New to Satellite- Receiving FTA television

[kwhite0711]

Hello,

I am completely new to using satellite dishes to receive television (other than services like DirecTV and DISH). I recently came into control of a local high school AV/headend room. The school is equipped with a large, presumably C-band dish on the roof as well as a much smaller, unlabeled white dish. In the headend room, there is a Chaparral Monterey 100C, as well as a General Instrument DSR-4200V. Nobody left any information on what these tuners were used for or how to operate them; the only thing I could find is that they used to be used to watch a now defunct educational network in MA ("MCET"). Both of these receivers power on and appear to function, but receive no signal. I've gotten as far as the menus that allow you to tune specific frequencies and positions. There is also four coaxial cable connections that come from the roof (I think two from each dish) as well as 2 thick copper wires (powers the dish?) and some smaller copper wires (actuator, polarator?)... that are all disconnected.

My question is this: How can I diagnose what might not be setup with these receivers and what dish to use for what tuner? I would really just like one of them to tune into something. We're not looking for hundreds of channels to watch (Comcast gives us free digital cable), I'm just really interested in seeing if any of this equipment is still useable today. I have fairly decent technical and electrical ability, but as you can likely tell by now, I know absolutely nothing about satellite receivers and dishes. Please let me know if you need more information or pictures.

 

[KE4EST]

to Satelliteguys. You have came to the right place to get your answers.

 

[FaT Air]

Might get some info for the Monterey HERE That is capable of moving the dish, and receiving analog transmissions. They are pretty rare on C band today. DVB-S and DVB-S2 are more common. Think this thread is the most recent discussing analog signals.

From what I've found on the net, "the 4200V receiver is the commercial DCII version of the consumer 4DTV receiver, however you cannot get it authorized for reception of programming, but it may receive programming that is not scrambled."
But I'm not so certain as the the 4DTV service had a shake-up a while back, 'M' has dropped supporting the technology on the consumer level. So even if you manually tune it to a DCII signal that's not scrambled, I don't know if it will download the rest of the info required to decode it. Is the stream that's been shut off also the info stream on each channel?? I don't know. Better leave this to someone more versed in 4DTV.
>>smaller, unlabeled white dish<< Most likely for the Ku band. AFAIK, there's no analog at all on Ku. Only DVB-S and S2.
Pictures? We like pictures, and they are a useful tool to see what it's all capable of.

Attached picture may help in wiring the actuator and polarity servo the the Monterey.

 

[Tron]

There is plenty of programming up there to see, but 99 percent of it is digital, so the analog Monterey is really only useful to move the big C-Band dish. The smaller white dish is presumably a Ku-Band dish, and is probably fixed on one satellite (not motorized). The General Instrument receiver is a DCII digital receiver, but it won't be very helpful, as most DCII requires authorization to receive. Most FTA is DVB or DVB-S2.

There are FTA transmissions on both Ku-Band and C-Band, but there is generally more desirable programming on C-Band. Ku-Band does have ethnic channels from around the world on 97W. PBS is also on Ku-Band at 125W, as are occasional news feeds scattered across the sky on various satellites. Some of these can be very interesting.

You will really want to get a digital DVB or DVB-S2 receiver to enjoy most of what's up there. Could you post pics of the dishes?

 

[kwhite0711]

 

[kwhite0711]

The above image is a picture of the smaller white dish. I reconnected all of the wires to the Monterey (thank you for the picture), and it successfully moved the dish east and west, which is great news. However, after moving it for a while, the Monterey will return an "ACTUATOR ERROR," when it goes far enough east. Is this normal? I'm not really sure how to interoperate the menus on the Monterey- The farthest I got was setting the farthest east and west positions of the dish, which is how I got it to move.

Does anyone know if there is an analog, unencrypted channel that I can tune to, to just test the connections and the dish? I am familiar with the channel listings on Lyngsat, but I am not sure how to convert their locations into something the Monterey will understand...

If there are no analog channels left to use, I think my next step would be to move the dish using the Monterey and then try tuning an unencrypted digital channel to test the signal on the General Instrument tuner. I guess my issue is that I have no idea what will actually work and what won't...

There are two coaxial cables connected to the Monterey at the moment, which I'm sure are from the C-band dish (part of the same cable that has the power connectors for the servo and the actuator). However, there are additional unlabeled cables coming from the roof, they I presume would go to the General Instrument receiver. Should I instead just use the C-band dish connections (currently in the Monterey) and skip the smaller white dish?

My ultimate goal is just to see if this equipment works. The school isn't looking for hundreds of channels; I'd be perfectly happy just picking up something. Please let me know if you need me to clarify something or if you need diagrams or pictures of my current location. There's a lot of new and old equipment in this A/V rack, so it can get a little confusing at times.

Thank you for the warm welcome and your willingness to help!

 

[waylew]

There are still a number of unencrypted analog channels that the Monty can receive.
Classic Arts,ch 18 on Galaxy 17@91' west aka GB
Shepherds Channel,ch16,Gal 16@99' w, also ch17 a Disney "feeds" ch akaG4
Shop NBC,ch3,Gal14@125'w aka G5
C-Span,ch7,AMC11@131'w aka C3
EWTN,ch11 and INSP,ch17,Gal15@133'w aka G1
QVC,ch9 and HSN,ch10,AMC10@135'w aka C4

The aka's are sat names that might be in the Monty.For AMC10 the dish will be pointed quite low and to the west,Galaxy 17 will be relatively high and more to the south.

