You are right as for the 9 courses, we WON'T know but there is still plenty of space on the disc. It's not MS creating the content, it's EA creating it. MS just distributes through Marketplace and pays EA for it while taking a percentage. They both end up making money from us. Look closely at the game and notice the landscaping detail. I will be willing to bet that you will see the same tree more than once. If they went as far to detail every tree then I doubt the game would even fit on BluRay and would take years to code and develop.
Joesp and HPMan this thread is for you
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You are right as for the 9 courses, we WON'T know but there is still plenty of space on the disc. It's not MS creating the content, it's EA creating it. MS just distributes through Marketplace and pays EA for it while taking a percentage. They both end up making money from us. Look closely at the game and notice the landscaping detail. I will be willing to bet that you will see the same tree more than once. If they went as far to detail every tree then I doubt the game would even fit on BluRay and would take years to code and develop.
I didn't know that MS said that. I find it hard to believe they will stick with it. We discussed using storage space. If Madden starts using HiDef flybys of all of the stadiums, and crowds, and whatever on the PS3 with BR, 360 can't stick with dual layer DVD, or the quality difference between the two systems will become enormous.
Then all of us who have 360's now are screwed. I wouldn't put it past them, but the PR would be horrible on something like this
I would never say that they would use different trees on each course. I agree and am 100% sure that this is the case, but it's not about using trees over and over. I'm just trying to make the point that games are already filling DVD9. RFoM final version took 16GB Bluray, thats after they utilized some new compression or took some stuff out b/c it had been 22 GB. I don't really know what else to say except, only time will tell.
I have been under the impression that ps3 will be more powerful both in terms of cpu and gpu.
PS3
CPU: Cell Processor
PowerPC-base Core @3.2GHz
1 VMX vector unit per core
512KB L2 cache
7 x SPE @3.2GHz
7 x 128b 128 SIMD GPRs
7 x 256KB SRAM for SPE
* 1 of 8 SPEs reserved for redundancy
Total floating point performance: 218 GFLOPS
GPU: RSX @550MHz
1.8 TFLOPS floating point performance
Full HD (up to 1080p) x 2 channels
Multi-way programmable parallel floating point shader pipelines
Sound:
Dolby 5.1ch, DTS, LPCM, etc. (Cell-based processing)
Memory:
256MB XDR Main RAM @3.2GHz
256MB GDDR3 VRAM @700MHz
System Bandwidth:
Main RAM -- 25.6GB/s
VRAM -- 22.4GB/s
RSX -- 20GB/s (write) + 15GB/s (read)
SB -- 2.5GB/s (write) + 2.5GB/s (read)
System Floating Point Performance:
2 TFLOPS
Xbox 360
Custom IBM PowerPC-based CPU
• Three symmetrical cores running at 3.2 GHz each
• Two hardware threads per core; six hardware threads total
• VMX-128 vector unit per core; three total
• 128 VMX-128 registers per hardware thread
• 1 MB L2 cache
CPU Game Math Performance
• 9 billion dot product operations per second
Custom ATI Graphics Processor
• 500MHz processor
• 10 MB of embedded DRAM
• 48-way parallel floating-point dynamically scheduled shader pipelines
• Unified shader architecture
Polygon Performance
• 500 million triangles per second
Pixel Fill Rate
• 16 gigasamples per second fill rate using 4x MSAA
Shader Performance
• 48 billion shader operations per second
Memory
• 512 MB of GDDR3 RAM
• 700 MHz of DDR
• Unified memory architecture
Memory Bandwidth • 22.4 GB/s memory interface bus bandwidth
• 256 GB/s memory bandwidth to EDRAM
• 21.6 GB/s front-side bus
Overall System Floating-Point Performance
• 1 teraflop
PS3
CPU: Cell Processor
PowerPC-base Core @3.2GHz
1 VMX vector unit per core
512KB L2 cache
7 x SPE @3.2GHz
7 x 128b 128 SIMD GPRs
7 x 256KB SRAM for SPE
* 1 of 8 SPEs reserved for redundancy
Total floating point performance: 218 GFLOPS
GPU: RSX @550MHz
1.8 TFLOPS floating point performance
Full HD (up to 1080p) x 2 channels
Multi-way programmable parallel floating point shader pipelines
Sound:
Dolby 5.1ch, DTS, LPCM, etc. (Cell-based processing)
Memory:
256MB XDR Main RAM @3.2GHz
256MB GDDR3 VRAM @700MHz
System Bandwidth:
Main RAM -- 25.6GB/s
VRAM -- 22.4GB/s
RSX -- 20GB/s (write) + 15GB/s (read)
SB -- 2.5GB/s (write) + 2.5GB/s (read)
System Floating Point Performance:
2 TFLOPS
Xbox 360
Custom IBM PowerPC-based CPU
• Three symmetrical cores running at 3.2 GHz each
• Two hardware threads per core; six hardware threads total
• VMX-128 vector unit per core; three total
