Montana PBS Cure

[Keith Brannen]

Many of us have experienced problems while trying to receive a stable Montana PBS that doesn't do a SQ 75 (or whatever) to 0 dance causing pixelation, freeze-ups, etc. Most recently posted here: http://www.satelliteguys.us/free-air-fta-discussion/270748-montana-pbs-impossible-catch.html (see my comments on page 2 as to what I experienced).

Anyhow, the weather was unseasonably warm a couple of days ago, so I decided to replace the LNB (a Digiwave standard linear) with one of my many spares to see if one would give a better signal to help alleviate the SQ yo-yo dance. My SQ for Montana PBS (when I could glimpse it before it did a dance, or on the rare times that it locked in) has always been in the 70s to high 80s.

I decided first to try one of my Fortec Star universal LNBs (I bought several during the beginnings of my FTA, before I realized the extent of my addiction, and the general need for standard linears). Checked the SQ on the other transponders on 125, levels were around the same (some a tiny bit lower). BUT... Montana PBS, which had been glitchy minutes before the change, was now locked without any problems! No matter what I did (changed channels, turned off/on the receiver, etc.) it always acquired a lock, and held!

It has now been almost two days since the switch, and still it locks (and holds) and doesn't do the dance (except the odd time for a second or two when I first go to the channel, usually when coming from a different satellite). Was able to watch the Saturday night British comedies for the first time in a long time without any glitches. I am a happy camper!

Anyhow, for any others experiencing the same problems, if you can, switch out the LNB, and see whether a different one can make a difference. Of course, YMMV.

 

[skysurfer]

1.2m dish, invacom LNBF. no problems ever!!

I don't know why people expect good things to occur with DVB-S2 signals when they have $10-15 asian **** LNB(F)'s....

 

[TRG]

Which dish and what model Invacom LNBF are you using?

 

[eurosport]

1.2m dish, invacom LNBF. no problems ever!!

I don't know why people expect good things to occur with DVB-S2 signals when they have $10-15 asian **** LNB(F)'s....

My ku dishes have the original Primestar LNBs on them and everything works fine....till I hit the Montana transponder. Then I get a brief pixelated image & the box re-boots. Every time.

Sent from my DROIDX using SatelliteGuys

 

[skysurfer]

Fortec Star 1.2m dish (self-modified to get better performance than the standard install) and a Invacom QPH-031 LNBF.

 

[Andrew K]

I also have the Invacom LNB... the SNH-031, and I have no problems at all. The signal is low, but I get a watchable picture all the time, and I use a 76 cm dish.

 

[cyberham]

...The signal is low, but I get a watchable picture all the time...

I can say the same regarding reception of LPB on 87W. It seems with DVB-S2 that very low measured signal quality (10-15%) still delivers visually clear reception once the receiver locks onto the signal. Normally on my S9 with a DVB-S signal, I need at least 45% or higher to watch a station reliably.

 

[oblio]

1.2m dish, invacom LNBF. no problems ever!!

I don't know why people expect good things to occur with DVB-S2 signals when they have $10-15 asian **** LNB(F)'s....[/QUOTE

Maybe a more expensive LNB will be better but I'd think like most digital devices LNB's either work or they don't. Isn't the difference between price ranges going to be sensitivity and ability to discriminate and pass on the signal with minimal signal loss? If you are in a fringe reception area for the same dish set up and cable run maybe one LNB will give you better Q than another but if you are solidly in a desired footprint do you get much bang for the buck if the difference is say 76% Q instead of 74%. Seems like dish aiming and dish design will be much more important for weaker signals than the LNB cost or brand will be, especially for a sat that has the dish highly skewed. I've found dish tweaking for Montana PBS to change the skew just a wee bit resulted in a much stronger signal and even if I dropped a few percent of Q at the eastern end of the arc, my cheap Fortec lnb is just fine.

Maybe the answer is that some may need a more expensive LNB (assuming better but that is another discussion) if they are geography challenged, have long cable runs etc. but not all of us need to go that route and can use "cheap" just fine.

 

[AcWxRadar]

I am surprised that anyone would have trouble with Montana PBS. I pull this signal down with a quality reading of 96-97% indicated on the meter of my AZBox Premium Plus. I have a 1.2 M GeoSat PRO dish with an Invacom QPH-031 LNBF and a DG-380 motor.

The LNBF itself is not exactly a major factor in the equation. Almost all LNBFs work exceptionally well. A $6 vs a $120 LNBF changes the quality very little. The higher dollar LNBFs are usually more expensive because they are providing you with added features like multiple outputs or C + L band or low + high Ku band capabilities, etc. Unless your LNBF is pure junk right off the shelf, there is little difference in the reception.

The important factor here is three fold, possibly four. The first is the size and geometry of the dish. Second is how well the LNBF is matched to the dishes physical geometry. Third is the IRD's tuner quality. AND the most important of all is the alignment of the dish and motor tracking of the arc.

I have always utilized the Invacom QPH-031 LNBFs, so I never questioned the reception. I always concentrated on the size of the dish and the alignment of the dish and motor. When I tried a less expensive LNBF, I noticed very little change in signal reception quality. Some actually improved the signal.

Getting the LNBF and the dish geometry to match are important. Sometimes the focal distance is extremely important. Sometimes the two are so well matched that the focal distance does not seem to make a great deal of difference. You will discover this as you simply experiment with your components.

