Make Hopper/Joey a little more SD-Friendly.

[3HaloODST]

Hi all,

I just upgraded from two 722Ks, feeding two HDTVs and two SDTVs. Now I have 2H/2J. Everything is fantastic other than menu legibility on the SDTVs. The words are just barely legible, and certain things (such as the event descriptions on the Daily Schedule) are darn-near impossible to read on the SDTVs, especially with the very low-contrast black text on a gray background. I think that there should be an option for text size and even give the option to have logos on or off, also maybe higher-contrast color schemes. The new menus look fantastic on the HDTVs however the logos take up precious space that the SDTVs need for larger text.

Also the H/J do not take into account for overscan all that much. Even HDTVs still implement overscan, some more than others, some you can turn overscan on or off, others you can adjust the amount of overscan, but for the most part H/J do not seem to compensate very much for overscan. Things such as the colors by the events in the Daily Schedule can get cut off by the SDTVs, and even some HDTVs with overscan enabled.

My 722Ks had the option to change text size in the guide, here's hoping that H/J will have options like this soon. I know that SDTVs are no longer being sold for the most part, but SDTVs can also last for decades, so I think that Dish should still take into account getting the menus legible on them.

My 2c. Overall first impression is great, other than this issue and the issues we were having during installation with Joeys refusing to link to their respective Hopper, or even linking to the wrong Hopper or the other Joey.

 

[mfoster711]

I would not hold your breath on any changes being made to accommodate SD TV's, it just ain't worth their time. You can't even buy SD TV's anymore. I plan to replace my last SD TV at the same time I switch to Hopper/Joey but I don't want to spend that money right now so it is one of the reasons I am waiting to upgrade.

 

[dangue]

Hi all,

I just upgraded from two 722Ks, feeding two HDTVs and two SDTVs. Now I have 2H/2J. Everything is fantastic other than menu legibility on the SDTVs. The words are just barely legible, and certain things (such as the event descriptions on the Daily Schedule) are darn-near impossible to read on the SDTVs, especially with the very low-contrast black text on a gray background. I think that there should be an option for text size and even give the option to have logos on or off, also maybe higher-contrast color schemes. The new menus look fantastic on the HDTVs however the logos take up precious space that the SDTVs need for larger text.

Also the H/J do not take into account for overscan all that much. Even HDTVs still implement overscan, some more than others, some you can turn overscan on or off, others you can adjust the amount of overscan, but for the most part H/J do not seem to compensate very much for overscan. Things such as the colors by the events in the Daily Schedule can get cut off by the SDTVs, and even some HDTVs with overscan enabled.

My 722Ks had the option to change text size in the guide, here's hoping that H/J will have options like this soon. I know that SDTVs are no longer being sold for the most part, but SDTVs can also last for decades, so I think that Dish should still take into account getting the menus legible on them.

My 2c. Overall first impression is great, other than this issue and the issues we were having during installation with Joeys refusing to link to their respective Hopper, or even linking to the wrong Hopper or the other Joey.

Menu--> settings--> format TV--> screen adjustment will allow you to adjust video output to fit your tv screen.

 

[3HaloODST]

As I said, I know that SD TVs are getting harder to find by the day, but many upon many people still have SD TVs to this day that just won't die and they're not going to upgrade until that happens. H/J is Dish's only whole-home solution. Just because they took a lot longer to release it than the competitors doesn't mean that they should neglect those that still have SDTVs. DirecTV and U-verse don't neglect making the menus legible on SDTVs. Not everyone has HDTVs in every single room in their house, and since Dish won't allow ViP receivers to be mixed with H/J then they should take the time to make it more SD-friendly.

Thanks for the suggestion dangue, but I already have both of the SDTVs on 480i 4:3 #2 with the composite connection. Regular TV looks better than the TV2 did on the 722Ks, however the menus need to at least have an option to make them more SD-friendly.

Again, my 2 cents.

 

[Lt Disher]

I think that going at this issue by stressing SD televisions is probably not going to work. As was mentioned SD sets are eventually going to be a thing of the past.

However, the issue of access is one that should have traction. Many people have eyesight issues, especially as we grow older. There should be some provision for larger fonts and easier readability.

If the problem is going to be fixed, this may be the best avenue for making requests to DISH.

 

[JM42]

However, the issue of access is one that should have traction. Many people have eyesight issues, especially as we grow older. There should be some provision for larger fonts and easier readability.

I agree 100% on this. Dish should not spend any time at all on "SD" support, but they do need at least one higher contrast/larger font option. My eyesight is fine, but even I find some of the grey on grey and blue on grey type a little difficult to read at times.

I've told my parents to stick with their 722s because of this - Hopper's UI just wouldn't work for them.

 

[sparc]

IMO, Dish did a pretty good job with SD support on the H/J system and they should continue modestly supporting it. (Remember that satelliteguys forum members with all HDTVs in their home are in the minority)

I've noticed after a month that I'm still learning tricks for getting SD to be more functional via the Hopper/Joey system. Changing around the formats and such to make even the HD channels look pretty good on an SD TV.

 

[ScottChez]

When people order the Hopper and Joey there should be a disclaimer so the customer knows there SD TVs are going to have a hard time see the Channel Guide.

Most are getting 2nd and 3rd Joeys for there older SD tis located in the basement or kids room only to find AFTER they signed a Two year contract that it is real hard to use the Channel Guide as the font is too small. At this point they are stuck in a contract can there is nothing they can do but to spend hundreds more on a HD TV.
Dish at least needs to offer a 3 hour guide like they have on there other boxes.
The customer needs to be told about this BEFORE ordering.

