Kenny Rogers --- Cheater? YES/NO your opinion...

[Sean Mota]

So, are you saying he should not be pitching this well, because he hasn't previously ?

He pitched very well all season, except for about a 1-2 week stretch, 17-8 with a 3.42 era sounds like a pretty respectable year to me, so him winning is not a fluke thing this year

Jimbo,

we know you are a Detroit fan and you think we are attacking the Detroit Tigers Team. Well, I do not think that is in any way anyone's intention. The Detroit Tigers are a good team with or without Rogers. I personally do not believe they need Rogers to achieve what they had so far.

The conversation is about Rogers and how he was using something that was caught on video and it has been noted as a "substance". We all have opiniated that it did not look like "dirt" (as Roger suggested). Do I believe that Kenny Roger is a fluke in the Radar? Yes. He is. Before this year, the guy has been a dissarter in every post season game he ever saw the light of day. Nobody is saying that he did not the potential to pitch like Cyoung (all of the sudden) but everyone is saying look at the video and tell me if that does not look suspicious. It was not only Game2 of the WS but on the ALCS and other games during the regular season.

Some Tiger fans think it is normal but it is not. How would you feel if Jeff Weaver had done the same and had pitched a no-hitter in the WS against the Tigers with a strange substance in his hand? I think the question here is about the individual and how he could be possibly be cheating as there are signs that point to the same. The fact that LaRussa did not make a fuss about it... Well read his press conference and you will see that LaRussa could have made a scene and could have done it. He was just decided to take the high rode and let it go. Not because he did not think it was nothing on Roger's hand but because he did not want to taint a WS game.

 

[dantheman77]

read my previous post.
The Umpire cannot remove a player without the opposition asking for a player to be checked, it is not thier position to do that type of thing, they are suppose to be doing thier job, calling the game and they did, they cannot go out and point out a problem for the other team, if the other team does not notice it, the umps must let it go.

In this case the homer announcers made the call and they should be removed, none of this would have been noticed had FOX not brought it up.

The Yankees and A's didn't have a problem with Rogers ....

Bullsh!t!!! i will talk more about this tomorrow. i have been drinking( sad but ture) but you are wrong, i will back it up tomorrow. this is really pissing me off, rogers is a cheating, lying SOB!! he has always beem known as a dick, and this backs it up. jimbo, i have read your post before and it seams like you are a good guy, but as a fan of the tigers your judgement is clouded( as mine woul be to if the foot was in the other shoe, and i was not drunk! lol) i like u jimbo, well your post, i dont know you but you seem ok. and one more thing, for now, you did not say, rogers that CHEATING< LYING FOUL MOUTH SOB, did not cheat, just that tony did not do what he should have done. i agree with you on that!
thanks, dan

 

[dantheman77]

Jimbo,

we know you are a Detroit fan and you think we are attacking the Detroit Tigers Team. Well, I do not think that is in any way anyone's intention. The Detroit Tigers are a good team with or without Rogers. I personally do not believe they need Rogers to achieve what they had so far.

The conversation is about Rogers and how he was using something that was caught on video and it has been noted as a "substance". We all have opiniated that it did not look like "dirt" (as Roger suggested). Do I believe that Kenny Roger is a fluke in the Radar? Yes. He is. Before this year, the guy has been a dissarter in every post season game he ever saw the light of day. Nobody is saying that he did not the potential to pitch like Cyoung (all of the sudden) but everyone is saying look at the video and tell me if that does not look suspicious. It was not only Game2 of the WS but on the ALCS and other games during the regular season.

Some Tiger fans think it is normal but it is not. How would you feel if Jeff Weaver had done the same and had pitched a no-hitter in the WS against the Tigers with a strange substance in his hand? I think the question here is about the individual and how he could be possibly be cheating as there are signs that point to the same. The fact that LaRussa did not make a fuss about it... Well read his press conference and you will see that LaRussa could have made a scene and could have done it. He was just decided to take the high rode and let it go. Not because he did not think it was nothing on Roger's hand but because he did not want to taint a WS game.

sean, the series IS TAINTED, if he did it or not.(and we know he did) but you are right.
also, your next govener( not u sean tiger fans) has been tainted, not becaues he condoned the cheating(and if he was not aware of it, he should have been) but for pitching to pujols in game 1 LOL`

PLAY BALL!!!!

