Need Advice Why Bud Dish Declination Is Way Off? See Pics

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jsattv

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jul 4, 2006
1,061
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Declination on my 12 Footer Way Off?
Finally located at a large automotive supply store a $15.00 Magnetic Polycast Protractor (see attached Picture) and measured the 2 Bars on the 12 Footer re Inclination and Declination. The top Little Bar read 57 degrees??? Shouldn't it be 6.6 degrees? The big Square Bar re Inclination read 47 degrees - think it should be 50.6 degrees? The Protractor was placed on the bottom side of each bar. My major concern is could the Declination be that far out - it should read 6.58 degrees and I'm getting 57 degrees, or am I doing something wrong? (Dish pole is absolutely level and plumb from all directions). I've also included a picture before the Actuator was mounted, actually seems like the only thing holding up the Dish and Ring is the Actuator. I'm wondering this because in struggling to mount and put in the dish screws on the ring one of us made the dish go completely vertical. And to put on the Actuator/Motor we had to bring the Dish forward to get the 2 Bolts in. See pictures.

Any help / advice would be very much appreciated.
 

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voomvoom

SatelliteGuys Master
Lifetime Supporter
May 18, 2004
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Lizella, Georgia Republic
If I remember right from the thread the other day, the top bar should be at 57.2 degrees on that top bar? The big square bar should be at 50.6, so if it's at 47, then you need to adjust it to 50.6, and then adjust the top bar to 57.2, and that would make the declination be 6.6.
The Protractor should read the 57 (.2) and not 6.6. The 6.6 is the difference from the 50.6 degrees the big bar should be at, so if you add the 6.6 to 50.6, you will get 57.2. And thats where the dish reflector should be pointing?

Al
 

jsattv

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jul 4, 2006
1,061
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If I remember right from the thread the other day, the top bar should be at 57.2 degrees on that top bar? The big square bar should be at 50.6, so if it's at 47, then you need to adjust it to 50.6, and then adjust the top bar to 57.2, and that would make the declination be 6.6.
The Protractor should read the 57 (.2) and not 6.6. The 6.6 is the difference from the 50.6 degrees the big bar should be at, so if you add the 6.6 to 50.6, you will get 57.2. And thats where the dish reflector should be pointing?

Al

Thanks very much voomvoom. Boy its sure great that there are genius's like you on this great site to provide help to us newer guys. So declination is the difference between the 2 measurements - great! I'll make the adjustments as you have advised. Measured that Big Adjustment Bolt & its about 1 &1/8 inches, so unless I use my Vice Grips I'll need to get a new wrench at the Auto place. Thanks.
 

Anole

SatelliteGuys Master
Sep 22, 2005
11,819
12
L.A., Calif.
nice BUD

1). first picture: beautiful inclinometer !

2). 2nd picture: nice pix, nice dish, but can't tell anything from this angle
- the dish is fully flopped over to one side.

3). 3rd picture: nice shot, nice overview.
- from this angle there's not much to say
- the dish needs to be at the top of the arc for setup

4). 4th picture: now I love this one!
- even though you're not on your true south satellite (not at the top of the arc), I can see the declination.
- I measure about 5º !
- and for doing it from way over here, that's close enough!
- I won't argue over a degree or two, but you are certainly in the ballpark.

If you haven't been directed to this site before, may I suggest you read up on the geometry here?
(start about half way down the page)
It's where I finally got a clue about setting up BUDs.
Of course, I had to read it a whole bunch of times before it sunk in. :cool:
 

gpat

SatelliteGuys Pro
Oct 27, 2007
323
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they sell those protractors at Sears under the Craftsman name
Ive replaced mine with a digitial Craftsman level thats the greatest thing since sliced bread.
Those protractors work best upside down so the pendulum is hanging
 

jsattv

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jul 4, 2006
1,061
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Thanks Anole and Gpat. Anole, thanks for the Tip re Setup info & I'm curious just how the heck you can tell that the Declination is 5 degrees.
 

Anole

SatelliteGuys Master
Sep 22, 2005
11,819
12
L.A., Calif.
:D - Turbosat probably runs the anoles ragged in his garden!

As for how I know it's around 5º, . . .
I have my own lesser tilt meter, and I just measured two lines in your great photo (and took the difference).
Not exact, not the right viewing angle, but close enough to know it's around 5º, and not 10º or 20º. :cool:
 

jsattv

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jul 4, 2006
1,061
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Can only Get Satellite 99.0W on 12 Footer - Need Advice

If I remember right from the thread the other day, the top bar should be at 57.2 degrees on that top bar? The big square bar should be at 50.6, so if it's at 47, then you need to adjust it to 50.6, and then adjust the top bar to 57.2, and that would make the declination be 6.6.
The Protractor should read the 57 (.2) and not 6.6. The 6.6 is the difference from the 50.6 degrees the big bar should be at, so if you add the 6.6 to 50.6, you will get 57.2. And thats where the dish reflector should be pointing?

Al
12 Foot Dish not Tracking on the Clark Belt Arc except for Sat 99.0W - How to Fix?
Even though My V-Box III is Not working with my Actuator - I can move the 12Foot Dish with my 12 VDC Battery Charger, But I can ONLY get Galaxy 4R/C 99.0W when I move the Dish with the Battery Charger. When I try scanning for other Satellites close by I get nothing?? Could an Elevation Adjustment from 47 to 50.6 correct this problem? See new pictures with Norsat LNB's. Where the Dish is pointed is the ONLY location where I can pick up channels. If I move anywhere East or West from there I cannot get anything. What would be the best way to solve the Problem?
 

