Need Help - Lost 20% S and ALL Q Signalling on IA5 97.0W Due to Cold Weather?

[jsattv]

I have had my 1 meter Fortec Star Dish and Stab Motor combination working for about 3 weeks and today I've lost all Signalling. When I Set it up in mid December "S" levels on IA5 97.0W (my South Sat) were around 70%, with "Q" levels not much better than 50%. Temperatures then were around 0 degrees.

Last night and today the high temperature here in Winnipeg was 28 degrees below zero, with a wind chill of 40 degrees below zero. Turned on the Sat receiver and NO channels! Went into Antenna Settings for Sat 97.0W and discovered that "S" levels have dropped down 20 points, that is from 68 - 70 all the way down to 48. "Q" levels are zero, and I have no picture at all from any Satellites. Can the bitterly cold weather cause this? And what is the recommended fix, ie. realign the Dish Elevation when the weather gets warmer?? (The cold weather has NOT at all affected my Subscription Bell ExpressVu 9200 PVR receiver service that is on a separate Bell 22 inch Fixed Dish, - just the BIG Fortec Dish). Any comments would be appreciated.

 

[Tron]

Did you have strong winds with the cold front? It is possible that the wind knocked the dish out of alignment. Other than that, 28 below is bitterly cold (for my New Orleans body anyway ), but there are members here who routinely have below zero temps and no problems...

 

[Anole]

When reading your post, the winds immediately came to my mind ,too.
Especially if it's higher than the BEV dishes.

Also, does the motor still move the dish?
Can you run it end to end, and maybe re-zero it?

Lastly, what about the surface you mounted the dish on?
Is it different than where you BEV dish is mounted?
Could the weather have had an effect on the mounting post/pole, etc?

More like 60º/37ºF (or 15º/2ºC), out my way.
We're havin' a cold wave.

 

[Mr Tony]

it sounds like maybe the dish did get knocked off whack if it was windy. My motorized setup has been up (this will be the 4th winter) and even when it was -30F in the morning it still ran like a champ. (I'm just a little SE of you in MN)

What happens if you try and use Diseqc 1.2 to move the dish?

and I just heard its -48C with the windchill in Winnipeg (listening to Power97 at work)

 

[mastermesh]

Wind is known to knock dishes around. If you are lucky, like I am most of the time, your motors still sitting on the arc, just off a degree or two. Use either usals and add or subtract a few degrees to your current settings and see what happens, or try 1.2. I prefer the usals method since I can tell exactly what numbers are programmed in instead of guessing. Only thing that sucks is if it's off you'll either have to do like I did and subtract same amount of degrees from each bird in your setup in usals or 1.2 and/or go back and try to physically nudge it back in to place. I prefer to do the adding and subtracting bit since I spent a ton of time on 2-3 weekends to perfect alignment on the arc and almost every time that I try to manually nudge I have potential to screw up elevation settings a little, which is one thing I REALLY don't want to do since it'll take another long amount of time to tweak it back in to perfection on the arc.

 

[techboss]

I am also from Winnipeg, and I can confirm that the nice warm -48C temperature last night did not break the HH90 Stab. It works fine, but motor was a dog and move slower than usual. Signal Quality is the same. Invacom works flawlessly .

I feel pity for my Stab Motor under this weather tho !

 

[jsattv]

Thanks all for the helpful comments. Well its sunny today and -31 degrees below zero. "S" levels are back to 65 & I am able to get some channels on IA 5 97.0W but "Q" levels are only 10 to 12. Still can't get my favorite channel - "Russia Today" as "Q" levels are too low for it to come in. Went back into Antenna Settings and scrolled thru some Tp's, and at one point got "S" as high as 65 and "Q" as high as 35 with Green Bars showing. But I'm thinking as soon as the sun goes down I'll probably lose all my channels again. Could this be a dish elevation problem?

Going to bundle up & go outside and check the Fortec Dish & Stab Motor (from the ground), to see if anything has drastically changed. Maybe I'll take some pictures. Thanks.

 

[Tron]

I'm sure you have checked, but I have to wonder, is there a film of ice or snow on the dish?

I'll make a deal with you. I'll send some of our cr@ppy, balmy 70 degree (F) weather up your way if you send A SMALL BIT of your -30 weather down our way. Just a SMALL BIT though, moderation is a good thing!

 

[jsattv]

Need Help - Lost 20% S and ALL Q Signalling on IA5 97.0W Due to Cold Weather? Got Pic

I'm sure you have checked, but I have to wonder, is there a film of ice or snow on the dish?

I'll make a deal with you. I'll send some of our cr@ppy, balmy 70 degree (F) weather up your way if you send A SMALL BIT of your -30 weather down our way. Just a SMALL BIT though, moderation is a good thing!

Tron, I'd love to trade you for the nice weather. No visible snow on the Dish itself, but there is snow on the roof. Dish signalling is completely down again this evening with only 44 "S" and zero "Q". Took some pictures, I'll try to post them. Sure could use some suggestions.

 

[Tron]

Doesn't look like snow or ice are problems. My bet would be either that the wind knocked it out of alignment (try a few DiSEqC 1.2 nudges) or the temperature caused some movement (flex) somewhere from contraction.

 

[Anole]

probably nothing

By zooming in on your 3rd and 4th pictures, I see something on one leg of your pole support.
It looks like a coax cable goes into it from above, with no drip loop.
While I won't suggest this it the cause of your problem, you might want to see about re-dressing that cable, relocating the item (switch?), or covering it, to prevent moisture from running down the cable/connector into or onto whatever that is.
...that's assuming it ever warms up enough to have free water.