GO CARDINALS!!

 

[Jimbo]

Bullsh!t!!! i will talk more about this tomorrow. i have been drinking( sad but ture) but you are wrong, i will back it up tomorrow. this is really pissing me off, rogers is a cheating, lying SOB!! he has always beem known as a dick, and this backs it up. jimbo, i have read your post before and it seams like you are a good guy, but as a fan of the tigers your judgement is clouded( as mine woul be to if the foot was in the other shoe, and i was not drunk! lol) i like u jimbo, well your post, i dont know you but you seem ok. and one more thing, for now, you did not say, rogers that CHEATING< LYING FOUL MOUTH SOB, did not cheat, just that tony did not do what he should have done. i agree with you on that!
thanks, dan

This is exactly right,
I don't think I ever said Rogers was or was not cheating... I just said that the umpires have no way of questioning a player without the opposing manager's request.
I would like to find out what the affects of pine tar actually do to the ball, most analyst say that pitchers often use a bit in cold weather to grip the ball as it is quit slick in cold weather... therefore I think it may be something that is common if you ask around the league.

Jimbo

 

[RandallA]

I'm not gonna take anything away from the Tigers. They have impressed during the post season, they are a very good team. Also, it does not a matter if you're a Tiger fan or Cardinals fan, what matters is the integrity of the game. He broke the rule, the rule says he has to be ejected.

and Jimbo nowhere in the rule it says that the opposing manager had to ask to check the player, nowhere.

 

[Jimbo]

So IF the Tigers pitching do shut down the Cards tommorow, will we have a strip search or admit that the Tigers pitching has been damn good all year ?

btw, dantheman77,
I am glad you joined the soprts threads with us.

Jimbo

 

[dantheman77]

This is exactly right,
I don't think I ever said Rogers was or was not cheating... I just said that the umpires have no way of questioning a player without the opposing manager's request.
I would like to find out what the affects of pine tar actually do to the ball, most analyst say that pitchers often use a bit in cold weather to grip the ball as it is quit slick in cold weather... therefore I think it may be something that is common if you ask around the league.

Jimbo

hi jimbo, guess you are still up too! bet i have drunk more though!! lol
i will look it up again tomorrow, wont now, you know why lol, but a ump has a right, in fact a duty, to enforce the rules of BB a neckless hanging out, a shinning earring, ect>
also i said that in fact you did not say he was not cheating!
not trying to kiss your butt, but i have always like OSU over the big blue. as u know im from MIZZOU, but i have a OSU wind jacket. now if we played you, and we did in the 70's i woul d hope we kick your buckeyes out!!! and we might have . back in the day , the tigers, were know as the giant killers. we would lose to most everybody EXCEPT the powerhouses, babma, noter dame, osu?? ect. again

PLAY BALL!!!

GO CARDINALS!!

 

[dantheman77]

So IF the Tigers pitching do shut down the Cards tommorow, will we have a strip search or admit that the Tigers pitching has been damn good all year ?

btw, dantheman77,
I am glad you joined the soprts threads with us.

Jimbo

ty jimbo!!
yes, the tigers are a heck of a team. i wont say all year though. like us
you got off to a GREAT start, better you then us. but i was SHOCKED to know that after the all star break you had the WORST record in BB. i thought that was our honnor. lol thats one reason while im so stumped to read that( in the WS thread)
most everybody there thought we were a joke. even after our first game win , ALOT over ther said tigers would win in 5. yeah, sweap us at home??!!?? could yoy,? yes. can we, YES. hey we are not a minor league team like manny of you seam to think. and we dont CHEAT!! ( at least have not been caught) LOL

as always

PLAY BALL!!! (fairly)

GO CARDINALS!!!

and no, i wont strip search the tigers, i will strip search pam anderson. not that she had nothing to do with it; i just want to!!!!!