• 128 VMX-128 registers per hardware thread
• 1 MB L2 cache
CPU Game Math Performance
• 9 billion dot product operations per second
Custom ATI Graphics Processor
• 500MHz processor
• 10 MB of embedded DRAM
• 48-way parallel floating-point dynamically scheduled shader pipelines
• Unified shader architecture
Polygon Performance
• 500 million triangles per second
Pixel Fill Rate
• 16 gigasamples per second fill rate using 4x MSAA
Shader Performance
• 48 billion shader operations per second
Memory
• 512 MB of GDDR3 RAM
• 700 MHz of DDR
• Unified memory architecture
Memory Bandwidth • 22.4 GB/s memory interface bus bandwidth
• 256 GB/s memory bandwidth to EDRAM
• 21.6 GB/s front-side bus
Overall System Floating-Point Performance
• 1 teraflop
The biggest difference is in the cpu power. 7 true cores for ps3 vs 6 hyperthreaded cores for xbox 360. This is why the ps3 has twice the floating point performance. From pcguide.com: intensive floating point applications, such as spreadsheets and some graphics programs and games, make heavy use of the processor's floating point.
Ps3 will have twice the fpu power. That seems to me like quite a difference. Think massive games. Dead Rising times two maybe in terms of characters on the screen. Maybe more because of the overall set up.
However it seems like the actual gpu power is similar. The ps3 is slightly more powerful but both have a great hardware system for driving advanced grafix. Grafix are a subjective preference and less important than most people think(world of warcraft vs everquest 2). Many a game has been felled by someone's desire for realism.
PS3 will be able to have better draw distances and will most likely be a hair sharper. The game I am thinking of is Oblivion. How much better could it look? But it could play slightly better. This advantage will be fleshed out as more games are developed specifically for the ps3 cell processor. Games which will almost certainly be exclusive.
Ps3 will have twice the fpu power. That seems to me like quite a difference. Think massive games. Dead Rising times two maybe in terms of characters on the screen. Maybe more because of the overall set up.
However it seems like the actual gpu power is similar. The ps3 is slightly more powerful but both have a great hardware system for driving advanced grafix. Grafix are a subjective preference and less important than most people think(world of warcraft vs everquest 2). Many a game has been felled by someone's desire for realism.
PS3 will be able to have better draw distances and will most likely be a hair sharper. The game I am thinking of is Oblivion. How much better could it look? But it could play slightly better. This advantage will be fleshed out as more games are developed specifically for the ps3 cell processor. Games which will almost certainly be exclusive.
I think this has been the best thread so far, I will post more when I get home tonight but thank you guys for talking it out, and helping me understand the diffrence because right now, I have no clue (well I have a better grasp!)
Another thing to consider is that the X360 is almost one year old. Watching the tendency for consoles over the past years, the companies will be releasing a new console every 3 years. So my point is that Blue Ray is a superior format in terms of capacity, but do we really need it now? Do we really need HDDVD now? Cinematics are good but only the first time, after that I will skip it, besides I don't play with the cinematics.
I'll really like the fact that I can own all the consoles availabe, but the costs are going through the roof. I upgraded my PC to a dual core X2 Ahtlon with dual PCiexp cards, that upgrade besides giving me the option to play additional games on my PC, help to have a better performance on another applications like editing, so I can live with that. I don't think I can afford the PS3(at least my wife will give hell, because she knows the estimated price tag.) And knowing me being an ungratefull poor man, I'll like the $600 unit
.
My final point is the Free Online Play. Who will cover the higher costs to keep up and running this monster process. I mean servers, Isps, Tech Support, ect, ect. ect. Xbox live is just giving lessons to anyone outhere of how this is done. Sure I pay $60, but that is for a year or $5 monthly(at least that's what I paid last June) for the option to take games to another level. Halo 2 is the best example for this, my 14 year old son plays it almost everyday.
Always remember that the fun factor is what really sell the games, if not why I still play, Galaca, MS Pacman, Dig Dug and a bunch of old school games.
Take care people..
