Ku band LNBF Mounting Ideas Needed

Brct203

SatelliteGuys Pro
Dec 24, 2016
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1,038
Connecticut
Not offended one bit. Great and detailed information. I ordered a GeoSat Pro LNB and bracket yesterday.
Treated myself to a nanoVNA while at it. If the standard LNB works out good, maybe a universal in the future to see what it can do.
You put it all in a way that's easy to grasp and understand. You know. You don't need 500HP to go to the store....but it's damned fun to know it's there.
Like mentioned I do have 22 KHz switches but also a couple of DISEqC multi port ones too.
The only fuzzy area right now is once I get geared to install the LNB is the difference in focal point in relationship to where the C Band feed throat currently is to grab the initial signal.
Do you think it would closely match, be equal to or further back?
And Thanks!
As far as positioning of the Ku LNBF, the front of its actual feedhorn is somewhere near the back of the bulge of the built in scalar - if that makes sense. I found that after adjusting for best signal quality, my Ku LNBF has its front about 1/2 inch closer to the reflector than the opening of the C-Band LNBF. You'll have to experiment a bit. there's some Ku-band data transponders on 129W (SES15) and on 22W (SES4), that can be convenient for adjusting while the dish is pointing at low elevation.

I was not familiar with the nanoVNA. That sounds like a cool device! I have an old school spectrum analyzer, that is great for finding satellites but not for fine measurements. I also use an RTL-SDR dongle with ScanSDR, very useful for looking at details
 
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JFOK

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Aug 12, 2012
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arlo,

Looks like you're well on your way in setting up a Ku LNBF.
I think my solution of using a pipe hanger to hold the Ku LNBF (suggested by Titanium) would have been less expensive for you, but good luck never the less.
Ku is awesome !!!

John
 

arlo

Thread Starter
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Dec 4, 2016
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arlo,

Looks like you're well on your way in setting up a Ku LNBF.
I think my solution of using a pipe hanger to hold the Ku LNBF (suggested by Titanium) would have been less expensive for you, but good luck never the less.
Ku is awesome !!!

John
No. A pipe bracket may still be needed to go around the C Band feed horn if what Brct203 says is true.
Now that I know it may have been a good idea to grab a spare plastic one to piggy back things.
Any side views of your setup would be cool. The GeoSat looks short and stumpy.
So getting it close to the C LNB opening might take a little fabrication.
If it looks like it appears I'll never get the Ku feed anywhere close (to the Titanium feed opening) even if the plastic bracket is mounted to the front of the scalar.
Hoping for the best, but as we all know....always a stick in the spokes.
 
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JFOK

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Aug 12, 2012
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arlo.

I'll try to get you a picture or two of the side view of my set up.
The pipe bracket I mentioned is a 1.5 inch and would fit easily around a Ku LNBF and might also work with a C Band feedhorn depending on its dimensions.
Experimenting is what makes this hobby interesting and fun.
Also sometimes frustrating. ;)
Let us know how it goes.

John
 
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arlo

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Dec 4, 2016
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Speaking of sticks in the spokes.
Got the GeoSat Pro. Looks like with the bracket mounted at the front of the C Band scalar the throat (not front of the plastic cover. Lines right up at the throat of the Titanium C Band LNBF at the edge of the scalar.
Ok.
Going into setup of the Ku in the Os Mio menu I picked 125W which is low on the horizon and charts say there are some FTA's to receive. Set the menu to circular. DISEqC 1.2 to talk to the ASC1.
Then it starts to rain. Swapped the cable back to the C Bander.
No signal on 125.
Looked in Reception, Tuner Setup.
125W C Band had the LNB set to circular. So...(OK I've been known to screw up)...I put it back to C Band. Saved it.
Went to 125W Ku band to take a peek. WTF?
It's set to C Band. So I put it to circular. Saved.

Bottom line. Whatever is set for 125W for an LNB is the same in both C & Ku band.
Tried the same thing for other C & Ku band sats in the list. Any hints would be cool.
Is it a me thing or an OpenATV thing?

Edit:
Correct me if I'm wrong.
I have to choose LNB 2 in the Reception Settings Tuner A.
Right?
 
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arlo

Thread Starter
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Dec 4, 2016
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Haha. This self imposed quarantine is driving me knutz! Counting on you guys.
Simi and Razhneesh YouTUBE vids are making me crazy.
About expected LNB throat alignment. A few side pics would be nice.
Also hints of a Ku scalar being needed for a prime focus dish is being hinted. Do I really need one?
I see hints also of dedicated LNB's for prime focus dishes. Really? Any worries?
What is a good strong tp (NOT the Charmin kind) on a lower arc sat to establish getting a signal on?
I'm in N. PA. This has been a good conversation. Great info.
 

arlo

Thread Starter
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Dec 4, 2016
237
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North Eastern
A 2.5" pipe hanger fits around a C-band feedhorn and a 1.5" pipe hanger fits a Ku feedhorn.

