Long Distance Networks Going Away

bobinraymoremo

SatelliteGuys Family
Apr 18, 2009
77
9
Raymore MO
We live full-time in our RV since 2009 and have had DNS since, both east and west coast feeds. Been a crazy couple days. Checked yesterday morning when I got up and had all channels. Later lost ABC east but still had ABC west but only for a few hours. This morning both CW east and west missing too. Might take a while to sort this new reality out.

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MontanaGuy

Member
Nov 3, 2010
13
0
Plentywood, MT
West Coast networks worked yesterday (Monday), but checked this morning and all are showing as "not subscribed" (KABC, KNBC, KCBS, and KTTV). Anyone had any luck getting them turned back on? I had waivers from local ABC, NBC, CBS, and Fox affiliates, so I was receiving both my locals and West Coast distants up until this morning.
 

raoul5788

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Dec 28, 2004
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West Coast networks worked yesterday (Monday), but checked this morning and all are showing as "not subscribed" (KABC, KNBC, KCBS, and KTTV). Anyone had any luck getting them turned back on? I had waivers from local ABC, NBC, CBS, and Fox affiliates, so I was receiving both my locals and West Coast distants up until this morning.
I'm guessing if you have locals you will not get the west coast channels back.
 

slice1900

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Feb 14, 2015
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I'm guessing if you have locals you will not get the west coast channels back.
Yes, the new law ended all 'grandfathering' that let people who had DNS channels in the past because they didn't have locals at the time keep their DNS channels.
 

raoul5788

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I'm pissed, have had the NY/LA channels from C-band then DIRECTV (thinking 80's on), Grandfathered for and lost Sunday night. Deathstar is on notice now as I only kept for these.,
I had NY and Denver on c band in the early 90s.
 

NYDutch

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Dec 28, 2013
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You do realize that ATT didn't make that law, right ?
Yes, but AT&T/DTV has had years to fulfill the original 1988 terms of the law by adding the missing 12 LIL's so the temporary out of market allowance could lapse as intended by Congress. The temporary intent is why the law has had to be renewed every 5 years instead of being made permanent. DTV kept promising to get it done, but hasn't...
 

slice1900

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Yes, but AT&T/DTV has had years to fulfill the original 1988 terms of the law by adding the missing 12 LIL's so the temporary out of market allowance could lapse as intended by Congress. The temporary intent is why the law has had to be renewed every 5 years instead of being made permanent. DTV kept promising to get it done, but hasn't...
Even if Directv had added those 12 markets it wouldn't make any difference to you. The grandfathering provision was removed from the law entirely, it wouldn't have been allowed after June 1st no matter what Directv had done in the past.
 

NYDutch

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Even if Directv had added those 12 markets it wouldn't make any difference to you. The grandfathering provision was removed from the law entirely, it wouldn't have been allowed after June 1st no matter what Directv had done in the past.
If DTV had added those markets they would have been able to do as Dish did, and negotiate DNS without the pressure of the law expiring and made the subs in those markets happier as well. It actually doesn't affect me one way or the other. As a Dish subscriber I can easily change my locals with an app or even "move" to an area that has CONUS locals for a free pseudo-DNS. And of course Dish allows dropping the locals completely and knocks $12/mo off your bill.
 

slice1900

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Feb 14, 2015
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If DTV had added those markets they would have been able to do as Dish did, and negotiate DNS without the pressure of the law expiring and made the subs in those markets happier as well. It actually doesn't affect me one way or the other. As a Dish subscriber I can easily change my locals with an app or even "move" to an area that has CONUS locals for a free pseudo-DNS. And of course Dish allows dropping the locals completely and knocks $12/mo off your bill.
Dish lost the right for DNS grandfathering years ago for reasons others can probably explain. So part of STELA that allowed grandfathering only applied to Directv, and STELAR removes that.

There is NO negotiation that Directv could have done to continue to allow grandfathering - it is against FCC rules for satellite companies (and cable companies, though exactly which stations they are allowed to deliver out of market differs slightly) to deliver out of market locals except for stations on the "significantly viewed". Adding those markets wouldn't have changed that, and no amount of negotiation "without the pressure of the law expiring" would have changed that.

The people who were grandfathered were screwed the minute STELAR was passed without any provision to continue it, and nothing legal or contractual could have changed it short of a new law being passed.
 

NYDutch

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Dish lost the right for DNS grandfathering years ago for reasons others can probably explain. So part of STELA that allowed grandfathering only applied to Directv, and STELAR removes that.

There is NO negotiation that Directv could have done to continue to allow grandfathering - it is against FCC rules for satellite companies (and cable companies, though exactly which stations they are allowed to deliver out of market differs slightly) to deliver out of market locals except for stations on the "significantly viewed". Adding those markets wouldn't have changed that, and no amount of negotiation "without the pressure of the law expiring" would have changed that.

