Joey 2.0 or 4K vs. C61K

joegr

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I wouldn't call it a "Hopper 3" problem since I had the same issues with my VIP722Ks before I upgraded. It is definitely a dish network problem since they select the provider of the guide info, and it's up to them to require it to be correct, if they care.
 
patmurphey

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I wouldn't call it a "Hopper 3" problem since I had the same issues with my VIP722Ks before I upgraded. It is definitely a dish network problem since they select the provider of the guide info, and it's up to them to require it to be correct, if they care.

My point, exactly...
 
Foxbat

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I'm probably the least happiest with my 4K Joey since it has some weird playback issues watching Live TV where the screen goes black and the only way to get the program back is to change to another channel and back. It happens only during commercial breaks and I think it may be tied to the Local TV Ad insert "feature" failing. It doesn't come back from this black screen unless I change the channel at which point I've lost the ability to skip back to catch what I missed. I don't see this on the Hopper 3 itself, just the 4K Joey.

Add to that the problems with trying to watch actual 4K programming (see the BBC America Planet Earth II in 4K thread) and the lack of Netflix over a year after launch and I'd wait for Dish to release the 4K Joey 2.0...
(edit: oh, yeah, and no PiP, either, even though it's in the GUI)
 
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ncted

ncted

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I'm probably the least happiest with my 4K Joey since it has some weird playback issues watching Live TV where the screen goes black and the only way to get the program back is to change to another channel and back. It happens only during commercial breaks and I think it may be tied to the Local TV Ad insert "feature" failing. It doesn't come back from this black screen unless I change the channel at which point I've lost the ability to skip back to catch what I missed. I don't see this on the Hopper 3 itself, just the 4K Joey.

Add to that the problems with trying to watch actual 4K programming (see the BBC America Planet Earth II in 4K thread) and the lack of Netflix over a year after launch and I'd wait for Dish to release the 4K Joey 2.0...
(edit: oh, yeah, and no PiP, either, even though it's in the GUI)

So, just to confirm, this is only on the 4K Joey and not the Joey 2.0?
 
Scott Greczkowski

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I just wish Dish would Offer YES Network even if I had to pay an RSN fee.
They offer it on Sling, but Its ridiculous that they don't have something in place for it on the Satellite service.

Even Comcast settled a deal to carry YES again.
I dont understand why they don't even their own Sling TV carries Yes!
 
Foxbat

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So, just to confirm, this is only on the 4K Joey and not the Joey 2.0?
Sorry for the delay, but yes, the 4K Joey has neither Netflix nor Picture-in-Picture. It's incredibly infuriating to be reminded of it in the EPG with the "Ad" at the bottom saying "Press |> to start Netflix" and when you do, the pop-up appears saying "Netflix is coming soon".

It's been like that for a year. I can't speak to what the the Joey 2 has as I never had one; I went straight fro the ViP receivers to the Hopper 3 and the 4K Joey.
 
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dishrich

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I dont understand why they don't even their own Sling TV carries Yes!

Couple guesses:
- DISH already conceded the NYC RSN market a long time ago; at this stage & with a dwindling sub base, exactly what benefit WOULD they even get by adding it...other than (really) unnecessary added expenses, for a (very) few added subs at best. Subs that want NYC RSN's already left that boat & are NOT coming back for (only) 1 with a relatively limited viewer base.

- Even with Flex Pak, DISH is still NOT really a "pick & choose" programming service, hence again, why go through the hassle of (now starting) an RSN charge for only the NYC market, for ONE channel.
(although quite honestly, SLING really isn't all THAT much choice, either...since non-sports viewers STILL have to fork out $$$ to have the pricey ESPN/2 as part of a required base prog pkg!)
When someone comes out with "cable channel" service where you DON'T have to (indirectly) pay for "mainstream sports-only" channels, then come talk to me. ;)
 
Troch77

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Couple guesses:
- DISH already conceded the NYC RSN market a long time ago; at this stage & with a dwindling sub base, exactly what benefit WOULD they even get by adding it...other than (really) unnecessary added expenses, for a (very) few added subs at best. Subs that want NYC RSN's already left that boat & are NOT coming back for (only) 1 with a relatively limited viewer base.

