Jumping Ship, Dish vs. Cable

[mike123abc]

There are plans by cable companies to eventually go all digital, but it will be a few years before the really cut back on the analog stations. Cablecard is becoming the new standard for "cable ready". I expect in 3-4 years it will be as common as regular cableready tuners are now. Cable companies need the analog station's bandwidth back. Each channel in analog can carry 2 full HD channels in digital.

I read an article recently (it was probably on this board) that one system in CA went all digital last year and 5 more (or so) will go all digital this year. It is only a matter of time before it spreads nationwide, but for now you should not lose your channels.

 

[dishrich]

I read an article recently (it was probably on this board) that one system in CA went all digital last year and 5 more (or so) will go all digital this year. It is only a matter of time before it spreads nationwide, but for now you should not lose your channels.

The system you are talking about was a Charter system in Long Beach - however, they did NOT take the analog channels down. They simply took them & are now simulcasting all of them digitally, as well as remaining in analog. This benefits ALL subs, because people that do not want boxes, or don't want to pay for it on ALL their TV's, get to keep their existing service, while people that DO want them get EVERYTHING digitally & more clearly than the analog-only subs. They view this as a DBS-killer, since they can now claim EVERYTHING is 100% digital, just like DBS is, while customers can let secondary TV's in the house remain on analog w/out extra box charges, like DBS makes you pay.

Eventually, the system WILL start removing analog channels little by little, to get back more bandwidth, but for right now, has not removed any yet.

Here's an article about this system:

http://www.cableworld.com/cgi/cw/show_mag.cgi?pub=cw&mon=122004&file=systemofthe.htm

For nearly six months, the 91 channels previously transmitted to them on an analog basic lineup have been delivered in digital, while non-digital customers continue to receive their analog service via what Charter calls a "simultrans," or simultaneous transmission process.

Charter won't say when simultrans delivery will be phased out, but it is safe to assume it will stay around as long as there's a significant analog base (or until that base gets so low that Charter will opt to give the analog holdouts digital boxes).

 

[mboy]

Well, I was ready to drop Dish and go back to Cablevision. Had three separate conversations with CSRs asking questions (these people were very helpful).

Then, they put me on with sales and I found the catch.

I currently have "Family" cable. Dish is on 2 sets and Cable is hooked directly to another 5. I have no cable boxes.

Cablevision just told me that if I upgrade to any iO service, I will need a box on every television to receive any channel higher than 14. In other words, I will LOSE all the "Family" channels on my other TVs (unless I pay for a converter box for each set - about $5/month each).

Major bummer.


This would increase the cost of cable by another $25/month, eliminating the expected savings. Plus, I would be forced into getting cable boxes where I don't want or have room for them (i.e. the kitchen).

So once you get digital from Cablevision, even the "family" channels become digital and require a set top box. And you cannot go back by "downgrading."

The sales rep told me "well, we are upgrading everyone to digital. Sooner or later you will have to get a set top box anyway to receive family channels." This is nuts - cable's biggest advantage (IMO) over satellite has always been the ability to connect to multiple TVs without needing a box (thus the term, "cable-ready" TV).

Just when Cable seems to be more competitive, they shoot themselves in the foot. Looks like Dish keeps my business by default. Back to Costco to see if they have any 921s yet.

--Joe

Why are you saying there is a catch?
Their is NO catch for me with same deal.

GUarantee you do not need the boxes to receive what you are getting now, even after IO upgrade.
Even @ same $$ as Dish, Cablebvision is a MUCH better deal then Dish right now AND for the forseable future.

 

[jrm21]

Strange. Everything I am being told and reading says that the box is NOT needed for the channels I currently get without a box. Cablevision was very clear on contradicting this.

I am currently checking this out with a neighbor. I am sure the folks here are correct and that the CSR is wrong.

Thanks for helping to clear this up. (Don't you think the CV people who get PAID to provide this information should be the ones to clear this up?)

--Joe

 

[gregmisc]

I guess I jumped into 921 and HD too fast without proper research. I should have looked for this site earlier to make an informed decision about HD using cable vs E*. Glad the 921 is still in the box and will cancel install today.
Thanks everyone!

Based on advise from a private message I didn't cancel the install and planned to try it out today and see for myself after the install this morning.

Well, they are not going to install today but rescheduled for 24 Jan as of today. Another day off waiting but I will have cable installed by then.

This is depressing! My only options for any HD here are satalite or cable; no OTA.

 

[mboy]

I can't pull any HD OTA either (with my 811) and I am 15 miles from the NYC towers.
Just can't seem to get them with my Silver sensor. External or roof mounted antenna not an option for me ( I rent), so local HD is a big thing for me.

 

[r royer]

I just ordered HD (the 811 and the pkg) from E, but my neighbor told me they are getting a "retiree" basic from cable, with HD that covers the main broadcasters (35 channels) at a total cost of $25 / month!
For me this sounds like a great deal (since those channels are what I watch anyway).
I have one concern though. If it's HD it would have to be digital right?

 

[korsjs]

they would give you a receiver to decode the channels and you would have to have a hdtv or hdtv ready tv.

 

[wmhjr]

To clear this up...

OK, I'll let you know. My SA8300HD(s) give me absolutely equal HD PQ and Dolby sound. Just on a lot more channels and on all locals except Fox at a lower investment and a lower cost.

Let me know you feedback about pic and Dolby sound that Dish Network have now.