I have also used a length of allthread, a few washers and nuts to secure a KU LNBF to a C-band feedhorn.

Stand in the hardware aisle and use your imagination. So many options!
I'm thinking that pipe hangers would give me too much Ku LNB "stick-out".
Hopefully a few pics would give a little insight.
 

arlo

Thread Starter
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Dec 4, 2016
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104
North Eastern
Rain is a good thing during this 'thing'. Washes the salt and crap off the roads so we can pull the hot rods out.
Help me screw my head on straight. Already am going to pull the motor off of the actuator to move the dish with a pair of vice grips.
If the LNB is on the right side of the C Band LNB. Will I move it left (lower arc) or right to snag a signal?
Been scribbling on paper. Not enough coffee as always.
 

JFOK

SatelliteGuys Pro
Aug 12, 2012
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582
Cape Cod - MA.
arlo,

Here is a close up of my C and Ku LNBF pairing.
I can send others if needed. Just let me know.
It really was an easy set up and the pipe hanger worked great.
When the weather gets better, I'll move the Ku LNBF closer to the C Band scaler and make the wiring neater, but for now I'm very pleased.

John

3 lnb.jpg
 
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arlo

Thread Starter
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Dec 4, 2016
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North Eastern
arlo,

Here is a close up of my C and Ku LNBF pairing.
I can send others if needed. Just let me know.
It really was an easy set up and the pipe hanger worked great.
When the weather gets better, I'll move the Ku LNBF closer to the C Band scaler and make the wiring neater, but for now I'm very pleased.

John

View attachment 144340
I'd really like to see a side view to show how the throats line up. Is your Ku body (not the plastic cover) feed in front or behind your C throat and by about how much?
Went out between drizzles today and tried to get a signal on 125W. No joy.
Checked and had 13vdc at the f connector. Moved the lnb around by hand and didn't get any signal.
If you can get 125W what is a hot tp that I can use to see if I can get a signal?
How many degrees would you estimate that your C band channels are offset from the Ku?
In actuator counts or seconds of run?
I had the Ku mounted right against the scalar and the throat was about 1/4 inch back from the C band throat opening.
Does this look right for setup in my box? It's a standard Geosat pro SL1PLL, LO 10750 11.7-12.2GHz RF In, 950-1450MHz out.

Oh. Your skew. It looks 45 degrees or so CW from my setup. I referenced 0 degrees from what the C Band LNB showed and verified by pointing the dish straight up at 72W. So 0 degrees was more or less straight up.
Definitely a touch more difficult than grabbing a C Band signal back when I dove into this.

No option in the menu for a standard ku lnb. so a little help from anyone here would be very cool.

LNB 2
Circular LNB
Voltage Mode Polarization
Tone Mode Off
DISEqC 12 (for the ASC1)

Thanks!!
 
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JFOK

SatelliteGuys Pro
Aug 12, 2012
779
582
Cape Cod - MA.
arlo,

I'll take a couple of pics today of the side view.
Not sure if I can help you with your menu set up , but I'm sure others here can steer you in the right direction.

John
 

Brct203

SatelliteGuys Pro
Dec 24, 2016
1,046
1,038
Connecticut
Arlo,

this is what i'm doing:
I have an ASC-1 and an OSMIO-4K. I have Linear C-Band in the normal spot, with Ku and Circular C-Band on each sides. They are all connected to a Diseqc 1.0 switch.
In the ASC-1, I have separate entries for C-Band and Ku-Band for the same satellites. This is critical since they will be received on different angles of the dish

In the OS MIO 4K, one LNB entry is set for Linear C-Band, one for Ku and one for Circular C-Band. Each satellite entry is set to the appropriate LNB entry, with the diseqc setting matching the way the LNBFs are wired. In your case I believe you are using a 22kHz switch, so instead of diseqc you would set "Tone" to on or off.

So for example I have
87W Ku using LNB2 (Ku)
87W C using LNB1 (C Linear)
47.5W C using LNB3 (C Circular)
34.5W C using LNB3
34.5W Ku using LNB2

each has a different Diseqc 1.2 number, and each position in the ASC-1 has its own count since the positions don't align because of the way the LNBFs are mounted

So you might need to download your ASC-1 config list, add all the Ku satellites as additional entries, and re-upload (it's a lot easier to do it on a computer than through the remote)

I hope this helps.
 

arlo

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Pro
Dec 4, 2016
237
104
North Eastern
Arlo,

this is what i'm doing:
I have an ASC-1 and an OSMIO-4K. I have Linear C-Band in the normal spot, with Ku and Circular C-Band on each sides. They are all connected to a Diseqc 1.0 switch.
In the ASC-1, I have separate entries for C-Band and Ku-Band for the same satellites. This is critical since they will be received on different angles of the dish

In the OS MIO 4K, one LNB entry is set for Linear C-Band, one for Ku and one for Circular C-Band. Each satellite entry is set to the appropriate LNB entry, with the diseqc setting matching the way the LNBFs are wired. In your case I believe you are using a 22kHz switch, so instead of diseqc you would set "Tone" to on or off.

