Is R5000HD still the best way to record shows to PC? (1 Viewer)

theinv

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Family
Jun 5, 2007
55
0
hi

The R5000HD was available many years ago. Is it still the best way to record shows to PC? Any other better options available?

Thanks.
 

pendragon

SatelliteGuys Pro
Oct 13, 2008
1,100
63
There is more than one answer to this question. I can't compare ease of use, but out of the box the R5000 UI is very basic, almost to the point of frustration. But it integrates well with SageTV and this makes that a nearly perfect experience. Whether Hauppauge's box is better is something I will have to leave to those who use it.

From a purely technical viewpoint, the R5000 is the best solution. It records the virgin transport stream from the provider exactly. The Hauppauge records the component video outputs. This means at the very minimum you gain an additional generation of compression, which can only degrade the video. But the transport stream also has to navigate through the receiver's video decoders and suffer a conversion to analog and then a conversion back to digital. All of these steps further degrade the quality of the video. Whether or not you notice or care is another matter.
 

dfergie

Proud Staff Member
Staff member
HERE TO HELP YOU!
There is more than one answer to this question. I can't compare ease of use, but out of the box the R5000 UI is very basic, almost to the point of frustration. But it integrates well with SageTV and this makes that a nearly perfect experience. Whether Hauppauge's box is better is something I will have to leave to those who use it.

From a purely technical viewpoint, the R5000 is the best solution. It records the virgin transport stream from the provider exactly. The Hauppauge records the component video outputs. This means at the very minimum you gain an additional generation of compression, which can only degrade the video. But the transport stream also has to navigate through the receiver's video decoders and suffer a conversion to analog and then a conversion back to digital. All of these steps further degrade the quality of the video. Whether or not you notice or care is another matter.
Very true, but you will have to send your box off to have the R5000 installed.
 

Timpanogos

SatelliteGuys Family
Dec 13, 2004
100
13
Actually, the Hauppauge 1212 is very very close to Blu-ray on my projector system. It is excellent. Yes, I know digital to analog to digital, but hell it looks GOOD. (12 terabytes worth and counting...)
 

dfergie

Proud Staff Member
Staff member
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Actually, the Hauppauge 1212 is very very close to Blu-ray on my projector system. It is excellent. Yes, I know digital to analog to digital, but hell it looks GOOD. (12 terabytes worth and counting...)
Makes good Blu-rays (with other software) and looks very good in both my HT and BT 73" & 120+" (720p FPTV pj's, soon to add a 1080p) but straight from the souce would be even better... :)
 

theinv

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Family
Jun 5, 2007
55
0
Thanks everyone.


I am leaning toward the R5000HD for now, but may get the Hauppauge HD-DVR sometime in the future since I want to be able to record multiple shows at the same time.

I only record SD shows and I have a few more questions:


1. Does the dishnetwork broadcast SD programs in MPG or mp4? If they are in MPG, the R5000HD may have slightly disadvantage for me since it records original MPG stream. I need to do extra work to convert them to mp4 to reduce the file size.

2. For the hauppauge hd dvr, if I record SD shows at 720p, will it have better quality than the original 480p source?


3. Are there any software out there that can edit mp4/mkv files directly without re-encoding? Just want an easy way to cut/remove commercials, join multiple clips.
 

tritron

SatelliteGuys Family
Jun 14, 2009
49
7
Denver, co
You could make your own dvr. mythtv supports mythtv hauppauge hd pvr amd there are other options to record dish with valid sub.
I belive there is card that capures hdmi output.
 

pendragon

SatelliteGuys Pro
Oct 13, 2008
1,100
63
I only record SD shows and I have a few more questions:

Dish Network SD is often so low in quality that I doubt there will be much difference in quality, whatever option you choose. Heck, a 20 year old VCR would probably do it justice.

Does the dishnetwork broadcast SD programs in MPG or mp4? If they are in MPG, the R5000HD may have slightly disadvantage for me since it records original MPG stream. I need to do extra work to convert them to mp4 to reduce the file size.

If you're fully on the Eastern Arc (61.5W, 72.7W, 77W), you are getting SD and HD in H.264. Otherwise SD will be in MPEG-2 and HD in H.264.

For the hauppauge hd dvr, if I record SD shows at 720p, will it have better quality than the original 480p source?

No, once Dish compresses the video, it's all over.

Are there any software out there that can edit mp4/mkv files directly without re-encoding? Just want an easy way to cut/remove commercials, join multiple clips.

Check out the new V4 of VideoReDo Suite. It's still in pre-release form, but you can download, try it and buy it if you want. It still seems to have bugs on the H.264 side, but it's getting close and this company will likely get it under control.
 

BuddyBoy

SatelliteGuys Pro
Apr 13, 2006
503
0
SF Bay Area
Check out the new V4 of VideoReDo Suite. It's still in pre-release form, but you can download, try it and buy it if you want. It still seems to have bugs on the H.264 side, but it's getting close and this company will likely get it under control.

The pre-release version is working great for me with files captured by my R5000. I used to use TSPE for H.264-encoded content, but can edit far more quickly with VRD TV Suite.

If you have an mkv you need to remux your streams into an MPEG-2 TS in order to edit it with VRD TV Suite 4. It doesn't currently have mkv support.
 

pendragon

SatelliteGuys Pro
Oct 13, 2008
1,100
63
The pre-release version is working great for me with files captured by my R5000. I used to use TSPE for H.264-encoded content, but can edit far more quickly with VRD TV Suite.

If you have an mkv you need to remux your streams into an MPEG-2 TS in order to edit it with VRD TV Suite 4. It doesn't currently have mkv support.

All my R5000 H.264 video is TS. V4 seems to work for trimming off the starts and ends of such files, but when I intercut it's a disaster. Others are having problems and I got VRD to admit today on their forum that editing Dish H.264 doesn't work properly. They said it will take them 'few weeks' to fix as the issues are 'quite complex'.
 

BuddyBoy

SatelliteGuys Pro
Apr 13, 2006
503
0
SF Bay Area
All my R5000 H.264 video is TS. V4 seems to work for trimming off the starts and ends of such files, but when I intercut it's a disaster. Others are having problems and I got VRD to admit today on their forum that editing Dish H.264 doesn't work properly. They said it will take them 'few weeks' to fix as the issues are 'quite complex'.

Is this only an issue when pulling pieces together from separate recordings?

I wonder if the problem is due to confusion over time stamps. Have you tried taking your bad recording and generating all new PTS in TSPE (not sure VRD has this feature), or remuxing into an mkv?
 

pendragon

SatelliteGuys Pro
Oct 13, 2008
1,100
63
Is this only an issue when pulling pieces together from separate recordings?

That's what I'm trying to do, but I tried editing within a recording and still had problems. Some codecs are not as sensitive to this as others and it makes a difference where one cuts. I'm speculating, but on the surface it seems V4 gets completely confused and spits out B & P frames that are not consistent across the edit point. This throws the codecs into a tizzy. When one of the cuts is on an I-frame, things are a little better but still messed up. A number of people are seeing this, and not just on DN recordings. The folks at VRD apparently are very well aware of the problem and it sounds to be a real headache to fix. H.264 is a lot more complex than MPEG-2.
 

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