legacy quad LNBF on a Dish 500 for 110/119 and a legacy dual LNBF on a Dish 300 pointed at 129. These go through 2 SW21s to feed my 622.

I can't receive any even transponder (10, 22, 30) channels (NFLHD HGTVHD HDNEWS RAVE KUNGFUHD) on satellite 129.

I posted a thread at:
http://www.satelliteguys.us/showthread.php?t=67470
and finally figured out the problem with great help from CABill on dbstalk.

The upshot is that I think the 622 has a bug trying to select even transponder channels on satellite 129 with legacy LNBFs/switches. The reason for this post is to confirm/deny this by seeing if anyone else with a similar setup is able to receive the channels.

The 622 should output ~18V DC on the satellite input(s) to select even transponders on any satellite.

Today I hooked a voltmeter directly to the 622's satellite input and monitored the voltage while I switched satellites and transponders from the "Point Dish" screen.

It turns out that the 622 *always* outputs 13V when the 129 satellite is selected regardless of which transponder is selected. Clearly there is no way I will be able to watch a 129 even transponder channel.

BTW, I tested my methodology and setup by selecting even transponders on other satellites. Each and every time the voltage measured 20V.

 

[Smith P.]

Then it is real bug in software.

 

[SmityWhity]

I'm not really sure your system is working as good as you say it is; that is, both satellite tuners (TV1 and TV2) able to pick up 119 Odd on TV1 while picking up 119 Even on TV2.

Try this. Run a Check switch. You may have to select alternate, or try it both ways. But when you finish running check switch, there will be another button that you can click on to get results.

It should show something like:
Tuner 1:
...119 Odd/Even
...110 Odd/Even
...129 Odd/Even

Tuner 2:
...119 Odd/Even
...110 Odd/Even
...129 Odd/Even

If it only shows 129 Odd, then maybe it's do to the 622 software version; but L357 and L359 should work. However, maybe a bad SW21 or bad Legacy Dual LNBF.

In which case, I think to rule out software, I would swing the Dish 500 Quad LNBF a hair to the west so that it picks up 129/119 instead of 119/110. Disconnect the Dual LNBF. Then run a check switch and check the results button/page.

If it shows as above, but just for 129 and 119, then you have a problem with the Dual LNBF, 1 or 2 SW21's, or cables.

If not, and 129 still only shows Odd, then you probably have a 622 issue.

It's been awhile, but I believe I did have a Legacy Dual LNBF pointed at 129, connected to both tuners on the 622, and it worked. If no rain tomorrow, and I'm not doing anything, I may test that.

 

[LG811User]

SmityWhity

I can't find any button on the 622 that shows even/odd results.

I do recall seeing this button on my 942 and 811.

Given my experiments measuring the voltage at the output I'm quite convinced it's the 622 software. Nonetheless I'll try what you suggest and I'd very much appreciate it if you could see whether or not you can get the even Tps on 622 via your legacy dual lnbf.

I have tried swapping out my dual LNBF.

 

[SmityWhity]

On the button, I'm referring to the menu items on the screen that you select using the remote.

Menu 6, 1, 1.
Select Check Switch.
I believe you would select Alternate.
Select Test.
Then Details will be highlighted.
Click "SELECT" on the remote.

It will then give you more information. Mainly, which satellites were found, and which polarities for each satellite were found; this info will also display for each Tuner.

Also....
Menu, 6, 1, 3.
Will give you system info. You sometimes need to give it a half-minute to display.
You can look on it to find out what software version you have, which by now should be L359.

 

[LG811User]

Thanks SmityWity,

Menu 6, 2, 2 "Details" simply isn't available on the 622. (at least on mine)

Menu 6, 1, 3 does include "Details" but the details don't include odd/even status.

Yes, I have L359.


For reference:

I did complete a check switch and it shows all 3 satellites green. On the 622 I can't find a way to see odd/even status.

When I did my testing with the Point Dish screen and the voltmeter I selected satellites both "in" my configuration and "out of" my configuration. It was very clear that the 622 sent 20V for even Tps on all satellites *except* the 129 (even including, in my case, 61.5 which is not in my configuration).

 

[SmityWhity]

That may have been a typo, but it's "Menu 6, 1, 1" not 622.
The details are only available right after you do a "Check Switch."

A little while ago, I did attempt to test it. I got everything hook up, the dish pointed to 129 using other equipment, etc... I ran two lines from the Legacy Dual LNBF to Sat In 1 and 2. I ran a check switch, it found the Dual, but there was no signal. It showed a Dish Pro for the switch which is wrong. Anyway, it was raining like hell, so I figure that may be the problem. I had to disconnect and reconnect my normal setup so the kids could watch TV.