- Even with Flex Pak, DISH is still NOT really a "pick & choose" programming service, hence again, why go through the hassle of (now starting) an RSN charge for only the NYC market, for ONE channel.
(although quite honestly, SLING really isn't all THAT much choice, either...since non-sports viewers STILL have to fork out $$$ to have the pricey ESPN/2 as part of a required base prog pkg!)
When someone comes out with "cable channel" service where you DON'T have to (indirectly) pay for "mainstream sports-only" channels, then come talk to me. ;)
If you want to add more subs in the NY market which is a Huge market, You need SNY and YES.

And Your right, most whom care tremendously about SNY and YES have left.
But that doesn't mean they wouldn't come back.
 
D

dishrich

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And Your right, most whom care tremendously about SNY and YES have left.
But that doesn't mean they wouldn't come back.

We'll have to agree to disagree...again, that boat sailed away LONG time ago. If DISH themselves thought otherwise, they would have already done something, so if nothing else, they could stop their overall bleeding sub base.

Even if DISH decided they wanted to add ALL the NYC RSN's TOMORROW, there is NO way they'll can do that, unless they charge an RSN fee. So with those added costs, the price diff between them & the other competition (cable, FiOS, D*, etc.) will NOT be that great, if at all...so unless subs are looking SPECIFICALLY at things like the H3, & some pretty minor prog differences, DISH will NEVER get a dearth of subs to come back in this market - period!
 
ncted

ncted

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Couple guesses:
- DISH already conceded the NYC RSN market a long time ago; at this stage & with a dwindling sub base, exactly what benefit WOULD they even get by adding it...other than (really) unnecessary added expenses, for a (very) few added subs at best. Subs that want NYC RSN's already left that boat & are NOT coming back for (only) 1 with a relatively limited viewer base.

- Even with Flex Pak, DISH is still NOT really a "pick & choose" programming service, hence again, why go through the hassle of (now starting) an RSN charge for only the NYC market, for ONE channel.
(although quite honestly, SLING really isn't all THAT much choice, either...since non-sports viewers STILL have to fork out $$$ to have the pricey ESPN/2 as part of a required base prog pkg!)
When someone comes out with "cable channel" service where you DON'T have to (indirectly) pay for "mainstream sports-only" channels, then come talk to me. ;)

Not sure exactly what you mean by indirectly, but if I am paying for mainstream sports channels on the DirecTV Select package, I am not sure what they are. (MAVTV maybe?)
 
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docdaddy

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I move back to Dish from Directv last August; I had a Genie and a couple of the latest minis. I've got a Hopper 3 and two 4K Joeys.

As a direct comparison, we were blown away by how much faster the H3 and the 4K Joeys were compared to the Genie and Minis. There were times on the minis that I would press a button twice because I didn't think it accepted it the first time, due to the lag. With the Hopper 3 and 4K Joey, everything has been pretty instantaneous.

FWIW
 
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dishrich

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Not sure exactly what you mean by indirectly

In as having to pay for them as part of a (large) channel bundle...as opposed to being able to ONLY have to pay for them (at all) if I really wanted them...just like you ONLY pay for HBO, if you REALLY, ONLY want HBO.
 
Tampa8

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We'll have to agree to disagree...again, that boat sailed away LONG time ago. If DISH themselves thought otherwise, they would have already done something, so if nothing else, they could stop their overall bleeding sub base.

Even if DISH decided they wanted to add ALL the NYC RSN's TOMORROW, there is NO way they'll can do that, unless they charge an RSN fee. So with those added costs, the price diff between them & the other competition (cable, FiOS, D*, etc.) will NOT be that great, if at all...so unless subs are looking SPECIFICALLY at things like the H3, & some pretty minor prog differences, DISH will NEVER get a dearth of subs to come back in this market - period!

When DISH dropped (or never added) the NY RSN's I think it was a good guess then that DISH did not have enough subs there to warrant paying for the high cost. Charlie talked about they not only looked at the subs there, but also how many of that number they would lose over the RSN's. If the trend continues of les subs to traditional pay services the current RSN model will have to change. I bet we are going to see more cable providers start to decide not to carry an RSN when it becomes too expensive - or add even more surcharges, or find a way to do what DISH did with Flex. How's the Dodger RSN working out so far?
 
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DishSubLA

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I was wondering if anyone had any experience comparing the Joey 2.0 or 4k to the Directv C61k client. The C61k seems really slow after using Tivo Minis for a couple of years, especially trick play functionality. My recollection of the original Joey was it was similarly slow.

Anyone have any observations on how much better(or worse I suppose) the newer Joeys are?

