New 811 - A few observations

[SungSam]

I use both an 811 and 510 on my Sammy HL-P4663W DLP monitor. I'm using the 811 with s-video, Component and DVI connections. The 510 only has the s-video ouput. The bottom line is, if you are going to watch SD, the 510 has a better picture period. It doesn't matter what output you use on the 811 or what settings you change on the DLP. The 510 blows the 811 away on SD.

As far as HD, the 811 looks pretty awesome. Usually, I use the DVI output when viewing HD. It seems that component is close to DVI as far as picture quality, but component provides a brighter, more vibrant picture. I have had a few problems with HD channels becoming jerky. Usually, I just change the channel and go right back to the channel I was previously watching and it goes away. Also, from time to time, my remote will stop responding on the 811. The power button still works, so I end up turning the receiver off, and then back on. Then, I'm able to use the remote normally.

 

[SimpleSimon]

Nippjas seems to have solved at least some of his 811 problems by using a UPS to power the 811.

Might you have any power issues? Are you using a UPS? Can you try it?

 

[JAL]

I have noticed the same thing on my Panny 50--the component seems more vivid (color saturation) then DVI. Does anyone know why the DVI would be less vivid?

 

[nippjas]

My Opinion is...If your getting a better picture on component than DVI on a fixed pixel TV...(Plasma, LCD, DLP)...You need to call ISF for an input calibration. I can believe better saturation on a CRT (analog output) base TV since DVI would be sent into a D to A conversion prior to display...But on a digital fixed pixel set...you are getting a true uncompressed digital signal using DVI. In any case, most TV's are delivered optimized for analog cable...a picture calibration can work wonders.

As far as Simon's comments on my power problem...I will be updating the 811 thread at DBS Talk further later....I will be putting a line monitor on tomorrow to chart the input voltages.

Jason

 

[GaryPen]

You're assuming, of course, that all things are equal on the outputs of the 811. You know what happens when you assume!

A number of people have pointed out the same observation between the two outputs, also noting changes from one SW revision to the next. Given that, and Dish's tradition of poorly designed and implimented HW and SW, I wouldn't be so quick to blame the guy's display.

 

[nippjas]

I know where you stand on issues related to the 811 Gary. I agree with most of your stances...But I see a lot of people complain about how bad the 811's SD output is and these are the same people who spent 4 grand on a TV just to ignore the fact that these input specific settings CAN make a big difference. I think the 811 has very good SD...much better than the 301-10 I was using on this TV prior to getting the 811. I have played with external scaling units and while they did provide a lot better control of aspect ratio the results of PQ due to scaling were a little better to marginally the same as the 811's PQ output. Yes SW is a big variable on the 811...but until someone has sat down and really eliminated all of the variables...they also are just assuming.

Jason

 

[GaryPen]

I was only speaking of the DVI vs. Component outputs, which I believe is what the current discussion was about. In that regard, quite a few people have made the same comment about Component vs. DVI, expecially after the recent update. I'm just sayin'.

BTW, I, too, feel that my 721, and the 510 before it, provide better SD PQ than the 811. (Not counting, of course, OTA digital SD on the 811. That is the big winner in PQ.) Bear in mind that I am referring to SD from the HD outputs of the 811, set for 1080i. I know SD looks better on the 811, when it's set for 480p. But, I'm not about to navigate around the 811's menues to change output rez, every time I change channels.

 

[SungSam]

SS

 

[SungSam]

FWIW....Granted, I'm not an expert when it comes to tweaking a DLP with either a 510 or 811. I do know that I was blessed with the ability to tell the difference in picture quality, regardess of what's "supposed" to be better between a digital and analog input. I'm sure there are numerous differences between software, output and compression schemes used on each reciever. You can only adjust so much without accessing the service menus or having the set professionally calibrated. For the most part, the average user will not enter the service menus nor pay the price to have the set professionally calibrated, including me (at least for now). I don't have the luxury of determining the "OTA" results, as the nearest OTA broadcast station is over 100 miles away. I'm more than happy using the 510 to view SD and switching to the 811 to view HD. From my viewing prospective, it seems E* would have a winner on its hands if the 811 provided the the same quality SD viewing expierience as the 510. I may take the 301 out of the bedroom and see how it stacks up against the 510 and 811 on SD with the DLP.

 

[sonic]

I am also Sammy DLP owner, hln50, and a 811 owner, using component cables. And second the fact that I would never pay someone to come and calibrate my system after I paid for overpriced DVI cables. My picture is bright and that's how i'd like to keep it. Thanks.