When I went outside, I noticed I accidently put a Dual DishPro LNBF instead of my Dual Legacy LNBF.

It's a light rain now but the kids are in. Maybe in the morning, I can try it again.

 

[LG811User]

Sorry, you're right. "Menu 6, 1, 1" not "Menu 6, 2, 2" - typo.

I did a "Check Switch." - details not available - just tried it. Maybe I'm missing something?

 

[SmityWhity]

Maybe that's the case when you have a DishPro Plus Receiver, but using Legacy LNBFs & Legacy Switches. Legacy is one-way communications while the DishPro is two-way, but it seems it would still display some info.

I have my Dish 500, with a Dual Legacy LNBF on the 119 port, it is pointed at 129 with 2 cables coming out. I believe it is peaked pretty good. Either later tonight or when the roosters crow, I'll hook it back to the 622 and see what happens, and let you know.

 

[LG811User]

I have my Dish 500, with a Dual Legacy LNBF on the 119 port, it is pointed at 129 with 2 cables coming out. I believe it is peaked pretty good. Either later tonight or when the roosters crow, I'll hook it back to the 622 and see what happens, and let you know.

Thanks!

 

[SmityWhity]

Last night I was able to go ahead and remove the DP Separator from my 622 and replace with 2 direct feeds from a Dish Legacy Dual LNBF that I've had since 1996. With just one dual LNBF, I did not need a switch, plus I don't have one anyway.

I went into Point Dish, and then ran a Check Switch.

The results for a Legacy LNBF/Switch system is different than when you have a DishPro system connected to the 622, and probably any other DP/DPP receivers. It does not give you the extra details. And the System Info page also has less info.

However, after running check switch, and getting an updated guide for the HD-Silver package with Denver Locals and the Korean package, for a single satellite at 129 on both tuners, I was able to take signal readings for Odd and Even transponders on both Tuners (1 and 2). Likewise, when I went into the guide, I had all expected channels for a reduced setup, and were able to view channels from Odd and Even transponders on 129 as follows:

.....20 HD channels on 129
.....4 Denver Local HD channels on 129 (plus mapped to regular channel numbers)
.....1 Welcome, you have a D1000

I've never used legacy switches and do not know what you can cascade and cannot cascade, and what limitations there are when using with a DP and/or DPP receiver.

Since you know you are not getting the correct voltage from the receiver, then I would say the receiver is either bad, or hopefully just the logic is temporarily off. I would power down and unplugged the receiver for 2 or 3 minutes, as well as any power sources for the switches you have. Then power it all up and immediately run another check switch.

You said both your Quad and Dual LNBFs are Legacy. I believe in all situations, you can not mix Legacy and DishPro LNBFs and Switches. You may want to double check your Dual and make sure it is not a DP.

If I remember right:
(1) Legacy Odd transponders use 13V.
(2) Legacy Even transponders use 18V, but must be at least 15V at the LNBF.
(3) DishPro LNBF uses a 22KHz tone riding on 20V, but can drop to 10V at the LNBF.

If you only have 1 receiver, It might be time to get rid of the Legacy LNBFs and replace with a DP Plus Twin, and a DP Dual. I don't think you would need any switches on that setup. But you would need to check before buying. If you decide to upgrade, you may consider a Dish 1000 or 1000.2; or even the Dish 1000+.

EDIT: In last paragraph I changed "DP Twin" to "DP Plus Twin". I believe the DP Plus Twin will allow a wing dish while the DP Twin will not (??).

 

[LG811User]

Last night I was able to go ahead and remove the DP Separator from my 622 and replace with 2 direct feeds from a Dish Legacy Dual LNBF that I've had since 1996. With just one dual LNBF, I did not need a switch, plus I don't have one anyway.

Thanks for going to the trouble to check this!

I went into Point Dish, and then ran a Check Switch.

The results for a Legacy LNBF/Switch system is different than when you have a DishPro system connected to the 622, and probably any other DP/DPP receivers. It does not give you the extra details. And the System Info page also has less info.

Ahhh...that makes sense

However, after running check switch, and getting an updated guide for the HD-Silver package with Denver Locals and the Korean package, for a single satellite at 129 on both tuners, I was able to take signal readings for Odd and Even transponders on both Tuners (1 and 2). Likewise, when I went into the guide, I had all expected channels for a reduced setup, and were able to view channels from Odd and Even transponders on 129 as follows:

.....20 HD channels on 129
.....4 Denver Local HD channels on 129 (plus mapped to regular channel numbers)
.....1 Welcome, you have a D1000

Thanks. Did you actually try to tune to the channels on the even Tps on 129 (eg Rave)? Or just take signal readings for the Tps and verifiy that they are in the guide?

