MPEG-4, what's the big deal!
- Thread starter shodobe
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It's a big deal if you are looking to buy HD equipment that will be obsoleted in the next couple years.shodobe said:
If you are leasing - who cares.
MPG4 is a newer compression method that compresses better.
Shawn
Will be better start using H.264 term since MPEG-4 as-is doesn't utilizing by satellite companies.
Shawn95GT said:
I actually disagree with you Shawn. I think the leasee's are going to get the short end of the stick. If you lease a 942 today, and fork out $250 up front and $5/month, in 24 months when you'll want to upgrade to the 962 you would have spent $370 and get nothing in return. E* will just offer you a new opportunity to lease a 962 at another $250 or so up front. So you'll spend $620 and still have to give them $5/month and not own your equipment. For about the same $620 now, you can get a 942. Then upgrade to a 962 later on for $99 and a one or two year committment (just speculation on my part), and own your equipment with no $5/month lease fee. Even though this is speculation, think about it. E* would have to do something like this to their best customers or lose them. For those of you that want me to put my money where my mouth is, I did and purchased my two 942's. And to pay for them I sold my 921 and 721 to help pay for them. You can do that when you own your own boxes, but you can't if you lease.
We all want MPEG4. If E* can realize its full potential, then they will be able to use their existing satellite HD transponders to carry 50%-100% more channels.
But once they switchover to MPEG4, all of the existing HD receivers will have to be replaced, as none of them can decode MPEG4. It looks like it will be 1 to 2 years before we see much MPEG4 in production, and even then the present receivers may work for a while longer after that, until Dish can migrate all of them and complete the transition.
But once they switchover to MPEG4, all of the existing HD receivers will have to be replaced, as none of them can decode MPEG4. It looks like it will be 1 to 2 years before we see much MPEG4 in production, and even then the present receivers may work for a while longer after that, until Dish can migrate all of them and complete the transition.
Well there is a reason I don't have Dish Network at the momentDVDDAD said:
.I can't justify paying $250 for the ability to lease a end of life receiver. I'll be holding out for MPG4 stuff.
Shawn
Yes, I would say that the part about E* offering 942 owners an option to upgrade to a 962 for $99 is indeed speculation. Even wild speculation. Particularly if you think that E* is going to ask 942 leasees to pony up another $250 for a 962 lease.
Why in the world would E* ask people on the lease option for $250 while offering a buy option for $99???
I think 942 owners will be very lucky if they get a $399 trade-in / buy option on a 962.
Let's assume they get this lucky $399 option. Their 4 year cost would be $700 plus $400 for $1100. The worst case scenario is $700 + $700 for $1400. The $700 in the 942 would be completely lost too, as it will have no value once MPEG4 is implemented.
Someone leasing would pay $250 + $250 + (48x5) = $740. And this is the WORST case scenario for leasing, as no way is the lease going to be over $250. And there is a fair chance that they would get a break on the 962 lease. For example, I leased an 811 for $99. Then I upgraded to a leased 942 and E* gave me a substantial credit for the 811 on my 942 lease.
Over a 4 year period, I estimate that people buying a 942 now and a 962 later will likely pay 1.5 to 2.0 times what a lease would have cost them. I don't expect E* to do a lot for those who bought 942s. Just like Dell doesn't give any additional discounts or trade-in to people who bought Dell computers three years ago. These are consumable electronic devices. Whatever value you are going to get out of them will come from your use of them.
I can't imagine E* taking a $400-$500 hit on every 942 (or 921) they ever sold, which is what would happen if they offered a 962 replacement for $99. Perhaps people who buy them in the last 6-12 months before the MPEG conversion will get an aggressive trade-in offer.
Why in the world would E* ask people on the lease option for $250 while offering a buy option for $99???
I think 942 owners will be very lucky if they get a $399 trade-in / buy option on a 962.
Let's assume they get this lucky $399 option. Their 4 year cost would be $700 plus $400 for $1100. The worst case scenario is $700 + $700 for $1400. The $700 in the 942 would be completely lost too, as it will have no value once MPEG4 is implemented.
Someone leasing would pay $250 + $250 + (48x5) = $740. And this is the WORST case scenario for leasing, as no way is the lease going to be over $250. And there is a fair chance that they would get a break on the 962 lease. For example, I leased an 811 for $99. Then I upgraded to a leased 942 and E* gave me a substantial credit for the 811 on my 942 lease.
Over a 4 year period, I estimate that people buying a 942 now and a 962 later will likely pay 1.5 to 2.0 times what a lease would have cost them. I don't expect E* to do a lot for those who bought 942s. Just like Dell doesn't give any additional discounts or trade-in to people who bought Dell computers three years ago. These are consumable electronic devices. Whatever value you are going to get out of them will come from your use of them.
I can't imagine E* taking a $400-$500 hit on every 942 (or 921) they ever sold, which is what would happen if they offered a 962 replacement for $99. Perhaps people who buy them in the last 6-12 months before the MPEG conversion will get an aggressive trade-in offer.