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turbosat

SatelliteGuys Master
Dec 26, 2006
9,001
75
Oneonta,AL
I'd start by putting the dish pointing due south and twist that lnb assmbly around to where it should be-lined up with the polar axis. The polarity motor should be lined up close to the north/south axis of the mount, that way it can get you both polarities. Turned too far either way and the motor will drive against its internal stops, eventually burning it up. Then, you can start working the tracking out. (which aint easy any more since there's not a lot of analog left to tweak by)
Let us know how it goes.
 

jsattv

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jul 4, 2006
1,061
8
when you stop at the next satellite over .... can you push up or down or left / right and get a signal??

Haven't tried that yet George, guess I would need to take the TV set outside to check, but the very cold weather is a problem today. I did rotate the FeedHorn to 10:30 for KU LNB and 4:30 for C Band LNB, as per Linuxman's suggestion. But it didn't change anything. I'm thinking either the Tracking on the Arc is out, or the Elevation needs adjusting. Strange that I'm receiving 99.0W though - but nothing else. It's brutally cold here these days with snow on the ground and a -30 degrees wind chill, so working outside other than minor adjustments is about all I can do for now.
 

jsattv

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jul 4, 2006
1,061
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Thanks for the suggestions Turbosat. I did rotate the LNB's around but it didn't help much.
 

Hermitman

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jul 2, 2006
420
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Limestone, Mi
It sounds like your dish mount is not lined up directly with true south. If your dish mount isn't correctly pointing to true south, you'll hit one satellite and then your dish arc will be too high on one side and too low on the other. If you make sure your pole is plumb, set your dish mount true south, then set your dish true south, then set your declination and elevation, the dish should track the arc with little or no adjusting. Here is a link to a site that is useful in setting up dishes. Good luck.

C-band Satellite Installation
 

jsattv

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jul 4, 2006
1,061
8
It sounds like your dish mount is not lined up directly with true south. If your dish mount isn't correctly pointing to true south, you'll hit one satellite and then your dish arc will be too high on one side and too low on the other. If you make sure your pole is plumb, set your dish mount true south, then set your dish true south, then set your declination and elevation, the dish should track the arc with little or no adjusting. Here is a link to a site that is useful in setting up dishes. Good luck.

C-band Satellite Installation

Thanks George and Hermitman. Yes Hermitman I think you are correct in that I am NOT on my True South Satellite which is 97.0W - (I've got 99.0W). Think I will try to slightly adjust the Pole to the West a bit. The Pole setup is completely Plumb when measured from 4 directions. See picture.
 

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Hermitman

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jul 2, 2006
420
0
Limestone, Mi
When setting up a BUD, ignore this "true south satellite" stuff. That's for a different type of satellite dish setup. You want to have your pole plumb, point your mount and dish true south (straight toward the south pole) and then set your declination and elevation. That will put you on the arc. Then just move the dish east or west until you receive a satellite.
 

gabshere

SatelliteGuys Pro
Aug 20, 2006
3,720
21
Rison , Arkansas
yes this is that axis arm.... Jsattv
thats why i was thinking you could go to where the next sat should be ( if you can get a signal ) and push on the dish. it would show if you are east or west of your mount being correctly south ( mine was off a small amount 3/32 of an inch ) so a small amount it actually a lot. before adjustment make a mark ( on the mount & pole) where its at and identify it so you can always go back to that if need to.
I know its colder up there so if you try it don't stay out to long.
i would mark everything, make a 1/4 inch adjustment to the west and go back inside and sweep the arc with the dish looking for a signal ( use a tp signal from a close satellite 101, 103 or 105) and adjust a couple of time till you find the arc. after a few adjustment and you don't find anything reset everything back to your mark and work east. once you find your arc your fine tuning adjustments will probably be smaller 1/8 or 1/16 of an inch to gain the best signal across the arc.

i really like hermitmans dish farm :)
 

jsattv

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jul 4, 2006
1,061
8
yes this is that axis arm.... Jsattv
thats why i was thinking you could go to where the next sat should be ( if you can get a signal ) and push on the dish. it would show if you are east or west of your mount being correctly south ( mine was off a small amount 3/32 of an inch ) so a small amount it actually a lot. before adjustment make a mark ( on the mount & pole) where its at and identify it so you can always go back to that if need to.
I know its colder up there so if you try it don't stay out to long.
i would mark everything, make a 1/4 inch adjustment to the west and go back inside and sweep the arc with the dish looking for a signal ( use a tp signal from a close satellite 101, 103 or 105) and adjust a couple of time till you find the arc. after a few adjustment and you don't find anything reset everything back to your mark and work east. once you find your arc your fine tuning adjustments will probably be smaller 1/8 or 1/16 of an inch to gain the best signal across the arc.

i really like hermitmans dish farm :)

Finally was able to move the Dish 7 Pole outside today. (We've had 3 snowstorms here in the last 4 days and - 28 degrees tonight). I chalked the previous position where I had 99.0W with a good signal, and moved the Pole over to the West about 1/8th of an inch. I was able to scan in 101.0W and got 6 channels: Cornerstone TV - CTVN 1 & 2, Golden Eagle Broadcasting, & God's Learning Channel. Then I drove the dish back inside the House with the 12 VDC Battery Charger to where there was a strong signal on a Tp on 99.0W but now I cannot get the channels as clear as I had them before on 99.0W - they are breaking up and Pixellizing, so I guess I am still NOT on the proper Arc in the Clark Belt. Its kind of like shooting in the dark, so maybe I'll try taking the TV and Sat Receiver outside in the next couple of days. Not sure what to try next, should I move the Pole slightly to the West again and look for a strong Signal say on the next C Band Sat ie 103.0W??
 

gabshere

SatelliteGuys Pro
Aug 20, 2006
3,720
21
Rison , Arkansas
since you moved the dish it might be a little bit further over to get a good signal or this would tell you , that you are going the wrong way . but so far sounds correct. good luck fighting the cold :)
 
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