Marlins BENCH Ramirez INDEFINATELY for 'lack of hustle'...

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salsadancer7

salsadancer7

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Original poster
Jun 1, 2004
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...and this can get REALLY ugly. I think had every right to bench him. IF you are injured, say so and come out. IF you are alrighty to play hard...


MIAMI -- Florida Marlins shortstop Hanley Ramirez defended his play Tuesday and took shots at his manager and teammates, a day after he was pulled from a game for not hustling.

Ramirez, a two-time All-Star and last year's NL batting champion, wasn't in manager Fredi Gonzalez's starting lineup against the Arizona Diamondbacks. On Monday night, he accidentally kicked a ball and then lightly jogged after it, allowing two runs to score.

"It's his team. He can do whatever," Ramirez said, mixing in an expletive. "There's nothing I can do about it."

"That's OK. He doesn't understand that. He never played in the big leagues," he said.

Responded Gonzalez: "He's right, but I know how to play the game."

"I played six years in the minor leagues and I know what it takes to play this game and I know the effort it takes to play this game," he said.

It seemed unlikely Ramirez would say he was sorry.

"We got a lot of people dogging it after ground balls," he said. "They don't apologize."
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[ame="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=5197935"]Hanley Ramirez of Florida Marlins rips skipper Fredi Gonzalez after benching - ESPN[/ame]
 
yep.....REAL ugly.....

Ramirez said he lost some respect for Gonzalez for the episode.

"A little bit. We got 24 more guys out there," Ramirez said. "Hopefully they can do the same things I can do. They're wearing the Marlins uniform."

Veteran infielder Wes Helms hopes Ramirez apologizes to his teammates.

"I can't overlook it," Helms said. "I know people say that's just the way he is, but you know what? That's not the way it is. That's not the way the game's supposed to be played.

"And that's what we want from Hanley. We want him to be that guy that goes out there every day ... and busts his butt and does anything he can for his this team. That right there will earn the respect of not only his teammates, but everybody in the league."
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Read More: Marlins' Hanley Ramirez fires back at manager Fredi Gonzalez - MLB - SI.com
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Wow, that is ugly!!!

As I've said before, there isn't a player in baseball with more talent than Han-Ram. But you can't be insubordinate to that extreme...........that's just awful!! :eek:

Maybe it's no coincidence that when Hanley first came up with the Red Sox in late 2005, the player he looked up to was Manny Ramirez. ;)
 
BillD1984 said:
Wow, that is ugly!!!

As I've said before, there isn't a player in baseball with more talent than Han-Ram. But you can't be insubordinate to that extreme...........that's just awful!! :eek:

Maybe it's no coincidence that when Hanley first came up with the Red Sox in late 2005, the player he looked up to was Manny Ramirez. ;)
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His comments on the radio show how ugly this is gonna get. He stated, "what can I do, it's his f***ing team....":eek::eek:
 
BillD1984 said:
Wow, that is ugly!!!

As I've said before, there isn't a player in baseball with more talent than Han-Ram.
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Seriously? He is very good, and has the potential to excel, but the most talented in all of baseball? C'mon!
 
On ESPN this morning, they said that there has been animosity between him and management for quite a while, and that for management to be doing this, it has to be because all of the more discrete ways they have tried to gtet him to consistently play hard have failed.
 
Jimbo said:
What is his contract status ?
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From Wikipedia:

(In 2008), Ramírez agreed to a six-year, $70 million extension, by far making it the richest contract in Marlin history and furthermore making him the face of the franchise through the new stadium in 2012.

MLB.com has reported that Ramírez will get $23.5 million in his arbitration years of 2009 through 2011, $15 million in 2012, $15.5 million in 2013 and $16 million in 2014. There is a no trade clause included in the deal.
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At this point, I think he''d be amenable to waiving the no trade clause.
 
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I bet this gets blown over in time, he's got a huge contract .....

Is this his way of getting out of town and over to the Yanks, Red Sox, other high spending team ?
trade deadline time ?


Didn't I just post the other day that the Tigers really need a top notch SS ?

Before you ask, Yes, I would, Dombrowski already has a relationship with the Marlins .....

He is a top notch ball player, maybe a change of scenery would help him...

I would put him in the top 10-15 players out there.
 
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I would have benched him too. If he is hurt then he shouldn't have been playing in the first place if he couldn't run fast.
 
Jimbo said:
I bet this gets blown over in time, he's got a huge contract .....

Is this his way of getting out of town and over to the Yanks, Red Sox, other high spending team ?
trade deadline time ?


Didn't I just post the other day that the Tigers really need a top notch SS ?

Before you ask, Yes, I would, Dombrowski already has a relationship with the Marlins .....

He is a top notch ball player, maybe a change of scenery would help him...

I would put him in the top 10-15 players out there.
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I thought the lack of effort might be from the team being out of contention, but they are right in the thick of thing only 4 gb.

Has the lack of hustle been an ongoing thing with him ?

Was this a fluke isolated incident ?
 