The reason that I ask is that I can take signal readings for the Tps in question (10, 22, 30) in the Point Dish screen and they all give 70+ (although given that the incorrect voltage is present at the satellite in, it must be "lying"). Also, I can see the channels in the guide. The problem only presents itself when I try to switch to the channels to view them.

I've never used legacy switches and do not know what you can cascade and cannot cascade, and what limitations there are when using with a DP and/or DPP receiver.

Since you know you are not getting the correct voltage from the receiver, then I would say the receiver is either bad, or hopefully just the logic is temporarily off. I would power down and unplugged the receiver for 2 or 3 minutes, as well as any power sources for the switches you have. Then power it all up and immediately run another check switch.

Tried that. No luck there either.

You said both your Quad and Dual LNBFs are Legacy. I believe in all situations, you can not mix Legacy and DishPro LNBFs and Switches. You may want to double check your Dual and make sure it is not a DP.

If I remember right:
(1) Legacy Odd transponders use 13V.
(2) Legacy Even transponders use 18V, but must be at least 15V at the LNBF.
(3) DishPro LNBF uses a 22KHz tone riding on 20V, but can drop to 10V at the LNBF.

Yes, all of my gear is legacy. Legacy quad LNBF. Legacy dual LNBF. 2 legacy SW21s. I actually have 2 legacy duals and I have tried both.

If you only have 1 receiver, It might be time to get rid of the Legacy LNBFs and replace with a DP Plus Twin, and a DP Dual. I don't think you would need any switches on that setup. But you would need to check before buying. If you decide to upgrade, you may consider a Dish 1000 or 1000.2; or even the Dish 1000+.

EDIT: In last paragraph I changed "DP Twin" to "DP Plus Twin". I believe the DP Plus Twin will allow a wing dish while the DP Twin will not (??).

Thanks. I actually have 3 receivers and one of them (the Vip622) requires 2 feeds. I am considering switching over to DishPro but it will cost a couple hundred bucks (DP Quad LNBF, DP Dual LNBF, 2 DP SW21s) so I'm hesitating.

I really think it's just a software problem on the Vip622 because if I select even Tps on any other satellite (61.5 148) the correct voltage appears - 20V.

 

[SmityWhity]

Although I did not physically view all 20 HD channels, I did view several, and while viewing a channel, I went into Menu 611 to see what transponder it defaulted to. Using that scheme, I did see programs that were on both transponders.

I suspect your other 2 receivers are not HD.

As you say, I guess you may have something wrong with your 622.

Out of curiousity... The HD programs on the even transponders, do they show up red in the guide and what actually happens when you click on the program to view it?

Enjoy the holiday.

PS - 20 volts - I guess 20V is close enough to 18V, with +/- for various fluctuations.

 

[LG811User]

Yes, my other 2 receivers are not HD.

The HD programs on the even channels show up normally on the guide. When I click "OK" to the view them they say "Error - Check Switch. There is problem with your switch...."

There are actually only a few even Tp channels on 129 (Rave HDNews KungFu HGTVHD NatGeoHD StarzHD and, I think, NFLHD) so unless you click on one those explicitly, I don't think you'll see the problem.


Thanks again for all your help - happy 4th!

 

[BobaBird]

I actually have 3 receivers and one of them (the Vip622) requires 2 feeds. I am considering switching over to DishPro but it will cost a couple hundred bucks (DP Quad LNBF, DP Dual LNBF, 2 DP SW21s) so I'm hesitating.

The "DP SW21" name was only used on early production units, it has long been called the DP21, but you don't need them anyway. If you want to upgrade to DishPro, you just need a DP Twin, DP Dual, and DP34 switch (assuming your other 2 receivers are DishPro). You could also get a DPP44 instead of the DP34 but you've already got the wiring in place so don't really need it unless you also have legacy receivers or want to get more dual tuners.

I didn't see in your threads if this has always been a problem (when did you get your 622?) or if it started with one of the software upgrades. It doesn't seem to be a hardware problem since your 622 is putting out the higher voltage for evens on other sats.

 

[LG811User]

Thanks BobaBird. The advice on DP switches and LNBFs definitely helps

Yes this has always been a problem for me. My 622 is only about 6 weeks old. I have had 2 software versions on it - 357 and 359

 

[LG811User]

At this point I am very convinced that this is a software bug.

Can one of the admins please help me get this reported to Dish Network?

 

[SimpleSimon]

Just call it in.

Note that a DP Twin, DP Dual and DP34 shouldn't cost anywhere near the "couple of hundred" you're talking about. Some careful shopping on eBay should bring it in at around $100.

 

[LG811User]

Thanks. I priced the equipment on a couple of common dish websites and got $150. I didn't try eBay - I will.