The dish size is important here, but so is the actual geometry of the dish. A 75cm Winegard dish is excellent, but I found the larger 1 M Winegard to be extremely selective (more difficult to align as it seemed to focus too tightly). The larger dish could increase the signal quality substantially, but was extremely touchy to align. Being much heavier, it proved to be a poor choice for a motorized system in my opinion. If the dish is highly focused, then you must be especially critical of your alignment and arc tracking. My 1.2 M GeoSat PRO dish proved to be much more reliable. It was not so focused that it became unforgiving if it were not precisely aligned and it was not so heavy that the motor couldn't handle it.

I have compared the 75 cm Winegard and the 1.2 M GeoSat PRO closely. I would recommend either highly. But, I would rate the 1 M Winegard as a poor choice for a motorized system as the alignment does become so critical. There are other sized dishes in between that I have not experimented with, so I cannot provide an evaluation of them.

The tuner within the IRD has a lot to do here. If it is of good quality, it proves itself. If it is not, they often adjust the meter to make it appear better by numbers or scaling that is not accurate. A receiver with a poor tuner and a falsely scaled meter can be very deceiving (which is why we do not compare apples to oranges).

In summary, there are quite a few factors that you must be aware of and the most critical is the actual dish (and motor) alignment. The LNBF is one of the lesser factors here. Most all LNBFs provide acceptable performance, even if they are only priced at $12.

Just keep all of my statements in mind when you are setting up your system and selecting components.

RADAR

 

[cyberham]

I am surprised that anyone would have trouble with Montana PBS...the most critical is the actual dish (and motor) alignment...

Well written. Being in Omaha, I'm sure you have a strong signal from 125W without reaching to the end of your motor's travel, more so than I do at 64W. The most critical factor is actually physical location once a dish is installed since you can't do anything about this factor after-the-fact. Everything else can be addressed. Even here, I know 125W can be received, but I'm curious to try for Montana now that I have my DVB-S2 receiver.

 

[Keith Brannen]

Other than Montana PBS, I have never had any problem with any other S2 signal on the various dishes and LNBs that I have, except for the standard reasons of a really low SQ due to either dish size (on a 60e, for example), or LNB distance from the dish centre, or lack of uplink/downlink power.

Montana PBS has never had a low SQ for me, always in the 70s to high 80s (usually 78-80 range). It has always been either the same SQ as OETA, or slightly lower. It was usually higher than LPB when it was on the satellite. Never have had any problems with OETA or LPB. When LPB had its nightly drop off episode, the signal would be fine until it dropped into the 40s. Yet Montana PBS could rarely hold its signal 30 odd points higher.

My dish and LNB skew have always been peaked for Montana PBS. I am also in the 50 dBW EIRP area footprint.

As has been documented on this site (and others) there is a problem with the Montana PBS signal which isn't based solely on dish size (though a larger dish has helped some) or any other factors that normally would easily account for the problems.

For me, the switching of LNBs worked, and I only assume that the Fortec Star universal, and, obviously, higher end LNBs, are able to consistently hold the signal throughout whatever the signal problem is, whether frequency drift from the source, etc.

 

[Keith Brannen]

Quick update. Had some rain last night, Montana PBS SQ dropped to 60-61 (down from the usual 78-80) and the signal still locked and held (no pixelation at all).

 

[southofi-10]

So whats the actual model number?
I did a search,and came up with at least 3 differant styles single universal lnbs by fortec star.
I'm wuilling to try a new lnb,but would like to know which one specific your using.

 

[Keith Brannen]

So whats the actual model number?
I did a search,and came up with at least 3 differant styles single universal lnbs by fortec star.
I'm wuilling to try a new lnb,but would like to know which one specific your using.

The model number is FSKU-V.

 

[southofi-10]

Thanks
I'll test it and see if I get the same results.
And report.
Just for your info_ I also found these fortec lnb universal signal..
FSKU-K,,FSKU-VN,,FSHD-LO1

 

[Keith Brannen]

Thanks
I'll test it and see if I get the same results.
And report.
Just for your info_ I also found these fortec lnb universal signal..
FSKU-K,,FSKU-VN,,FSHD-LO1

Good luck, hope you get the same results as I did.

 

[southofi-10]

I tried the fortec lnb without any improvement.
I did get improvement with a NEW Chaparral Universal LNB Single Lnbf. (c&p)
This is a great lnb at only 7.99 from satpro.tv.
Super fast shipping-Good service
The signal still bounces,but doesn't drop out completely as before.The signal quality is only around 35,but it's enough for my op10 to lock on and give a watchable channel.
So with all this,I guess it comes down to your receiver,location,size of dish and lnb.Among a few other things,LOL

 

[Keith Brannen]

I tried the fortec lnb without any improvement.
I did get improvement with a NEW Chaparral Universal LNB Single Lnbf. (c&p)
This is a great lnb at only 7.99 from satpro.tv.
Super fast shipping-Good service
The signal still bounces,but doesn't drop out completely as before.The signal quality is only around 35,but it's enough for my op10 to lock on and give a watchable channel.
So with all this,I guess it comes down to your receiver,location,size of dish and lnb.Among a few other things,LOL

While the Fortec Star didn't work for you (might be the low SQ?), at least you did find improvement with a different LNB from the one you were originally using. Any way to get a watchable Montana PBS by changing LNBs is definitely an extra option to the usual "get a bigger dish" cry!

 

[southofi-10]

I could have put up a bigger dish,but I figured it wasn't worth that much trouble for 1 channel.
2 maybe,but not 1.
And maybe if I had,I might be getting a stronger quality and much better signal.
But as I said before.All that trouble is not worth it in my opinion.
As you suggested Kieth,it might well be worth swapping lnbs and see what happens.My swap never changed the signal on the other transponders.
I do find it unusual that this signal "bounces"or "pulses" like that.But I find alot of things unusual,LOL