Jimbo said:
I thought the lack of effort might be from the team being out of contention, but they are right in the thick of thing only 4 gb.

Has the lack of hustle been an ongoing thing with him ?

Was this a fluke isolated incident ?
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Well...last year, he was questioned about his lack of effort by Dan Uggla and it almost came to blows. The problem with the team is there is a lack of team leadership within the players. Most of the team is still VERY young.

NOW, this is Freddi Gonzalez the manager. He made his point by benching him. It is now HIS job to get this thing fixed by either him talking to Ramirez DIRECTLY so they can move on or a player or a team from upper management sits down and talks to him because Ramirez stated he will NOT apologize to the team.
 
raoul5788 said:
Seriously? He is very good, and has the potential to excel, but the most talented in all of baseball? C'mon!
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He is SO GOOD that he is EASILY considered one of the top 10 players in the league by just about every single baseball analyst that covers baseball. MOST, think he is top 5.

...he is THAT good.
 
Talent wise you would definitely place Ramirez in the top ten, possibly top five. The only players off the top of my head who I would definitely put ahead of Ramirez right now are Pujols, Halladay and Lincecum. After that you can definitely make an argument for Ramirez and a whole bunch of other guys 4-10.

That's talent-wise. But since the possibility of Ramirez playing for the Yankees or the Red Sox in the future has already been brought up, it should be mentioned that may not be the best place for such a sensitive player. Don't be walking after live baseballs in New York, Boston, Philly etc., or you'll be at war with an entire fan base, not just the manager.

There is also the question regarding whether Ramirez can perform under pressure. Right now he's playing in a place where your statistics are all that matter. I don't think he ever got into any big games with the Red Sox, but I may be wrong.

He would have to prove he can come through in the clutch like A-Rod has. ;)


Sandra
 
SandraC said:
Talent wise you would definitely place Ramirez in the top ten, possibly top five. The only players off the top of my head who I would definitely put ahead of Ramirez right now are Pujols, Halladay and Lincecum. After that you can definitely make an argument for Ramirez and a whole bunch of other guys 4-10.

That's talent-wise. But since the possibility of Ramirez playing for the Yankees or the Red Sox in the future has already been brought up, it should be mentioned that may not be the best place for such a sensitive player. Don't be walking after live baseballs in New York, Boston, Philly etc., or you'll be at war with an entire fan base, not just the manager.

There is also the question regarding whether Ramirez can perform under pressure. Right now he's playing in a place where your statistics are all that matter. I don't think he ever got into any big games with the Red Sox, but I may be wrong.

He would have to prove he can come through in the clutch like A-Rod has. ;)


Sandra
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and Miguel Cabrera
 
SandraC said:
Talent wise you would definitely place Ramirez in the top ten, possibly top five. The only players off the top of my head who I would definitely put ahead of Ramirez right now are Pujols, Halladay and Lincecum. After that you can definitely make an argument for Ramirez and a whole bunch of other guys 4-10.

That's talent-wise. But since the possibility of Ramirez playing for the Yankees or the Red Sox in the future has already been brought up, it should be mentioned that may not be the best place for such a sensitive player. Don't be walking after live baseballs in New York, Boston, Philly etc., or you'll be at war with an entire fan base, not just the manager.

There is also the question regarding whether Ramirez can perform under pressure. Right now he's playing in a place where your statistics are all that matter. I don't think he ever got into any big games with the Red Sox, but I may be wrong.

He would have to prove he can come through in the clutch like A-Rod has. ;)


Sandra
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My thoughts earlier was, if he was on a team that had veteran leadership, he may be doing things differently.

As for the pressure of the bigger stage, your right, some can and some can't.

Some yankee fans STILL don't think A-Rod has come thru for them.
 
Jimbo said:
Some yankee fans STILL don't think A-Rod has come thru for them.
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Actually this is not a true statement. The correct statement would be that some Yankee fans do not accept A-Rod as a true Yankee, they way they consider Jeter, Cano, Posada, Mariano, Pettitte, Joba, etc., as true Yankees.

Players such as Paul O'Neil, David Cone and David Wells were able to overcome not coming up through the Yankee system and still work their way into the hearts of Yankee fans. A-Rod and Roger Clemens will always be considered outsiders.

That said, every Yankee fan is completely aware of what A-Rod did for us last October, and we applaud and thank him for it. The noise and anticipation in the Stadium Monday night, when A-Rod came to bat with a chance to tie the game in the bottom of the ninth against Papelbon, was very very real. Every Yankee fan now knows Alex Rodriguez is one of the best clutch hitters on the team, and possibly in all of baseball.

And we will cheer him every time he ties or wins a game for us.


Sandra
 
salsadancer7 said:
He is SO GOOD that he is EASILY considered one of the top 10 players in the league by just about every single baseball analyst that covers baseball. MOST, think he is top 5.

...he is THAT good.
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Maybe, but that doesn't make him the most talented in baseball, especially with less than five years in the game. Obviously he still has a lot to prove. Talent is more than just raw ability.
 

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