Thanks,
Ted
For whatever reason, the Wireless Joey is an absolute DREAM: it is very responsive and functions as fast as if being at the DVR. I wonder if anyone can explain why the Wireless Joey is so robust compared to the sleepy, slow wired Joeys (4K Joey excepted).

Yes, the TiVo Min's are quite fast and I can only wish Dish's clients were as fast and responsive all the time as my Mini's are. FWIW, for all the speed of the Mini, it does lack features of the Dish Clients, most significantly a list of multiple RESUME points for EACH different DVR or client, and that can be VERY frustrating for me as some shows are watched my multiple people in multiple rooms. There are a few other things Mini's don't offer that the Dish Clients do that I would still choose the sluggish--even ANNOYING at times--Dish client over the Mini because at least the Dish client is just like the experience at the DVR except for PIP, but Joey 4K does have that and other Joeys can have multiple channels in the buffer allowing you to choose which channel to choose to monitor. Also further diminishig the TiVo Mini experience is the TRULY ANNOYING habit of how the Mini will DUMP the buffer of a live channel I was watching and lose the TV channel to full menu display if I dare go to TiVo Central to access timers ONEPass or To Do List or ANY other feature from Central. When I return to the channel, the Mini dumped the buffer of what I was watching in DELAY. THANKS Mini! Well, at least I can display the guide without losing live TV.

These things don't annoy too many TiVo users because they don't have another service to compare, just as Dish users would be shocked at how fast and responsive the Mini's can be if they did not have Mini's in their homes. It's just that being used to how I can do almost anything from the Joey and NOT have the buffer dumped, the things the Mini can't do just jumps out at me and I do get frustrated, but I do highly recommend the Mini's for TiVo users who systems can support it. It is a far better option--with cost savings--than having to get another TiVo DVR if one does not need an addtional TiVo DVR just for MRV. The Mini is by far the best accessory TiVo has ever offered.

My point is that as much as I LOVE the TiVo Mini's speed being AWSOME and puts other clients to SHAME, the Mini still falls short of, at least, Dish clients that are exactly like being at the DVR with more features except for PIP I mentioned above, and I would still end up choosing the slower Joey because in features or ability to do things while watching TV, it is what the Mini should be.
 
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ncted

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In as having to pay for them as part of a (large) channel bundle...as opposed to being able to ONLY have to pay for them (at all) if I really wanted them...just like you ONLY pay for HBO, if you REALLY, ONLY want HBO.

OK. Sounds like I am (probably) not paying for ESPN then.
 
ncted

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For whatever reason, the Wireless Joey is an absolute DREAM: it is very responsive and functions as fast as if being at the DVR. I wonder if anyone can explain why the Wireless Joey is so robust compared to the sleepy, slow wired Joeys (4K Joey excepted)..

Thanks for your detailed response. It is very helpful. I am also curious if anyone can explain why the wireless Joey would be more responsive than the wired ones, as that is not what I would expect. Perhaps there is a bigger buffer to compensate for the additional latency of the wireless connection?
 
Tampa8

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For whatever reason, the Wireless Joey is an absolute DREAM: it is very responsive and functions as fast as if being at the DVR. I wonder if anyone can explain why the Wireless Joey is so robust compared to the sleepy, slow wired Joeys (4K Joey excepted).

Yes, the TiVo Min's are quite fast and I can only wish Dish's clients were as fast and responsive all the time as my Mini's are. FWIW, for all the speed of the Mini, it does lack features of the Dish Clients, ............

Right on about the Tivo Mini. I use a Tivo for locals in Florida thereby needing just one DISH receiver with two tuners and an OTA tuner. The Mini is used in the bedroom and it works very well but your observations are spot on. Dumping the memory and not being able to access many things the TIVO has are annoying. But it is fast and has no ongoing fees after purchase. DISH did a great job with the wireless Joey. (My daughter has). Not using your Wifi system for it was an excellent way to go.
 
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DishSubLA

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Right on about the Tivo Mini. I use a Tivo for locals in Florida thereby needing just one DISH receiver with two tuners and an OTA tuner. The Mini is used in the bedroom and it works very well but your observations are spot on. Dumping the memory and not being able to access many things the TIVO has are annoying. But it is fast and has no ongoing fees after purchase. DISH did a great job with the wireless Joey. (My daughter has). Not using your Wifi system for it was an excellent way to go.
And to expand on your point, TiVo's insistance to use and only support MoCA for Mini is because a lot of people have pretty bad and poorly set-up WiFi along with old routers that heat up and even just crap out unable to handle the load. TiVo support even has the audacity to say Mini's wont work behind a network switch. TiVo will often find fault with a Mini only because it is behind a switch and tell people to connect it directly to the router--utter not practical for vast majority of people, and LOONEY advice--but what they really want is for your to ditch your LAN, especially WiFi, and "USE MoCA!!!!!" they say.