Shawn95GT said:
The kicker is how long an existing sub would have to wait to get a 962 for the $250 lease. E* waited for about a year after the introduction of the 942 before offering them to existing subs for the $250 lease option. Perhaps they will be more aggressive this time in order to facilitate the adoption of the 962, as it will be in their long-term interest to get MPEG4 boxes out quickly.
If the option is a $250 lease for a 942 now, vs an option to get a 962 for $250 in six months, then holding out sounds like the best bet.
But if that option doesn't materialize for 12-15 months, then one has to consider how much of a pain it is to not have HD-DVR functionality.
I just popped on a 942 lease because they gave me credit for my 811 lease, bringing the 942 lease to well under $250. If I get 18 months use out of the 942, I will be quite satisfied with the deal. Especially considering that the monthly lease fee is the same for the 811 or 942 - and I have no DVR fee with the AEP, so there were no extra costs beyond the upfront charge.
(Later edit) Let me amend that. Since I'm replacing a 510 and an 811 with the 942, I will be saving $5/mon on receiver fees as opposed to before. If I sell off the 510 and keep the 942 for 18 months, the 942 option will be cheaper than keeping my present setup.
Tom Bombadil said:
I sometimes wonder if some people ever stop to consider that!
A lot of folks bad mouth the $250 lease fee. While possibly not ideal, I look at it this way: I certainly couldnt have afforded to drop $700 on one, but for my $250/$5mo, I have one that I thoroughly enjoy and have for over 6 months now.
Now it seems alot of other folks are cheating themselves out of having a HD-DVR over the whole MPEG4 deal, what (or when) it will happen. In technology, if you keep waiting for the next thing...you'll never get anything!
Yep. And if one drops $2000-$2500 on a HDTV set, buys a nice DVD player, pays Dish $75 or more in monthly programming fees ($900/yr), and buys a multi-channel audio system, then another $250 for the 942 is pretty cheap, given how it makes the entire rest of your system more accessible for watching your favorite shows.
The $250 kinda seemed like a scam at first but after I popped for it I would have to say it was worth it. E* has stated it will be some time for MPEG 4 is ready. How long?? Who knows for sure, but I think a year is not unreasonable to believe. So, $250 for HD DVR that for the most part works well has been a good deal to me. Sitting around waiting for MPEG 4 to fully materialize is like waiting for the next great computer technology to come out, you'll never purchase one because there will always be something new and better around the corner.
(RECENT POST:Will be better start using H.264 term since MPEG-4 as-is doesn't utilizing by satellite companies.)
HUH? Is your name Earl??
HUH? Is your name Earl??
DWS44 said:
I agree completely - just got the 942 w/250 lease deal and I couldn't be happier! I am selling two old receivers which will bring in 300-400 to more than pay for the lease. If you weigh all of the HD DVR possibilities out there, this isn't a bad deal at all. And who knows what will happen w/mpeg-4, it will be 1-2 years out at least.
Everyone started to discuss leasing and got away from the original question but I think I did decipher the answer buried in some responses. Mostly it compresses and allows for more channels, correct? I am slowly getting into the HDTV mode and probably will get one this spring, but it seems I should wait until the 962 comes out later in the year. Direct seems to be ahead of the game though, not sure what I will do. I have no real complaints with Dish but have considered switching, after 9 years.
I thought I gave you a very direct response in the 5th post in this thread.
DirecTV does seem to be ahead on the transition to MPEG4, although their "lead" may not result in anything extra being provided to most of the country. Some large DMAs may get their HD locals sooner, but Dish may be able to match that through using their Rainbow-1 satellite and 8PSK-turbo, which combined may give Dish more capacity than DirecTV with present MPEG4 technology.
DirecTV does seem to be ahead on the transition to MPEG4, although their "lead" may not result in anything extra being provided to most of the country. Some large DMAs may get their HD locals sooner, but Dish may be able to match that through using their Rainbow-1 satellite and 8PSK-turbo, which combined may give Dish more capacity than DirecTV with present MPEG4 technology.
Tom, you were really the only one that answered my question. It seems everyone else got sidelined with leasing discussions. The questioned was answered, and I thank you. It seems to be a "wait and see" thing about where Dish will be with this subject in the next year. I would prefer to stay with Dish because of the convience but don't want to be left behind over the HD issue. This next year is my upgrade to HD and want to get the equipment that will last a few years and not become obsolete in a few months. Again, thanks for the info. Mike
Mpeg4 is a newer compression method versus mpeg2 and reduces the video stream by at leaset half.shodobe said:
I would not be in such a hurry to get a mpeg4 receiver until dish announces which (HD) channels they're going to encode in mpeg4. They can't encode the major HD paks until they have a game plan of providing enough receivers/DVRs to current customers at little or no cost. They will most likely start the HD locals in mpeg4 so if you're getting them free OTA then you won't be interested in subscribing to that.