The people who were grandfathered were screwed the minute STELAR was passed without any provision to continue it, and nothing legal or contractual could have changed it short of a new law being passed.
And Dish got the DNS rights back years ago as well. They were advertising it just a couple of years ago, and I understand it's still available on request.

If DTV had added the missing LIL's they could have negotiated for DNS carriage just as Dish did within the FCC rules...
 

slice1900

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And Dish got the DNS rights back years ago as well. They were advertising it just a couple of years ago, and I understand it's still available on request.

If DTV had added the missing LIL's they could have negotiated for DNS carriage just as Dish did within the FCC rules...
Dish got back DNS rights but lost the right to 'grandfather' anyone. Not sure why you keep changing the subject, I guess you just don't want to admit that the only people who lost out from Directv deciding not to serve those 12 markets were the 11,000 customers who live in those 12 markets. There's no way Directv could ever recoup the cost of adding those markets from such a tiny number of customers.
 

MontanaGuy

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Nov 3, 2010
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Plentywood, MT
I just checked with DISH today, and in my case I am ineligible for Distant Networks. Here is what I was told on DISH chat: "Your account does not qualify for Distant Network Service since it is only available for RVs or Commercial Trucks". Hopefully some day I will be eligible for distant networks again, but not holding my breath. When I first signed up with DISH 20 years ago, I received networks in SD from four cities (New York. Los Angeles, Phoenix, and Salt Lake City). Maybe had Denver at one point as well. Those days are sure long gone!
 

NYDutch

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Dish got back DNS rights but lost the right to 'grandfather' anyone. Not sure why you keep changing the subject, I guess you just don't want to admit that the only people who lost out from Directv deciding not to serve those 12 markets were the 11,000 customers who live in those 12 markets. There's no way Directv could ever recoup the cost of adding those markets from such a tiny number of customers.
Have it your way,...
 

sharksfan

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Oct 3, 2016
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North America
Dish got back DNS rights but lost the right to 'grandfather' anyone. Not sure why you keep changing the subject, I guess you just don't want to admit that the only people who lost out from Directv deciding not to serve those 12 markets were the 11,000 customers who live in those 12 markets. There's no way Directv could ever recoup the cost of adding those markets from such a tiny number of customers.
Those 12 markets represent 470,000 TV households, according to Nielsen. If you notice, there are gaps in the numbers, below. Those gaps represent markets that *are* covered.

177Bowling Green72,620
188Grand Junction-Montrose61,390
192Great Falls53,210
195San Angelo50,220
196Cheyenne-Scottsbluff48,930
199Casper-Riverton43,760
201Ottumwa-Kirksville37,440
202Victoria28,500
205Helena25,720
206Presque Isle22,340
208Alpena14,280
209North Platte12,010
 

slice1900

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Directv recently revealed they have only 11,000 subscribers in those markets. It doesn't matter how many households there are, Directv has only a small number and getting people in those markets to switch from their current provider in 2020 by saying "now we have your locals" is not going to happen.

There's not necessarily any rhyme or reason to why markets 203 & 204 are covered but 202 and 205 are, back when they were adding markets they had limited spot beam resources and probably decided based on where they had the most customers or where they felt the had the biggest upside of new customers if they added the locals.

When they launched D14 they included dedicated spot beams for some of these markets (and existing satellites were already able to cover the others) Market 201 for Ottumwa/Kirksville for example has a dedicated beam on D14. So when they were building D14 they may have still planned on adding all the markets, or at least wanted the option, but by the time it launched a few years later they changed their mind.

In the past they could have added new subscribers if they added locals, especially in some of the 'larger' DMAs. Bowling Green has 72,000 households, they might have only 2-3% of them now. If they added their locals, could they induce some of that market's cable/Dish subscribers to switch? Probably 5 or 10 years ago they could, but not today when people are leaving cable/satellite for streaming by the millions.

Like it or not, this was obviously a bean counter driven decision. There's simply no way they could come close to getting payback on the cost of adding those markets from only 11,000 subscribers, and they can't rely on adding new subscribers when they are losing a few million subscribers a year to cord cutting.
 

Sea Beagle

SatelliteGuys Family
Jul 10, 2005
99
47
I contacted them a few months ago about it and they offered to send me the forms to receive them. For a while my wife's parents used Dish when they traveled. With Dish you have a lot more flexibility. If you have a "Dish Outdoors" account you can actually change your locals using the Dish app on your phone or tablet to where you are if you travel. They also have a number of markets that are on the Continental US satellites (though this list is dwindling- a lot of the good ones that used to be there are no longer available). If you don't mind having locals from some obscure market you can just "switch" to one of those and be set for good. It's not hard to "trick" the Dish app into thinking you are somewhere other than where you are either, if you have an Android device.
How is that done? Why not in a Apple device?


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NYDutch

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How is that done? Why not in a Apple device?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Install a fake GPS app (I use "Fake GPS") and set it for the location you want. It only works if your device actually has GPS of course. I don't know if there are similar apps for Apple devices...
 

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