So for example I have
87W Ku using LNB2 (Ku)
87W C using LNB1 (C Linear)
47.5W C using LNB3 (C Circular)
34.5W C using LNB3
34.5W Ku using LNB2

each has a different Diseqc 1.2 number, and each position in the ASC-1 has its own count since the positions don't align because of the way the LNBFs are mounted

So you might need to download your ASC-1 config list, add all the Ku satellites as additional entries, and re-upload (it's a lot easier to do it on a computer than through the remote)

I hope this helps.
What E2 image are you using?
In OpenATV 6.3 all I see are:
C-Band
User Defined
KA-SAT
Circular LNB
Unicable / JESS
Universal LNB

That's where I hit a brick wall. I see this post that says it is supposed to be the right one for the US. :


Also I see in the photo it appears that the Ku mounted beside the C Band is rotated 90 degrees from what I'd consider the reference of the C Band LNBF's 0 skew reference. Am I wrong?
 

arlo

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Pro
Dec 4, 2016
237
104
North Eastern
I'm definitely having a brain fart on linear and circular polarization for Ku.
Do any charts show it? The box says linear. Will this sucker be the hot ticket the get me there?
 

Brct203

SatelliteGuys Pro
Dec 24, 2016
1,046
1,038
Connecticut
What E2 image are you using?
In OpenATV 6.3 all I see are:
C-Band
User Defined
KA-SAT
Circular LNB
Unicable / JESS
Universal LNB

That's where I hit a brick wall. I see this post that says it is supposed to be the right one for the US. :


Also I see in the photo it appears that the Ku mounted beside the C Band is rotated 90 degrees from what I'd consider the reference of the C Band LNBF's 0 skew reference. Am I wrong?
I'm using TNAP that came with the receiver, and also a few other images for playing around. As far as I know, only TNAP includes a predefined LNB type for the North American standard LNB, since E2 is more Euro-centric and they don't usually have that type of LNB there.

I think in your case you should use "User Defined", set both LO to 10750, threshold at 11700

the Circular LNB in that list might be a type used for Russian satellites in Ku, i'm not sure. In any case from a receiver perspective, it does not matter if a signal is circular or linear, other than maybe suing the appropriate labels for the polarity of transponders
 

arlo

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Pro
Dec 4, 2016
237
104
North Eastern
I'm using TNAP that came with the receiver, and also a few other images for playing around. As far as I know, only TNAP includes a predefined LNB type for the North American standard LNB, since E2 is more Euro-centric and they don't usually have that type of LNB there.

I think in your case you should use "User Defined", set both LO to 10750, threshold at 11700

the Circular LNB in that list might be a type used for Russian satellites in Ku, i'm not sure. In any case from a receiver perspective, it does not matter if a signal is circular or linear, other than maybe suing the appropriate labels for the polarity of transponders
Just as a favor could you possibly switch your settings to your suggestions and see if you get a lock?
Can you clarify something too that may help me at least get a signal?
Without current skew angle considered is your C lnb 0 reference aligned with the Ku 0 reference?
Because the photo sure makes it look like it may be 90 degrees different.
 

arlo

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Pro
Dec 4, 2016
237
104
North Eastern
Arlo,

this is what i'm doing:
I have an ASC-1 and an OSMIO-4K. I have Linear C-Band in the normal spot, with Ku and Circular C-Band on each sides. They are all connected to a Diseqc 1.0 switch.
In the ASC-1, I have separate entries for C-Band and Ku-Band for the same satellites. This is critical since they will be received on different angles of the dish

In the OS MIO 4K, one LNB entry is set for Linear C-Band, one for Ku and one for Circular C-Band. Each satellite entry is set to the appropriate LNB entry, with the diseqc setting matching the way the LNBFs are wired. In your case I believe you are using a 22kHz switch, so instead of diseqc you would set "Tone" to on or off.

So for example I have
87W Ku using LNB2 (Ku)
87W C using LNB1 (C Linear)
47.5W C using LNB3 (C Circular)
34.5W C using LNB3
34.5W Ku using LNB2

each has a different Diseqc 1.2 number, and each position in the ASC-1 has its own count since the positions don't align because of the way the LNBFs are mounted

So you might need to download your ASC-1 config list, add all the Ku satellites as additional entries, and re-upload (it's a lot easier to do it on a computer than through the remote)

I hope this helps.
In its simplest form for the time being I'm just using my 2nd cable in the house to power the Ku.
Later on I'll insert either a DISEqC or a 22KHz switch in the mix behind the ASC-1. The goal is to just get a Ku signal on the lowest arc sat with the strongest signal. So far no joy.
I've even managed to run the USB com port adapter through my router that I use to program the ASC-1 through Ethernet to my laptop. Slick!
 

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