 

[3HaloODST]

When people order the Hopper and Joey there should be a disclaimer so the customer knows there SD TVs are going to have a hard time see the Channel Guide.

Most are getting 2nd and 3rd Joeys for there older SD tis located in the basement or kids room only to find AFTER they signed a Two year contract that it is real hard to use the Channel Guide as the font is too small. At this point they are stuck in a contract can there is nothing they can do but to spend hundreds more on a HD TV.
Dish at least needs to offer a 3 hour guide like they have on there other boxes.
The customer needs to be told about this BEFORE ordering.

My sentiments exactly. I'm not sure why other people think that SDTVs are going to disappear overnight. I mean after all, I would say EASILY that SDTV customers are the majority of Dish subscribers. As I said people are waiting for the TVs to die but they are very robust. I don't need an HDTV in the rooms that have the SDTVs (yet.) I've got two other HDTVs I can watch if I want HD. I shouldn't have to buy more HDTVs just to conform with Dish. I think that if Dish wants H/J to be their answer to whole-home DVR, then they need to consider SDTVs as well as HDTVs. Hardly anyone has HDTVs in every room in their house.

 

[Tampa8]

Not meant to disagree, just an observation. The function of the Hopper system is to deliver two things house wide. DVR fuctions, and HD. The 722K is meant to deliver two things to two rooms. DVR functions, and HD to one room, SD to another. The 612 is meant to deliver two things. DVR functions, and HD to one room. All can be manipulated to do more, but then it's not what the primary purpose was and there are drawbacks.

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

I do know they are working on better SD support, including listings instead of picture tiles for shows recorded on the DVR.

They know they have a lot of mixed HD / SD households.

 

[DishSubLA]

I do know they are working on better SD support, including listings instead of picture tiles for shows recorded on the DVR.

They know they have a lot of mixed HD / SD households.

But will this mean the HD at the Joey would also lose its great enhancements for HD such as channel logos, etc, the same great interface/eye candy as the Hopper? I would NOT want to lose the picture tiles, etc. at the Joey. Now if Dish implements this as a seperate SD display OPTION at the Joey that would preserve all the visual goodies in HD for the Joeys.

 

[3HaloODST]

I do know they are working on better SD support, including listings instead of picture tiles for shows recorded on the DVR.

They know they have a lot of mixed HD / SD households.

That's great to hear Scott... This is why I love SatGuys!

Not meant to disagree, just an observation. The function of the Hopper system is to deliver two things house wide. DVR fuctions, and HD. The 722K is meant to deliver two things to two rooms. DVR functions, and HD to one room, SD to another. The 612 is meant to deliver two things. DVR functions, and HD to one room. All can be manipulated to do more, but then it's not what the primary purpose was and there are drawbacks.

Except that the 722K and 612 were still legible on SDTVs and could be easily used on SDTVs. My point is that H/J are Dish's only WHDVR solution. Every other company with a WHDVR solution has legible menus on SDTVs. I think that Dish shouldn't leave the SDTVs behind in the dust, especially if they won't even allow people to use ViPs or whatever else on the SDTVs. Looks like Dish realizes this as well.

But will this mean the HD at the Joey would also lose its great enhancements for HD such as channel logos, etc, the same great interface/eye candy as the Hopper? I would NOT want to lose the picture tiles, etc. at the Joey. Now if Dish implements this as a seperate SD display OPTION at the Joey that would preserve all the visual goodies in HD for the Joeys.

Of course they're not going to take away the HD interface... I'm sure it will be an option...

 

[towboy123]

The should round up all the SD TVs and they should be shot so that HD replacement are the only thing available. Unless the TV comes in a real wooden box then its cool

 

[3HaloODST]

The should round up all the SD TVs and they should be shot so that HD replacement are the only thing available. Unless the TV comes in a real wooden box then its cool

As long as you have the money to buy everyone new TVs...

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

But will this mean the HD at the Joey would also lose its great enhancements for HD such as channel logos, etc, the same great interface/eye candy as the Hopper? I would NOT want to lose the picture tiles, etc. at the Joey. Now if Dish implements this as a seperate SD display OPTION at the Joey that would preserve all the visual goodies in HD for the Joeys.

No it will be selectable on each Joey / Hopper.

Some HD folks dont like the Title Art for their DVR listings so they will have an option to set it back to a list.

 

[navychop]

.... Unless the TV comes in a real wooden box then its cool

Crosley. We had one. 17"? I believe they came out with them after a few people got electrocuted on the metal chassis.....

And to think, they brought back that brand name at Sears. Next, "Cruise the Atlantic on the New Titanic!"?

 

[andy_horton]

I feel like that while HD is now the standard, SD is being somewhat overlooked. Many people still have SD tv's, and many without HD tv's. That being said, you can now get HD tv's for really good prices if you just look for a deal.

 

[gregleg]

No it will be selectable on each Joey / Hopper.

Some HD folks dont like the Title Art for their DVR listings so they will have an option to set it back to a list.

That will address our #1 gripe. So far I love our Hopper/Joey setup, but my wife and I both miss the simple lists. She also needs a larger, higher contrast font option even on our HDTVs. (Ironically, even though my eyes are worse than hers, I'm far more used to small fonts and the like from working as a developer all day, so I have no problems seeing the text even on our remaining soon-to-be-retired SD set)

Of course, by the time they roll out a list option we're going to be used to the icons

 

[CallMeDavid]

Just the option of adjustable font size could make all the difference here. Chances are the UI is java/xml based, and allowing adjustable font sizes is only a few lines of code.