 

[khearrean]

I know SD looks better on the 811, when it's set for 480p. But, I'm not about to navigate around the 811's menues to change output rez, every time I change channels.

Hey, Gary....Just to make sure I understand your comment on SD via the 811; even though I agree it's too much trouble to constantly change settings back & forth, you're saying that if you are watching any channels via SAT through the 811 except for the HD channels (9420 & higher), the PQ should be better changing the setting in the menu of the 811 to 480P instead of 1080i? I'm at work right now, so I can't check this out but I don't believe I've ever tried that. If it does make a big difference, it might be worth it to me since, when I am watching SAT, most of the material I watch is all SD material since Dish doesn't have much HD programming yet.

Ken

 

[GaryPen]

Yes. That is what I was saying. I've tried it personally. SD programming looks better when using an HD output, if you switch the output rez to 480p.

However, for me, I think it's too much trouble. I just keep the 811 set for 1080i. I really only use the 811 for HD at this point. I use a 721 for the majority of viewing. So, the whold point is moot for me, nowadays.

OTOH, programmable remotes with macro capability should be able to be setup to quickly change output rez at the touch of a single button.

 

[nippjas]

Wouldn't it be nice if E* enabled the "SD/HD" button on the remote to change the output res?

Jason

 

[SungSam]

Awesome...after further investigation, It appears the 811 might even have a "Better" picture in SD on the DLP than the 510. That is, if you follow Gary's advice and change the output resolution to 480p. Great information Gary! I tested this using the DVI output on the 811. I agree that it's a lot of keystrokes on the remote to switch back and forth, just to view one format or the other. It seems the engineers a E* would have recognized this, and designed a specific key on the UHF PRO 8.0 remote to perform this function. For my specific setup, a good place for this would have been the "Page UP/Down," instead of the original design of having those keys perform the Stretch, Zoom, etc. Now, if I can just figure out if the "One for All" remote I have will allow me to program a macro to perform this function. Time to tweak some more....

 

[WeeJavaDude]

Wouldn't it be nice if E* enabled the "SD/HD" button on the remote to change the output res?

Jason

What would even be better, I have suggested this a view times and I thought it was mentioned that we might actualy see this is the following.

1) Have a configuration output for SD and HD independently. This way you can set 480p for SD and 1080i for HD. This way you don't even have to toggle. This to me would be ideal!!

Also providing a toggle mechanism would be icing on the cake.

 

[nippjas]

Have a configuration output for SD and HD independently. This way you can set 480p for SD and 1080i for HD. This way you don't even have to toggle. This to me would be ideal!!

Yep this would be nice...

Nippjas seems to have solved at least some of his 811 problems by using a UPS to power the 811. Might you have any power issues? Are you using a UPS? Can you try it?

As far as Simon's comments on my power problem...I will be updating the 811 thread at DBS Talk further later....I will be putting a line monitor on tomorrow to chart the input voltages.

Update posted: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=25787


Jason

 

[GaryPen]

Have a configuration output for SD and HD independently. This way you can set 480p for SD and 1080i for HD. This way you don't even have to toggle. This to me would be ideal!!

That's great. But, don't you think "native" auto-switching of output rez would be even better? 1080i in? 1080i out! 720p in? 720p out! 480i in? 480p out! (Although, 720p seems to be pretty inconsistent on the 811. One guy says it looks fantastic. Mostly, though, I hear complaints about it.)

 

[WeeJavaDude]

That's great. But, don't you think "native" auto-switching of output rez would be even better? 1080i in? 1080i out! 720p in? 720p out! 480i in? 480p out! (Although, 720p seems to be pretty inconsistent on the 811. One guy says it looks fantastic. Mostly, though, I hear complaints about it.)

Yes that would be a nice option to include as another choice (Native). In my dreams it would work like this

SD - 480p, 720p, 1080i, and Native Option
HD - 480p, 720p, 1080i , and Native Option.

 

[Bobby]

That's great. But, don't you think "native" auto-switching of output rez would be even better? 1080i in? 1080i out! 720p in? 720p out! 480i in? 480p out! (Although, 720p seems to be pretty inconsistent on the 811. One guy says it looks fantastic. Mostly, though, I hear complaints about it.)

Gary,

You're not listening to me. My Mits 65" will not accept a 720P signal, period. If the 811 automaticallyadjustdd to the actual input signal, I couldn't watch ABC, ESPN-HD or Fox-HD (if I could get that one
).

 

[GaryPen]

What? I'm sorry. I wasn't listening to you.