lost station (1 Viewer)

acamus

Thread Starter
Member
Jul 20, 2009
14
0
NE USA
I live in Northeastern Pa. This morning after watching Channel 28 WBRE news I installed a Blonder Tongue preamp Vaulter III on the Channel master uhf antenna I have positioned at about 50' in elevation, with hope of getting additional stations. After re-erecting the antenna I discovered I had lost Channel 28 but had gained 7 other channels in the UHF band. I called the station to see if they had dropped the broadcast, they were still up. I've tinkered with the antenna, looked at the map for the antenna transmitter tower locations relative to my address at 18248 to point the antenna precisely, with no luck. Does anyone have an idea why I can not receive that station after the preamp install?
 

Splicer

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jan 18, 2007
231
0
Sounds like you are overdriving the tuner with the pre-amp. Too strong of a signal is just as detrimental as too weak of a signal.
 

Splicer

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jan 18, 2007
231
0
Well, first you need to determine that the pre-amp is the cause. Disconnect the pre-amp and see if the channel returns. Then, if it does return, you should see if detuning the antenna (move the antenna slightly off angle) might help bring in Ch.28 and the other 7 channels. If not, you can look for a frequency (channel) specific attenuator to put inline.
 

Houston

SatelliteGuys Family
Mar 28, 2006
113
0
Houston, Tx USA
acamus,

Blonder is very stingy with their specs, do you have a link you could share, for a spec sheet on the V-III ? If not, do you know what the gain is for UHF/VHF ?
Though Splicers approach for the single channel attenuation is probably the way to go, here's an attenuator, which you may consider. The...
Antennas Direct 1296F Variable Attenuator
Also, is this problem showing up on both outputs ?

Splicer,
Would you happen to have a link/ref where there's a list of the Single Channel Attenuators ?

Have a good Day ! :)
S.W.
 

boba

SatelliteGuys Master
Dec 12, 2003
11,351
1,032
Dorchester, TX.
If the problem isn't overdriving the tuner it could be that your new channels are interfering with Ch28 check TV Fool to see what you might have for other broadcasters
 

acamus

Thread Starter
Member
Jul 20, 2009
14
0
NE USA
Lost channel

No I don't have any spec for the preamp output, I did however try the suggestion of removing the amp at the TV end of the coax. No signal came through, which of course means no channels available. I reconnected and turned the antenna 30 degrees east and then west to try to detune for channel 28 input, no help. I lost signal strength on all channels. I noticed the TV comment says "weak or no signal" when I type in 28-1 for the channel 28 selection. Wouldn't a powerful signal cause the tuner to at least recognize the station?
 

Splicer

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jan 18, 2007
231
0
So, you removed the amp completely from the line or did you just 'unplug' the amp? I ask because if you just unplugged the amp then you wouldn't get any signal as you are describing.

As for the powerful signal question, it depends if the tuner would recognize it. As we have been discussing, too strong will overdrive the tuner and you will get a 'no signal' message.

Houston, I do not have any links to a channel specific attenuator. I'm not sure one is even made but that doesn't mean much.;)
 

acamus

Thread Starter
Member
Jul 20, 2009
14
0
NE USA
Lost channel

No I did not remove the preamp on the antenna. Lowering the antenna is about an hour job and I no one available to help with the guide wires. I will try that strategy in the near future when I have help. I noticed when I went to the suggested site TV Fool that the missing channel is also broadcast on Channel 11 as well as 28-1 which is the channel that disappeared. Also, channel 28 has the highest NM(db) of all the stations available. A signal attenuator for 28 may be the solution as you suggest. I'll try the local electronics store for that device. I'll have to work the next few days, but when time permits I'll take your suggestion to heart. Thank you all for your help, I'll let you know how it plays out.
 

styxfix

Supporting Founder
Supporting Founder
Oct 7, 2003
628
29
Pacific Coast
Ch 11 is VHF and is the real channel 28-1 is on, so you need to add a Vhf antenna to your setup for this channel. Also make sure that preamp you have also passes VHF signals. It may only pass UHF signals.
 

Splicer

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jan 18, 2007
231
0
styxfix, I think you may have hit the nail on the head here in a round-about sort of way. The pre-amp being used is a UHF/VHF model, HOWEVER it has seperate inputs for UHF & VHF. SO if the OP only has his UHF antenna connected to the UHF input, then of course any VHF signals will not be passed. Should this be the case, and I would be willing to bet that it is, therein lies the problem (and solution). The VHF side of the pre-amp needs to be jumpered over to the UHF side, or better yet, add a VHF antenna such as the VHF antenna in my signature and connect to the VHF side of the pre-amp. This should recover 28.1 for the OP. Also other VHF stations (WYOU, WBPH, WPVI, WGAL) are possibilities.

Of course, this is all under the presumption that the pre-amp is a 300ohm in and 75 ohm output model. If it is the 300 ohm output model, there is only one 300 ohm input for both UHF & VHF, and we are back at square one. We need the OP to clarify the model he is using.

http://www.blondertongue.com/reception/galaxy.pdf
 
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No Static At All

SatelliteGuys Pro
Aug 18, 2008
269
0
Northern Va
I think Styfix truly did hit the nail on the head.:up The OP is attempting to receive a VHF station with a UHF antenna. The reception seen on VHF 11 beforehand was purely incidental, and the addition of the pre-amp has likely upset the delicate balance that luckily worked at that time.