As to your point of satellite setting things up, Both Dish and DirecTV have techs to go to homes and set up everything and not use the customers, usually, lousy LAN. The subnet seperates customers LAN traffic from the Hopper-Joey traffic. Also, Dish uses 5GHz for wireless Joeys; I would presume DirecTV does as well. Less crowded on that band.

One thing I would LOVE for the Mini, but I know that it aint EVER happening with Rovi slugs in charge, is if I could initiate a transfer from the Mini to its Host DVR. The way it is now, I have to go to the Host DVR itself and then go through the transfer so that I can watch it on the Mini in the preferred room--AND not I aint always in the mood to fire up my tablet and to into TiVo Online (plus it would probably be a faster process just to go to the other room in the house).

The reason I would love that is that I do have a couple of S3 TiVo's and I use them mostly as storage because the CC on those old boxes is solid back background with no options to change that. So, I often prefer to transfer recorded programs to an S4 where I have set the CC options for opaque background, and I will view it from the Mini. Having opaque background does make all the difference in the world to me. But that aint in Rovi's (not TiVo by name) crystal ball.
 
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ncted

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And to expand on your point, TiVo's insistance to use and only support MoCA for Mini is because a lot of people have pretty bad and poorly set-up WiFi along with old routers that heat up and even just crap out unable to handle the load. TiVo support even has the audacity to say Mini's wont work behind a network switch. TiVo will often find fault with a Mini only because it is behind a switch and tell people to connect it directly to the router--utter not practical for vast majority of people, and LOONEY advice--but what they really want is for your to ditch your LAN, especially WiFi, and "USE MoCA!!!!!" they say.

As to your point of satellite setting things up, Both Dish and DirecTV have techs to go to homes and set up everything and not use the customers, usually, lousy LAN. The subnet seperates customers LAN traffic from the Hopper-Joey traffic. Also, Dish uses 5GHz for wireless Joeys; I would presume DirecTV does as well. Less crowded on that band.

One thing I would LOVE for the Mini, but I know that it aint EVER happening with Rovi slugs in charge, is if I could initiate a transfer from the Mini to its Host DVR. The way it is now, I have to go to the Host DVR itself and then go through the transfer so that I can watch it on the Mini in the preferred room--AND not I aint always in the mood to fire up my tablet and to into TiVo Online (plus it would probably be a faster process just to go to the other room in the house).

The reason I would love that is that I do have a couple of S3 TiVo's and I use them mostly as storage because the CC on those old boxes is solid back background with no options to change that. So, I often prefer to transfer recorded programs to an S4 where I have set the CC options for opaque background, and I will view it from the Mini. Having opaque background does make all the difference in the world to me. But that aint in Rovi's (not TiVo by name) crystal ball.

I ran my Minis on my home ethernet network with no problems. The same applies to the Joey I used to have with my original Hopper. I never had any issues dealing with Tivo or Dish support. Go figure.

My Joey actually worked better after I switched it from MoCA to ethernet.
 
Tampa8

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I ran my Minis on my home ethernet network with no problems. The same applies to the Joey I used to have with my original Hopper. I never had any issues dealing with Tivo or Dish support. Go figure.

My Joey actually worked better after I switched it from MoCA to ethernet.

Here's the issue with that for the Mini. Obviously if you have wired Ethernet available where the mini is great. After that it is totally dependent on your situation.
First the Tivo must be Ethernet connected a Mini can not work with a Tivo connected wirelessly. Tivo can be by bridge if necessary. Mini can use a Bridge also - but that assumes where it is has a wireless signal. Powerline can work but is dependent on the sender and receiver being on the same electrical leg. I got lucky my two outlets are now and the powerline works flawlessly. First try resulted in a halting broken signal but luckily I had another plug within reach of the Router that was on the same leg.
And each bridge needed adds something like another $80 to $90+ to your cost, nearing the actual purchase of the Mini. If the Tivo needs one too that is upwards of $200.
 

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