 

[Claude Greiner]

Well look at it this way....

First of all The Tigers lost Saturday in Game #1, I don't see nobody crying about the outcome of that game.

Second of all, Rogers pitched like 2 innings with the "Dirt" on his hand, and after that he pitched another 6 good scoreless innings.

Finally, im pretty sure he is going to be extra carefull to wash his hands before pitching in the remaining games of the season.


The fact of the matter is that we are talking about 2 innings here for the whole series where he actually pitched worse than he did with the dirt on his hands.

 

[Jimbo]

ty jimbo!!
yes, the tigers are a heck of a team. i wont say all year though. like us
you got off to a GREAT start, better you then us. but i was SHOCKED to know that after the all star break you had the WORST record in BB. i thought that was our honnor. lol thats one reason while im so stumped to read that( in the WS thread)
most everybody there thought we were a joke. even after our first game win , ALOT over ther said tigers would win in 5. yeah, sweap us at home??!!?? could yoy,? yes. can we, YES. hey we are not a minor league team like manny of you seam to think. and we dont CHEAT!! ( at least have not been caught) LOL

as always

PLAY BALL!!! (fairly)

GO CARDINALS!!!

and no, i wont strip search the tigers, i will strip search pam anderson. not that she had nothing to do with it; i just want to!!!!!

Yes they had the worst record in the 2nd half , with a few other close 2nd and 3rd, but, you can afford to do that when you are 40 games over 500 by the break.

Jimbo

I can't wait till we can move to game 3 ....

 

[joedekock]

Yes they had the worst record in the 2nd half , with a few other close 2nd and 3rd, but, you can afford to do that when you are 40 games over 500 by the break.

Jimbo

I can't wait till we can move to game 3 ....

No, they did not have teh worse record in baseball after the all star break. There is no way a team could make the playoffs by posting the best record, and then the worse record, especially in a division whrer the White Sox, and Twins were playing all year. They had the worse record in the last month of baseball, and that caused them to slip into the wild card.

Their record after the allstar break was 36-36. There are many teams who were worse than .500 in the second half of the season.

 

[Sean Mota]

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD>To Yanks, he pulled fast one

</TD></TD><TR><TD>

</TD></TR><TR><TD>

</TD></TR><TR><TD><!-- Component: NYDailyNews : component/story/picture.comp --><TABLE cellSpacing=10 cellPadding=0 width=50 align=right border=0><TBODY></TBODY></TABLE><!-- Component: NYDailyNews : component/story/picture.comp -->ST. LOUIS - Television replays from Game 3 of the Yankees-Tigers division series show a dark streak on Kenny Rogers' left hand that is similar to the controversial one that appeared on him during the first inning of Sunday's World Series game.
According to several Yankees, however, there weren't any outward accusations of doctoring in the Bombers' clubhouse after Rogers dominated them over 7-2/3 shutout innings.
"I didn't hear anything like that at all," one player said.
It's worth noting that while the Cardinals were reportedly suspicious of the action that Rogers' sinker had in the first inning, the Bombers were more awestruck by the sudden jump in his velocity. Hitters that were used to seeing Rogers in the high-80s were overwhelmed by pitches that were closer to the mid-90s.
"People were wondering about steroids more than anything else," one player joked.
Then again, if the substance on Rogers' hand was pine tar - as some observers believe it was - or some other agent that helps with a grip, it could have allowed him to better harness his fastball in addition to bending his breaking balls.
TV footage also shows that the streak appeared during Rogers' ALCS outing against the A's. When asked about it, Rogers said it's probably reasonable to think one might appear if he pitches Game 6 of the World Series, too, since it comes from rubbing up the balls he uses in his pregame bullpen warm-up with a combination of mud, resin and spit to help take the shine off them. "You've got to rub it up," he said. "Everybody does."