Beautiful sky.

 

[jsattv]

Anole, thanks for your comments, I think you may be referring to the Chieta DiseQc switch I used to fan out "L" and "C" from Invacom LNB to the 1 downlead to the ViewSat Receiver. I used plastic wire wrap ties and mounted the DiseQC Switch on one of the vertical legs of the Fortec Mount. I still do NOT understand or know where to get some good info on a Drip Loop, maybe it would help? Is there a Search function on these pages? I had thought that putting the DiseQC Switch on the Dish Leg would be better for drainage than mounting it on a flat surface.

I'm thinking from reading other posts that my original "S" (70) and "Q" (50) values must have just been borderline when I finally found IA5 97.0W in a SnowStorm on Dec 15 / 06. So now when its a lot colder could it mean a re adjustment of Dish Inclination is in order?

 

[jsattv]

Tron, thanks, could I ask what you mean by trying a few DisEqC nudges, since I'm using USALS right now? Do you mean change over to DisEqC motor settings?

 

[gabshere]

i think hes talking about using 1.2 in the motor movement if you had this ability you could set it to 1.2 and the receiver would let you nudge (fine tune ) a little bit east or west ( from inside) which you said wasn't listed on your viewsat in a earlier post. i don't know about the viewsat receiver. i know you listed user & installer as the other motor commands. i don't know what those mean. sorry

 

[Anole]

regarding drip loops in your cables...

I went to the master Dish Network forum, then did a "search this forum" in advanced mode, for: "drip loop"
There were 16 hits.
I looked through the hits with little paperclip icons on them, meaning there were pictures attached.
Didn't really find the perfect picture, but you might want to read through some of those threads.

Here's a good one:
Mike500 has a nice picture of his install on page 3 of this thread:
http://www.satelliteguys.us/showthread.php?t=58377&highlight="drip+loop"

Made the same search over in the DirecTV master forum.

Near the bottom of page 4 on this thread, Steve615 posted a good example of proper drip loops:
http://www.satelliteguys.us/showthread.php?t=57893&highlight="drip+loop"

 

[Keith Brannen]

I agree with what Anole had said, you may be getting water/ice in the coax connectors or at the switch. I notice that it doesn't look like you have a weatherproof boot on the ends of the coax at the LNB connections, is that the same at the DisEqC switch?

Also, is it a 4x1 or 2x1 DisEqC switch? If a 4x1, do you have the unused ports terminated?

Your problem reminds me of a problem I had last winter with my Star Choice system. After years of having no problems with the 2x2 multiswitch which was attached to the mount, we began to experience serious signal degradation and eventually lost all signal on one of the satellites (the mainly English one, naturally). It would usually be better during the day and then disappear at night. It was water/ice getting into the coax connector at the switch. Spent too many cold nights standing on a ladder with a hairdryer trying to get the signal back! All the coax connectors did have weatherproof boots, but obviously as they got older they didn't work as well. As a temporary solution I took the switch off the mount and put it on the soffit away from the elements, and this summer ran new coax and have the switch mounted in the basement.

My DisEqC switch for my FTA is also mounted in the basement. Of course, with your system on your roof that won't work for you, but there are covers/boxes you can get for your DisEqC switch to protect it.

 

[WyrTwister]

Doesn't look like snow or ice are problems. My bet would be either that the wind knocked it out of alignment (try a few DiSEqC 1.2 nudges) or the temperature caused some movement (flex) somewhere from contraction.

Another guess , some kind of coax or coax connector problem ( looseness ) .

Is there a difference between the H and the V TP's ?

Will the dish move when the signal disappears ?

Wyr

 

[jsattv]

Thanks for the replies WyrTwister, & Anole, - I found the great pictures of Drip Loops.

Also Keith Brannen I used a 4 IN 1 OUT WSD -2041 waterproof Heavy Duty Chieta DiSEqC Switch (1.5 dB loss) for the Invacom LNB "L" and "C" feeds. The 2 unused Ports are on the bottom of the Switch and were covered with a friction fit plastic cover that came with the Switch. It was purchased on ebay: http://cgi.ebay.ca/TWO-HEAVY-DUTY-CHIETA-DiSEqC-Satellite-Switch-BEST_WOQQitemZI...Name of the company is DVB Mart. I did NOT Terminate the 2 unused Ports, but they are on the bottom and covered with the plastic covers. What type of termination do I need for these 2 unused Ports? I hand threaded all connectors as much as I could, then used needle nose plyers to ensure that all these coax connections were tight. But not overtight.

Also I noticed this afternoon that the Dish and Motor are Tracking well on the Satellites in the Westerly Direction, but not so well on the Satellites in the Easterly Direction, - especially those East of IA5 97.0W such as SBS 6 74.0W and Pas 9 58.0W. Wondering why? Thanks.

 

[Mr Tony]

TI did NOT Terminate the 2 unused Ports, but they are on the bottom and covered with the plastic covers. What type of termination do I need for these 2 unused Ports?

that's fine. Then you wont need terminators sicne you used the plastic covers

 

[jsattv]

Thanks for the info IceBerg, don't know what else to try for now? It's just too cold and there is too much snow up on the Roof to try anything else for now. But at least the Dish and Motor are moving.