Little OTA info help...

[D. Manley]

There's been some changes in my local station's ownership resulting in broadcast chanel numbers, etc. lineups. The Dish satellite channel broadcast have properly changed to match but my local OTA CW Network, which was moved to a different sub-channel under the same primary, no longer has guide information. How does the OTA module get guide information, is it actually contained in the OTA signal or, provided by the local to Dish in some other manner. I'm trying to figure out who to be asking about getting this restored.
On a side note, I'm seeing another anomaly on this same channel. It's being broadcast in HD but the picture quality is thoroughly screwed up. For one thing, the image is horrible quality, zoomed format and, the format button on the Hopper remote does nothing - zero effect- on this channel. Any other channel, satellite or OTA, it's fine. This channel moved from a .2 subchannel to a .3 with the same tower & ownership. I'm hoping this is a temporary local glitch & plan to contact the station about all the issues - just not sure about the guide content and cannot grasp why or how my format button is disabled on a single channel.

 

[Peter Parker]

It does not come from the OTA signal. Dish gets it from tribune but they have a very erratic patern of providing it. here in the DC area I am missing guide data for THIS TV (though I have it for baltimore) Get TV, escape, Grit, and Movies! as well as fora few LP stations. Not much rhyme or reason about what subchannel data they provide and what they do not.

 

[D. Manley]

One of the local engineers called me back. He said the OTA guide content is part of the broadcast & should be present, said he'd get it corrected but may take a day or so.

On the picture quality, question answered. Info inaccurately shows HD, is now SD. Said they only had room for 2 HD channels & these went to the CBS & ABC affiliates - CW was odd man out & reverted to SD. I hate it but, it'll have to do. Still can't figure out why my format button has no effect on this single channel.

 

[boba]

Blame DISH they can send a SD picture where they fix the format so the format button does nothing. Also on an OTA receiver there is PSIP information which is sent out with channel information. DISH doesn't use the PSIP information it is sent as part of their guide information which may be displayed as Digital Service.

 

[navychop]

The OTA signal contains PSIP guide data for a few hours. For days out, it's provided elsewhere. Tribune, in this case.

 

[D. Manley]

I really hate the local affiliates have screwed this up. Dish uses the national CW feed via satellite and my local OTA has (had) significantly different content in OTA full HD. Now, no guide content & an absolutely horrible, over-zoomed, SD signal. This all originated over the FCC demanding a divestment of the ABC affiliate which had sort of domino effect.

 

[KAB]

I really hate the local affiliates have screwed this up. Dish uses the national CW feed via satellite and my local OTA has (had) significantly different content in OTA full HD. Now, no guide content & an absolutely horrible, over-zoomed, SD signal. This all originated over the FCC demanding a divestment of the ABC affiliate which had sort of domino effect.

We in Indy are going to be going through much the same in January. Our 59 yr old CBS affiliate lost it because they refused to pay what CBS wanted them to. Now it is going over to our CW affiliate channel as a sub. The same company also owns the Fox affiliate channel. Will be three News Studios in one building.

 

[D. Manley]

We in Indy are going to be going through much the same in January. Our 59 yr old CBS affiliate lost it because they refused to pay what CBS wanted them to. Now it is going over to our CW affiliate channel as a sub. The same company also owns the Fox affiliate channel. Will be three News Studios in one building.

Maybe you'll have better luck. Mine is dismal, went from an excellent, quality, channel to virtually unwatchable. Hell, if they had to go SD, fine but why screw the aspect ratio so badly it's basically unwatchable? It's like it's a zoomed picture on steroids magnifying all the artifacts exponentially.

 

[harshness]

This may be foreshadowing the beginning of the end of broadcast television.

 

[sam_gordon]

I don't think Dish can change the format of what the local affiliate is doing. If the local is zooming the picture in order to get 4:3 from 16:9, Dish can't "unzoom" that. IMO, the affiliate should center cut a 16:9 image to make 4:3.

As far as guide data, the station engineer is correct in that PSIP data IS sent with the OTA signal. However, Dish doesn't use ANY of the PSIP data, nor give the customer the option to use it. They get the data from Tribune and pass it along.

 

[DWS44]

Regarding the missing OTA Guide info...you may have some luck if you report it to one of the DIRT members to investigate. Back last year, the local Charlotte FOX and CW stations swapped affiliations. Dish was pretty quick to correct the guides for the Dish-provided channels, but for some time afterwards, the OTA guide info for both channels were not corrected, and thus reversed. It took over a month before Dish corrected it, IIRC. Dish rarely adds any new OTA guide data anymore (i.e. new stations that they hadn't provided guide data before), but seems like they have been willing to fix stations that they have already been providing when they change.