 

[dont24]

What's stopping me from a 100% switch to Comcast is the DVR fees. That and no UHF remote. Right now I have DISH AEP + locals + HD package.
Hardware includes 501, 508, 510 and 811. For Comcast, I have the 6412. Use it for an HD-DVR solution. Comcast programming is basic 11.00 a month, which includes HD locals, plus the extra $4.95 to get package that includes inHD1 &2. If I were to switch to Comcast, top programming package, with 4 DVRs, the price is quite high . Maybe I'll call and see what they can do for me.

 

[wmhjr]

Hmmm. Interesting

My cost is actually cheaper even with the DVR fees. I was also AEP+locals+HD, and owned my own 921, 2 508's, and 510. Sound exactly like what you had in terms of cost. With Adelphia, even including the DVR fees I'm actuallyi paying less, and getting absolutely everything that's not ppv. All premiums, all HD, all locals (including in HD except Fox). It's also possible that it's cheaper because I'm factoring in that in either case I needed Adelphia Broadband, which is substantially cheaper if I get their digital cable service. Of course, if I also remove the extra premiums that I DIDN'T get with Dish, then the price difference grows even larger.

What's stopping me from a 100% switch to Comcast is the DVR fees. That and no UHF remote. Right now I have DISH AEP + locals + HD package.
Hardware includes 501, 508, 510 and 811. For Comcast, I have the 6412. Use it for an HD-DVR solution. Comcast programming is basic 11.00 a month, which includes HD locals, plus the extra $4.95 to get package that includes inHD1 &2. If I were to switch to Comcast, top programming package, with 4 DVRs, the price is quite high . Maybe I'll call and see what they can do for me.

 

[Bobby_M]

What's stopping me from a 100% switch to Comcast is the DVR fees. That and no UHF remote. Right now I have DISH AEP + locals + HD package.
Hardware includes 501, 508, 510 and 811. For Comcast, I have the 6412. Use it for an HD-DVR solution. Comcast programming is basic 11.00 a month, which includes HD locals, plus the extra $4.95 to get package that includes inHD1 &2. If I were to switch to Comcast, top programming package, with 4 DVRs, the price is quite high . Maybe I'll call and see what they can do for me.

I think the cable companies are very desperate to get satellite customers and they'll probably waive a few fees for the first year at minimum. No UHF remote? Not a deal breaker, just get something like the Terk LF-IRX for $30 shipped. That's what I just did.

Bobby

 

[jrm21]

Since this thread is one of the few places I received straight information, I wanted to follow-up on my experience.

I was a Dish customer for 5-6 years. I originally found this forum while looking for information on upgrading the the 921 DVR unit. The search led me to this thread, and put the idea into my head to do a real comparison of Dish vs. Cable.

I have several TVs and a "family basic" service is connected to most. Dish, with movie channels is connected to two sets (one of which had the HD package and receiver).

What I found is that I could install Cablevision "gold" (top level of programming), get a HD DVR, a 2nd digital box and leave all the other TVs as they were (with the basic analog cable package) and SAVE about $30/month (vs. a slightly lesser Dish package on 2 sets, plus cable on the other TVs). More channels, more HD, no equipment to buy - all for less.

Along the way, my cable company (Cablevision) tried to tell me that my non-STB sets would lose the "family" channels (VH-1, Cartoon Network, etc). As others pointed out to me in this thread, this is NOT true, which I can now confirm.

Note that I could have upgraded to Dish's "everything" package, and received an almost identical channel lineup to cable's "gold". Even with the extra monthly charges to add the other TVs, it would have been with $2/month the cost of the cable package. SO pricing (at least in my area) is virtually identical. Of course, with Dish there is an additional outlay for the receiver box. (Although, when I cancelled my Dish service, one of the offers they gave me was for free equipment upgrades - in addition to 3 free months of service).

The big thing for me was the HD channels. Right now, Cabelvision has Dish beat. While this may change, Dish's recent announcements doesn't lead me to believe they will catch up anytime soon.

One other nice benefit of switching to cable is picture quality. I have a Mits 65" hi-def rear projection. With Dish, the quality of SD channels was never that good. With cable, the 8500 cable box I have does an excellent job of upconverting SD to 480p. The results are noticeable better than I was getting with Dish. There is even some improvement when the S-video jack is used.

What works for others may be different. The monthly cost and programming was so close that it really came down to what _I_ wanted to watch. Someone with different viewing habits, different number of TVs, no desire for HD, etc. may find Dish or Direct is the better choice. There is definitely no one "right" answer.

Thanks again to everyone for their help in providing me correct information.

--Joe

 

[DVDDAD]

Well after having both the 921 (had it for a year now) and Cablevision's SA-8300HD box side by side both have their advantages and disadvantages. Dish's disadvantages are HD content only. I get much more HD content on CV. The SA-8300HD box is a klunker compared to the 921. The biggest pitfal is no 30-second skip ahead button, then very slow FF & RW speeds, and there is no easy way to change or format your picture (stretch, zoom, etc...). The SA-8300HD also does not have caller ID or a UHF remote and I have trouble changing channels unless it is pointed directly at the box.

What I've decided to do is downgrade my Dishnetwork package and eliminate the premium movie channels and keep Cablevision and go with their gold package. The 921 is superior for watching recoded sports events and network HD material (manily because of the 30-second skip ahead button) and use the CV box for HD recorded movies (no need to skip ahead or use FF or RW that often). If and when DN catches up with their HD content, then I'd consider reducing the CV package but would end up keeping it for the Mets & Knicks are only in HD on cable.