Tom
I'll really like the fact that I can own all the consoles availabe, but the costs are going through the roof. I upgraded my PC to a dual core X2 Ahtlon with dual PCiexp cards, that upgrade besides giving me the option to play additional games on my PC, help to have a better performance on another applications like editing, so I can live with that. I don't think I can afford the PS3(at least my wife will give hell, because she knows the estimated price tag.) And knowing me being an ungratefull poor man, I'll like the $600 unit
.My final point is the Free Online Play. Who will cover the higher costs to keep up and running this monster process. I mean servers, Isps, Tech Support, ect, ect. ect. Xbox live is just giving lessons to anyone outhere of how this is done. Sure I pay $60, but that is for a year or $5 monthly(at least that's what I paid last June) for the option to take games to another level. Halo 2 is the best example for this, my 14 year old son plays it almost everyday.
Always remember that the fun factor is what really sell the games, if not why I still play, Galaca, MS Pacman, Dig Dug and a bunch of old school games.
Take care people..
Tom
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you know I wonder this, just to throw it in there, what is the difference between the two, other then bigger hard drive(if I dont download ps1 or ps2 games I shouldnt need it) and the memory stick/card reader....which what is that useful for?
Honestly, there is not much difference b/t the two. The 100 extra is not justification for what you get extra. Wifi, 4o extra GB's, and the card readers. The card readers can be used if you have a digi cam and want to see the pictures on the PS3. the PS3 has an AMAZING slideshow feature that actually frames your photographs and show negatives as well. It is very intuitive.
PS. The only console that lasted 3 years was the 360. Gamecube released 2001 PS2 release in 2000. sony has stated in several interviews that their console is planned for 5-10 years for each generation. So, we can put that in the books until proabably 2012-2013.
With consoles that are closer, more and more to a PC, I don't think that a company will hold a product for 5-10 years. For this same reason M$ entered the console market, because a that time Sony was falling behind, they saw the oportunnity to add Dolby Digital and 480P resolution to all games. Actually those were the two main reason for me to buy an Xbox. They even got several games to be 720P others to 1080i.
As for Nintendo, they realized too late that more and more adults were into games. That's why all of the sudden they drop their non violence policy. So they tried to stay wiht the gamecube as long as they could.
Sony well they announced the Ps3 a long time ago, but we all know why it has taken so long to release the PS3.
As for Nintendo, they realized too late that more and more adults were into games. That's why all of the sudden they drop their non violence policy. So they tried to stay wiht the gamecube as long as they could.
Sony well they announced the Ps3 a long time ago, but we all know why it has taken so long to release the PS3.
My name in lights -- oh the blare!!
Seriously, the PS3 should be better than the XBOX360 because it came out later. Debate about including the BluRay drive is just that debate. Until the unit comes out we will really not know how well the drive does and how good the games look
However, this is not the question on everyone's mind. There is a bottom line here and as usual it is everyone's wallet. We always vote with our wallets. When Sony came out and announced the price everyone cried out. Heck, I had to check my blood pressure. But here it is in a nutshell most everyone have stated that when the PS3 comes down in price you 'might' get one. So, at least in this reguard, we are in agreement -- the initial price is high for a console. But does this spell doom? Maybe if everyone else is selling at $199 but they are not so it becomes a question of purchasing now or waiting for the price to drop.
Now as for the graphics, both the 360 and PS3 are designed for HD so you know they are going to look good. Depending on the programmer one system or the other will shine on a particular game. Both have the ability to do great graphics. It is the programmers who have to get the potential out of the system for us to enjoy great gamming. Some of the PS3 launch titles are going to look outstanding. I think some of the 360 launch titles (that were really 720p) look pretty good too. Now GOW is coming out and it does look hot. So does Resistance on the PS3. Who cares if on one the textures are better and on the other the character models are better. It is the overall gaming experiance and how well we enjoy these titles.
On the superiority note, the Cell is an unknown. With 7 SPE's each with their own 256k cache along with the main CPU, RSX and the 256 XDR and 256 GGDR there seems to be more memory to play with then the 512k being used by both the CPU and GPU in the 360. Does that mean one has an advantage over the other? Once again this falls on the programmers. The Cell is a parallel processor and parallel processing with multiple CPUS (SPEs) is something that programmers are just now beginning to tap. So we really cannot say that either system really has a leg up in the hardware notch. And we cannot brag about how many 360 games are out because it has been out a year and we are just now getting any titles that we all can agree might make someone really want the system.
So that leaves us with the 360 out and great games coming for it. The PS3 coming and great games coming for that platform. The real question once again goes back to the one I originally stated. How big is your wallet?