 

[D. Manley]

I don't think Dish can change the format of what the local affiliate is doing. If the local is zooming the picture in order to get 4:3 from 16:9, Dish can't "unzoom" that. IMO, the affiliate should center cut a 16:9 image to make 4:3.

As far as guide data, the station engineer is correct in that PSIP data IS sent with the OTA signal. However, Dish doesn't use ANY of the PSIP data, nor give the customer the option to use it. They get the data from Tribune and pass it along.

I agree, of all the format choices available for the local affiliate, this was the worst. For some reason (perhaps the extreme zooming), the image has a horrible flickering making it too poor to watch on most programs although, a few do have it less. I'm going to contact the station again & voice my concern over the format, nothing to lose by asking.

 

[D. Manley]

Regarding the missing OTA Guide info...you may have some luck if you report it to one of the DIRT members to investigate. Back last year, the local Charlotte FOX and CW stations swapped affiliations. Dish was pretty quick to correct the guides for the Dish-provided channels, but for some time afterwards, the OTA guide info for both channels were not corrected, and thus reversed. It took over a month before Dish corrected it, IIRC. Dish rarely adds any new OTA guide data anymore (i.e. new stations that they hadn't provided guide data before), but seems like they have been willing to fix stations that they have already been providing when they change.

Good idea. As of today still no guide information so your explanation makes sense. Thanks.

 

[Hall]

As far as guide data, the station engineer is correct in that PSIP data IS sent with the OTA signal. However, Dish doesn't use ANY of the PSIP data, nor give the customer the option to use it. They get the data from Tribune and pass it along.

They do actually - they use the TSID portion. It's a unique number and Dish uses it to match up to Tribune's guide data. I'd have to reread the OP but depending what was changed, it's possible the guide data will never return.


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[D. Manley]

They do actually - they use the TSID portion. It's a unique number and Dish uses it to match up to Tribune's guide data. I'd have to reread the OP but depending what was changed, it's possible the guide data will never return.


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Fairly simple. Primary CBS local broadcasting on channel 8.1. Subchannel 8.2 (CW with guide data) replaced by ABC affiliate on that sub. CW network moved to newly created 8.3 subchannel minus guide data & downgraded to SD. All 3 channels operated by same ownership & broadcast from same tower.

Originally:

8.1-CBS affiliate (HD)
8.2-CW Network (HD)

Now:

8.1-CBS affiliate (HD)
8.2-ABC affiliate (HD)
8.3-CW Network (SD)

 

[Hall]

Okay, that's clear. Since all three are primary networks, I think it will get updated in time. If that 8.3 was something like MyTV, ION, etc, it would likely remain blank.

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[D. Manley]

Okay, that's clear. Since all three are primary networks, I think it will get updated in time. If that 8.3 was something like MyTV, ION, etc, it would likely remain blank.

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Thanks, hope you're right. What makes me wonder is, the ABC affiliate moved from an unrelated channel 11.1 to 8.2 under the new deal with no guide interruption. I asked Zach (DIRT) to look into it but don't know if he'll be able to help or not.

 

[sam_gordon]

They do actually - they use the TSID portion. It's a unique number and Dish uses it to match up to Tribune's guide data. I'd have to reread the OP but depending what was changed, it's possible the guide data will never return.


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I stand corrected.

 

[Hall]

What makes me wonder is, the ABC affiliate moved from an unrelated channel 11.1 to 8.2 under the new deal with no guide interruption.

Coordinated planning between the station and Dish. Odd thing is, a) the station forgot to mention the changes involving CW and/or b) Dish has the list of channels and didn't ask what/if anything was going with it.

 

[Hall]

I stand corrected.

Only reason this is known, well, "suspected" is more accurate, is that in the past, stations have made changes and people with fancy equipment (at home) can see all sorts of data, including PSIP. Part of the PSIP data is the TSID and in at least (2) cases, maybe (3), in the Dayton OH market, the stations changed the TSID and subsequently, the Dish guide changed to "Digital Service" (that's what the guide on older receivers would read - now it just reads the station's call letters). The people with this equipment could see what changed and in the past, people could report it and it got updated. Again, those people with the equipment could see that the TSID was update, Dish's guide showed proper data, and so on. So again, it's not a fact that this is the case, but it sure seems likely.