For some reason those Blonder-Tongue pre-amps look to be a bit noisier than the more commonly used Winegard & Channel master units. I also thought that a UHF only amp would just pass the VHF frequencies un-amplified (like Winegard models), but not sure if all models do.:confused:
 

Houston

SatelliteGuys Family
Mar 28, 2006
113
0
Houston, Tx USA
acamus,

I took the opportunity to look up Your Chart
And I'm sorry to tell you this, but I've definitely seen better ! :eek:

Just to clarify...
The Column marked "Real", is the Channel Frequency Number, that the Antenna actually has to be able to receive.
The "(Virt)" column, are the numbers you enter into your Remote/Tuner, to select that channel.
You can blame the FCC for that, but, it's the way it's done.
An Antenna should always be selected, according to the Frequencies listed in the "Real" Column of your Chart, for your specific location.

So, given what I see in your chart, you MUST have an Antenna which at least receives Channels 7-69, but, if you have a Full Range Antenna Ch 2-69. that would work too.
Do you know what kind of Antenna you have ?
If not, maybe you could attach a picture of it, and someone may be able to identify it for you.

I think your choice to add an Pre-Amp to your system, was a good idea.
However, given that we don't know what the output(s) are for the V-III, I may have suggested the...
ChannelMaster AP-8780

I was under the impression, that the V-III Amp, had only One Input for the Antenna, but TWO Outputs (like for two TV's) and that it supported both VHF and UHF.

So to re-cap what you need to do...
1) Get us the Make/Model of your Antenna, or, a Picture of it.
2) Tell us if the wire you're using on the V-III is 300 ohm (Flat Cable) or Coaxial.
3) Look at the V-III, or the Paperwork for it, and see if there are separate inputs for VHF and UHF, or just one input, and one output.
4) Then IF there are separate inputs for VHF and UHF, which one do you have your Antenna connected to.

One other thing...
Are you sure that you're Aim is directly on the Channel. Do you have a Compass, and are sure that the Antenna is on 45° Magnetic ?

I apologize for my redundancy, the other Contributors to this issue, having said the same thing. But, I thought it may be helpful to offer a step by step approach .

Have a good Day ! :)
S.W.
 
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acamus

Thread Starter
Member
Jul 20, 2009
14
0
NE USA
Ok guys, I've gotten the message. The preamp has duel input for 300 ohm, one of which is connected to the UHF antenna and a single coax output. I'm shopping for a combo antenna, probably will buy the winegard 7694, it has good gain and the towers are approximately <30 miles from my home. Any preference on uhf/vhf antennas?
 

Houston

SatelliteGuys Family
Mar 28, 2006
113
0
Houston, Tx USA
acamus,

The...
Winegard HD7694P
is a great Antenna, but I think you're cutting it a little too close on the Range.

The usual "Rule of Thumb" is, to multiply the distance from you to the Transmitter by 1.5, and select an Antenna on that mileage.

That would make the...
Winegard HD7696P
a better choice, and, you'd have a little better Gain too.

Now, this is assuming that you're going to leave it stationary at your 45° Azimuth.
Had you thought of ever putting a Rotator on your system ?
If that is a consideration, then the Antenna suggested above, would be short of reaching out to your CW station at 214°, and I would say that the...
Winegard HD7697P
would be the choice there.

In either case, I think you're going to have to get another Amp, and the one I mentioned in my previous post, would work well with either of the proposed Antennas.

Have a good Day ! :)
S.W.

PS: The word "Combo" is generally associated with a Full Range Antenna (Ch 2-69).
 
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Splicer

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jan 18, 2007
231
0
You have a dedicated UHF antenna. I would recommend that you get a dedicated VHF antenna such as the AntennaCraft Y5-7-13 Highband-Broadband VHF Yagi. You will get the best results with dedicated antennas. Combos are not as good and for convienence only. I use the antenna suggested and I am 30+ miles from the towers as well, and I have excellent results. No complaints, no dropouts. And it is inexpensive as well.
 

Houston

SatelliteGuys Family
Mar 28, 2006
113
0
Houston, Tx USA
acamus,

I'll definitely go along with Splicer recommendation for the Y5, IF you want to go with a combined system. Since you're dong the 300 ohm, I'd use the...
Winegard SD3700
to put those two together.
Splicer, have you used one of those, or do you do Coax ?

I'll say this though...
I think Splicer is the luckiest guy around, when it comes to combining Antennas,
Not everyone has very good luck doing that.

Have a good Day ! :)
S.W.
 

Splicer

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jan 18, 2007
231
0
The OP absolutely DOES NOT need the http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=SD-3700 , since he already has a combining pre-amp. He has 1-300ohm UHF in & 1-300ohm VHF in & 1-75ohm out. So the combiner/balun is built in. Nothing else needs to be added.

To answer Houstons question, I use a UVSJ to combine UHF & VHF:Pico Macom UVSJ UHF VHF Band Separator/Combiner for Antenna (UVSJ) - Pico Macom - UVSJ - UVSJ - UVSJ mounted on the mast. To join the 2 U4000 antennas, I use a balun on both joined with a section of RG6.
 

acamus

Thread Starter
Member
Jul 20, 2009
14
0
NE USA
Wow, many suggestions. Well I ordered the winegard 7696p, $92.50 delivered. I'm only a little worried about weight and wind resistance. 3 years ago the original antenna, a gift from a friend, broke due to ice build up. The antenna I presently have I'm sure is a Channelmaster. I don't remember the model. It has four bow-ties equaly spaced on approximately 36 inch square wire mesh reflector. It has had ice on it and withstood heavy winds last year without fail. Is there any secret to keeping the ice of the yagi models?
 

No Static At All

SatelliteGuys Pro
Aug 18, 2008
269
0
Northern Va
I wouldn't be overly concerned with ice buildup on a 7-69 antenna. The shorter elements are much less prone to ice damage than a full band channel 2-69 antenna. The wind resistance is fairly low with this model also.

Trying to re-fold those Winegard HD models is where I have encountered the most damage. Once snapped into place, the elements are difficult to re-fold.
 

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