Seriously, the PS3 should be better than the XBOX360 because it came out later. Debate about including the BluRay drive is just that debate. Until the unit comes out we will really not know how well the drive does and how good the games look
However, this is not the question on everyone's mind. There is a bottom line here and as usual it is everyone's wallet. We always vote with our wallets. When Sony came out and announced the price everyone cried out. Heck, I had to check my blood pressure. But here it is in a nutshell most everyone have stated that when the PS3 comes down in price you 'might' get one. So, at least in this reguard, we are in agreement -- the initial price is high for a console. But does this spell doom? Maybe if everyone else is selling at $199 but they are not so it becomes a question of purchasing now or waiting for the price to drop.
Now as for the graphics, both the 360 and PS3 are designed for HD so you know they are going to look good. Depending on the programmer one system or the other will shine on a particular game. Both have the ability to do great graphics. It is the programmers who have to get the potential out of the system for us to enjoy great gamming. Some of the PS3 launch titles are going to look outstanding. I think some of the 360 launch titles (that were really 720p) look pretty good too. Now GOW is coming out and it does look hot. So does Resistance on the PS3. Who cares if on one the textures are better and on the other the character models are better. It is the overall gaming experiance and how well we enjoy these titles.
On the superiority note, the Cell is an unknown. With 7 SPE's each with their own 256k cache along with the main CPU, RSX and the 256 XDR and 256 GGDR there seems to be more memory to play with then the 512k being used by both the CPU and GPU in the 360. Does that mean one has an advantage over the other? Once again this falls on the programmers. The Cell is a parallel processor and parallel processing with multiple CPUS (SPEs) is something that programmers are just now beginning to tap. So we really cannot say that either system really has a leg up in the hardware notch. And we cannot brag about how many 360 games are out because it has been out a year and we are just now getting any titles that we all can agree might make someone really want the system.
So that leaves us with the 360 out and great games coming for it. The PS3 coming and great games coming for that platform. The real question once again goes back to the one I originally stated. How big is your wallet?
BEEP.... If that were the case the HR20 MPEG4 HD DVR should be a lot better then the Dish 622, but its not, it dont even have its Over The Air Features working.
I feel the Playstation 3 will be the same way out of the gate (I am not saying it will not improve over time)
A number of programmers are not going to take advantage of many of the PS3 features as they look at ease when programming a game for cross platform use.
Again this will improve over time as programmers begin to adapt but it will be slow out of the gate. (Look at Madden 06 for XBOX360 how terrible it was, and look at Madden 07, what a difference!)
A side note, I am purchasing a BlueRay player for $499 and adding $100 to it to get a next gen gaming machine. Seems like a good purchase to me! Can I do that with a HD-DVD drive and still get a 60gb hard drive, wireless ethernet and HDMI?
I drive a Toyota Avalon 2005 , the top model fully loaded. Some folks will buy the Lexus for another $10,000. They think they got a better deal -- did they? Both cars a basically the same and do the same thing.
In the grand scheem of things if you are worring about $100 you have more problems then money to worry about.
I drive a Toyota Avalon 2005 , the top model fully loaded. Some folks will buy the Lexus for another $10,000. They think they got a better deal -- did they? Both cars a basically the same and do the same thing.
In the grand scheem of things if you are worring about $100 you have more problems then money to worry about.
can I just hook up a usb card reader later on? or will I be able to upgrade the Ps3 if I wanted?
Scott the HR20, has gotten worse for me over time, ALOT worse, I have reset, I have done everything I can, I have signals as high as 98, with my lowest being 75 (on the new sat I believe). My recordings when I play them back now ask me to delete, I cant fast forward or rewind on some channels...what is going on with directv
With over 6,000 posts here and 5,000 posts at AVS, that is without a doubt THE stupidest assumption I have ever seen.
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Not really Vurbano, it is possible simply because they waited for things like the BluRay and the HDMI 1.3. There are other things too, however, if one is going to buy the PS3 there should be something new that the 360 does not have that would make it worth the differance. Of course Mr M$ Vurbano, for you that does not mean a thing. Then don't buy one. No body cares if you don't purchase one and if you do not like it. I guareentee that it won't hurt my feelings if you don't get one.
well just to kinda update this thread, I put 10 dollars down on resistance fall of man, I will be picking that up in less then a month, I just need to get ahold of Ps3. I have heard that they are releasing so about 400,000 on the 17th, and then 100,000 every week after that.
the practice of assuming something is better because it is newer is idiotic. Stay on topic, this has nothing to do with what I may or may not buy.Not really Vurbano, it is possible simply because they waited for things like the BluRay and the HDMI 1.3. There are other things too, however, if one is going to buy the PS3 there should be something new that the 360 does not have that would make it worth the differance. Of course Mr M$ Vurbano, for you that does not mean a thing. Then don't buy one. No body cares if you don't purchase one and if you do not like it. I guareentee that it won't hurt my feelings if you don't get one.
