Is it safe to assume yet that HD-Lite is here to stay?

[philhu]

He meant 1080p

Since NOTHING is broadcast in 1080p, 1080i would be just fine for me

 

[techweb]

I have Dish only to get the Voom channels, with cable being my main provider. Even those few HD channels I have in common between Dish and cable (DHD, ESPN HD, HDnet, etc.) look better on cable. If I could get my few favorite Voom channels on cable, I would dump Dish and never look back.

 

[Tom Bombadil]

I have downgraded my Dish subscription since December. I am now paying $24/month less than I did on Dec 1. I have not yet upgraded to a 622, and may not for a while yet.

So I haven't rolled over yet on the HD-lite issue. I like the content of several of the VOOM channels and while the quality from them is decent, it is not the eye candy that is available from my OTA channels.

 

[bhelms]

I have downgraded my Dish subscription since December. I am now paying $24/month less than I did on Dec 1. I have not yet upgraded to a 622, and may not for a while yet.

So I haven't rolled over yet on the HD-lite issue. I like the content of several of the VOOM channels and while the quality from them is decent, it is not the eye candy that is available from my OTA channels.

I agree completely! My HD LiLs are still far off in the future. Since my OTA options are apparently very limited I would be interested in one of the new MPEG-4 receivers just to receive the HD LiLs, but in my case there's no hurry. I don't see much else in the 7 new M-4 HD channels from E* that warrants the extra cost right now. When the HD LiLs and/or more meaningful content are available that require the M-4 equipment then I'll be more inclined to bite. (Besides - I'm apparetly stuck with the 811 for a full 12-mo. commitment until next Dec.) I like some of the 16 HD E* channels I currently receive for content if not for PQ.

Right now my best (and, unfortately, ONLY) HD OTA channel (PBS) is by far the best HD signal I receive PQ-wise. Too bad there's not much on there I want to watch, but it's great to at least have what I believe is a full HD source as a benchmark.

 

[HokieEngineer]

No changes to report to any of the resolutions or bitrates really.

All 720p channels are sent native.

DiscoveryHD, HBO-HD, SHO-HD, HDNet, HDNet Movies, TNT HD, and Universal-HD are sent natively 1920x1080i. The HDPPV (which includes all the nfl, nhl, nba, event ch) channel is 1920x1080 as well.

Voom and the HD local channels are another story. Voom is still 1280x1080i. HD Locals are 720p for fox and abc, 1440x1080i for nbc and cbs.

Supposedly we are still waiting for fiber upgrades before voom will go to 1920x1080i. We'll see about that. So far no comment from dish about CBS and NBC downres'ing.

 

[riffjim4069]

Regarding HD LIL in the my area (Washington DC) here are my observations:

1. FOX - looks close to the real thing (OTA) and I've noticed no video/audio problems...excellent!
2. ABC - a little soft at times with only a few video/audio problems...ok, but needs improvement!
3. NBC - soft, audio/video problems...poor!
4. CBS - very soft, always audio/video problems, trailing video (the LSD affect)...gouge your eyes out horrible!

There's hope for the 720p channels (ABC, FOX)), but the 1080i channels (CBS, NBC) need serious encoder work. There has been a number of complaints about the 1080i channels (and several calls have been placed into D*), but does anyone know what's being done to correct the problem?

 

[KenSoren]

The Dish LA local HD channels seem to be good quality.

I can't get CBS or FOX OTA, but the OTA NBC and ABC PQ looks as good as Dish's.

 

[HokieEngineer]

Yea Ken I can echo your observation about LA and NYC HD locals. Those two are also still transmitted in mpeg2 for what its worth. I still would like to see NBC and CBS transmitted in 1920x1080 instead of 1440x1080.

Riffjim4069: Haven't heard anything from dish regarding trying to fix the washington, DC HD local problems. If anyone else can report in from other locations it would be interesting to see what locations have which problems.

 

[waltinvt]

Yea Ken I can echo your observation about LA and NYC HD locals. Those two are also still transmitted in mpeg2 for what its worth. I still would like to see NBC and CBS transmitted in 1920x1080 instead of 1440x1080.

Riffjim4069: Haven't heard anything from dish regarding trying to fix the washington, DC HD local problems. If anyone else can report in from other locations it would be interesting to see what locations have which problems.

Reporting in from Vermont: We have no HD LiLs. That is our problem.

 

[rlarryvt]

Reporting in from Vermont: We have no HD LiLs. That is our problem.

Walt, I feel yor pain. When they start broadcasting from Mt Mansfield in Oct, do you think Dish will pick them up? If not what do you think my chances of picking them up OTA in Barre?

 

[waltinvt]

Walt, I feel yor pain. When they start broadcasting from Mt Mansfield in Oct, do you think Dish will pick them up? If not what do you think my chances of picking them up OTA in Barre?

As with most anyplace in Vt, it's not how far you are from the station, it's which side of the hill you're on .