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/story/464685p-390981c.html

 

[Sean Mota]

'It was pine tar'

Coach says pitchers often use foreign substances


http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/jon_heyman/10/23/scoop.rogers/index.html

"It was pine tar. It couldn't be anything else. Pitchers use pine tar, shaving cream and suntan lotion. Pitchers use them to help them grip the ball and make the ball move more. Bullpen guys sometimes keep suntan lotion in the ball bags. It's not for a tan. Pine tar works the best. It's been around the longest. But lately, more and more guys are using shaving cream and suntan lotion. There's no chance to be caught with shaving cream or suntan lotion.

"I don't know Kenny Rogers, but I'm guessing he had to use pine tar because it was so cold. He probably usually uses shaving cream or suntan lotion because they blend in. A lot of guys use shaving cream or suntan lotion, or both, because there's no way you could detect them. But it was so cold in Detroit. You need moisture or sweat to make the shaving cream or suntan lotion work, so it was probably too cold to use shaving cream or suntan lotion.

"Pine tar, which has been around forever, has a cakiness to it, and it works in the cold. A lot of guys use pine tar, too, but I'm guessing Rogers doesn't use it too much because he didn't know how to hide it. With suntan lotion or shaving cream, you can put it anywhere because it blends in. You see David Wells wiping his forearms after every pitch. That's either suntan lotion or shaving cream he's applying to his hand.

"Pine tar is the best, but you have to be careful with it because it's detectable. There are pine tar rags. But usually the pitchers keep the pine tar on their glove. They put it either deep in the pocket or the heel of the glove or inside the glove. Then when they take the glove off, with your index finger, middle finger or thumb, they get the pine tar.
"I am guessing Rogers didn't really know how to use pine tar, because he put too much on. It probably spread from his glove to the palm of his hand.

"You have to try to be inconspicuous about it. He probably put the pine tar on the glove but it started to leak and build up on his hand. There was nothing he could do about it. It started to cake up too much. Pine tar also makes a stain on the ball.

"Guys have to reapply pine tar every inning. They wipe it off their fingers with alcohol between innings. Then they reapply it the next inning.
"Pitchers usually hide the pine tar on their glove but also may put it on the back of their pant leg or put it on a pad in their back pocket. If they do that, they can slip their middle finger into their back pocket to apply it.
"The pine tar blends in nicely with the glove if it's the right color. I'd check which gloves he was using which inning. You just get it in your hand and rub it up. The pine tar allows the index finger and thumb to apply more pressure on the ball. With Rogers and his curveball, he needs more pressure on his thumb. It also helps the ball move a little extra. If the ball is fractionally heavier on one side, it will move more.

 

[Sean Mota]

Even more damaging to the Game

I bet Tony La Russa's pitchers are mad at him for saying anything, because a lot of guys do it, and I'd be surprise if there's a whole staff of guys who don't do it. In fact, I'd say a majority of guys use one of the three -- shaving cream, suntan lotion or pine tar. They can't like him ratting out the other team when everyone does it. Maybe he had to say something because it's the World Series, it's on TV and he probably has to answer to his owner.

"But you'll notice he didn't continue to talk about it, and he instructed his guys not to talk about it. They probably have no interest in catching Rogers because if they do then the umpire is looking at everyone.''

 

[BearcatScott]

The Yankees lost fair and square. Time to move on.

 

[Ramy]

I think the horse has been thoroughly beaten.

 

[Sean Mota]

The Yankees lost fair and square. Time to move on.

mmm... who is talking about the Yankees... The only reference made was that Kenny has been caught with the same substance in all three games in the playoffs (Yankees, A's and Cards). To try to imply what you are saying is ridiculous which was never the intention.

 

[Sean Mota]

I think the horse has been thoroughly beaten.

You think so...

 

[Paul Wozniak]

Kind of funny ST Louis fans bitching about Mr. Rogers. Didn't Mark McGuire play there? I guess steroids are acceptable there.

 

[Sean Mota]

Kind of funny ST Louis fans bitching about Mr. Rogers. Didn't Mark McGuire play there? I guess steroids are acceptable there.

Paul,

glad you brought this up... because I think in baseball there are very few players who can throw a stone! I think this was the main reason that LaRussa did not complaint about the incident. He has a few cheaters of his own in the closet.