If you're in Barre, have you checked with Adelphia cable? I'm pretty sure they've got WCAX-DT and some other HD channels.

What about channels 24 & 25 from Mt Ascutney ? Have you got a shot at them ? I get good signals for both of them from Bradford. One is the Vt PBS digital group, 24-1 & 24-5, of which 24-5 is HD; and the other is NBC from WNNE-DT at 25-1. Both have a real decent HD picture.

 

[jmcgee_jr]

Boy dont I know about what side of the hill being in groton I have the mountains btw you and I walt so I get nothing south of me. Then to the east I have those nice mtns up towards ST J so I dont think thats going to fly. And Mt Mansfield Lets get serious LOL.

 

[waltinvt]

Boy dont I know about what side of the hill being in groton I have the mountains btw you and I walt so I get nothing south of me. Then to the east I have those nice mtns up towards ST J so I dont think thats going to fly. And Mt Mansfield Lets get serious LOL.

Jim, I thought you were switching to Charter or did I dream that?

 

[kokomogator]

That's the trouble - nobody's complaining anymore. There was a big bitchin blitz durning which Dish & Voom said this, that and the other thing and basically blamed it on a fiber issue that WAS being worked on. Personally I think it was all smoke & mirrors to take the pressure off until things calmed down. Dish figured we'd all get so distracted with the launch of MPEG4 receivers and new channels that we'd stop complaining about PQ and they were right.

Exactly, and that's just what has happened, everyone got all juiced up about a new receiver and crappy new HD lite channels, and just moved on to the newest thing. The problem with that is that they will not have any incentive to improve PQ as long as people accept it. We will pay higher and higher prices for substandard quality both in reception and content. I for one will invest my funds in HD DVD and get the quality I want.

 

[kokomogator]

Personally, I don't believe Dish ever intended to do anything about HD-Lite and it was always in the plans to squeeze HD. Once "D" did it and then "E" bought out Voom, it was a given. Truer words never spoken, we were just a bunch of niave idiots that wanted to believe

When everyone was screaming about HD-Lite a few months ago (Gary comes to mind),Have you noticed, that he's not posting anymore since this issue caused such a stink? Dish did their little dance until the smoke cleared but never gave up anything. Yep, everyone was sending emails and getting lip service from Dish....but what changed? Nothing

It's all just like the dance they've been doing around HD DNS for over a year now. They never intended to do it but don't have the guts to say so. They'll just dance around the issue, with no qualms about lying if they have to. This is really one of the few areas left where "D" still has the edge.

It's a shame too because Dish has got all the marbles at the moment and they've never had a better chance to shut the door on "D".

Just being more honest and forthcoming with their customers would be a start. It won't be easy because of years of deception but if Dish could convince customers that they really are committed to:

1. Raising the quality bar back up for HD.
2. Insuring every single Dish customer will have access to the HD versions of the major networks with HD DNS now and HD LiLs within a year.
3. Dedicating all available resources to making the 211 & 622 the best, most reliable receivers on the market.
4. Improving customer service.

They really do all this and they'd sew up the market. But they won't because that would take far-sighted vision and Dish's has always been to near-sighted.

A truly excellent post and basically hit the nail on the head

 

[waltinvt]

Thank you for the kind words. This is a case where I wish I hadn't hit the nail quite so well but as time goes on, things are looking worse instead of better.

I expect more costly programming / hardware upgrade senerios to materialize soon and in fact (and I admit I'm stretching a bit here), wouldn't be surprised if more Dish receivers starting to act up too.

 

[FunkeeC]

No changes to report to any of the resolutions or bitrates really.

All 720p channels are sent native.

DiscoveryHD, HBO-HD, SHO-HD, HDNet, HDNet Movies, TNT HD, and Universal-HD are sent natively 1920x1080i. The HDPPV (which includes all the nfl, nhl, nba, event ch) channel is 1920x1080 as well.

Voom and the HD local channels are another story. Voom is still 1280x1080i. HD Locals are 720p for fox and abc, 1440x1080i for nbc and cbs.

Supposedly we are still waiting for fiber upgrades before voom will go to 1920x1080i. We'll see about that. So far no comment from dish about CBS and NBC downres'ing.

I have a question, how is the b/w diference between ESPN , ESPN2 HD and TNT HD. I mainly watch sports in HD, and TNT HD pixilates horribly when watching basketball when there is much movement. However, the ESPN channels look great no matter what sport. Noticed the NBA HD channels also look similar to TNT HD, as they have pretty bad pixilation. I'm assuming this is a bandwidth issue.

 

[JohnL]

The dish 211 does not even have an option to set for 1040P so even your local ota's are HD lite.

1040P, where did you get the Idea that 1040p was a standard or the THE standard for HD.

720p and 1080i are the only HD Formats that are being used now. 1080P is a VERY LONG way off as a format that ANY Broadcaster is going to use.

John