 

[FaT Air]

Yes. skip the smaller dish as there's no analog there, as all you have is analog equipment.
Think this thread is the most recent discussing analog signals. Also refer to Waylew's list, If you 'tune to' one of those analogs and move the dish across the sky, sooner or later the video should show up.(show video on the connected tv) What you'll be looking for is 'C Band". Since the receiver is 'aged' the satellite names programmed into it have most likely changed (satellite names change, locations don't). A good reference is here: What satellite is where? To check old names to new vs. location.
>>after moving it for a while, the Monterey will return an "ACTUATOR ERROR," when it goes far enough east.<< Did the dish go too far and "flop over" where the actuator doesn't have the power, or the mechanical advantage, to lift it back up? On which side of the dish is the actuator?
>>The school isn't looking for hundreds of channels; I'd be perfectly happy just picking up something<<
If what's received on the Monty in analog doesn't fulfill objectives, Then, I'd say the involvement of a newer DVB receiver were called for. Would the investment in a NEW DVB-S2 HD (SatelliteAV's GEOSATPRO microHD? -Available "soon") on the Ku dish aimed at 125W for PBS be too much. And/Or use the Monty to move the C band dish, while the DVB receiver does the receiving?
There's so many options, it's hard to cover them all.
If the school itself isn't interested, might it pique your curiosity (in FTA)?

 

[turbosat]

The monty probably was just hitting the west or east limit to give the error. IF, like suggested, it went too far east and flopped over.

 

[kwhite0711]

Thanks for the information! The school really doesn't want to invest any money into this project at the moment (unprecedented budget crisis)...

I was able to program the east and west limits on the Monterey, which successfully moved the dish with a rather wide range of motion. However, that's about as far as I got. The receiver is in a factory default configuration. I originally thought this would put the original satellite programming into the receiver, but the receiver seems to have nothing in memory for any of the positions. How does the receiver actually know what the position of the dish is? I understand the dish returns a 4 digit position code, but that means nothing to me...

Because I don't understand this 4 digit number, I am unable to actually position the dish onto any satellite in particular. I think I need to start from square one when it comes to configuring this receiver, as nothing is currently programmed. Can anyone assist me with this?

Thank you!

 

[waylew]

The 4 digit number has no correlation to anything other than between that particular receiver and that particular actuator for the purpose of returning the dish to a selected sat location.You are going to have to find a signal,determine what sat you're pointed at and program that sat into the memory.Then you can look for another sat program that and so on.Once you have a few programmed in you the can select a particular sat and the receiver will move the dish automatically .
Now,IF the dish hasn't lost it's alignment and the "skew" of the polarity is correct and the lnb is still good and the feedhorn isn't plugged up with bees nests and well you get the idea.Then it should not be too hard to find something to get you started.
I would start with trying to find the 2 shopping channels ( 9 and 10 ) on AMC 10@ 135'w.If you can find them then the next couple of sats to the east also have analog channels that you should be able to get.

 

[kwhite0711]

Completely by luck (literally by moving the dish east and west), I suddenly was able to receive both QVC and HSN, crystal clear...

Thank you for helping me understand the position code. Where can I go from here?

 

[kwhite0711]

More specific question(s): I believe my next step would be to start at the position where I was able to pick up QVC and HSN, and them move the position "down" to go eastward or "up" to go westward. However, can someone help me understand the other programming functions of this receiver? For example, there is a menu to program individual satellites (rather self-explanatory); However, this menu asks what type of satellite it is (ie. Four GHZ, Telstar, etc.) and then in channel programming there is a polarity setting and a frequency setting. What differences do these settings make? I've seen sites with listings of different satellites and their corresponding channels, frequencies, and position, but how do I convert these to be used in the Monetery (ie. I get that I'll have to search for the position myself, but how do I know the other settings)? Thanks for everyone's help with this, I'm very happy that everything still appears to be working perfectly! It's really exciting to see something that's literally 20 years and left unused for 10 still in great condition.

 

[T4Runner]

Completely by luck (literally by moving the dish east and west), I suddenly was able to receive both QVC and HSN, crystal clear...

Thank you for helping me understand the position code. Where can I go from here?

I would request a budget of $200 for new equipment and make a presentation to the school board finance committee... A whole new world is available with a high definition Free To Air satellite receiver connected to it.

 

[kwhite0711]

Thanks for the suggestion. I'm sure the school would be open to investing into this project, with the right amount of data and convincing. However, there are many other steps that have to be take before I can get a new receiver. At the moment, there's no method of distributing the satellite signal throughout the school. There is existing coaxial connections and wiring, but multiple receivers for multiple classrooms would be impractical and getting multiple receivers for multiple channels and then using RF modulators would be expensive (we only have analog tube TVs in the building). My goal with this was really just to test existing hardware, and then invest in maybe a RF modulator and distributing maybe an international channel throughout the school (Comcast gives us free digital cable, also not implemented farther than the headend room, not as cool, but very pratical). Any cheaper suggestions? (We're so low on money that we now have to charge students to participate in sports, clubs activities, and to use the bus next year)…

 

[turbosat]

kwhite the c-band frequencies will be 4ghz , 3700-4200 range, and the ku band freqs are 11700-12200. Remember many of the satellites have both frequency bands available for use , but if you don't have a ku lnb on the feedhorn you can ignore the upper range for now. One good listing that shows which satellites have what freqs in use is lyngsat.com.
Click on the Sat-tracker on the main page and N America-you'll see a listing of the satellites viewable from NA.

 

[kwhite0711]

I had great sucess finding analog channels on the Monterey (QVC, HSN, C-SPAN, a scrambled Weather CHannel). Unfortunately, there's just not many left. At this point, I think I need to move to digital. Is there anything I can use the General Instrument DSR-4200V for? Or am I better off jsut taking it out of my configuration?

Would this reciever suit my purposes for viewing DVB channels in the US: Amazon.com: Satellite Receiver Dreambox 500s: Electronics ?

Thanks for your assistance!

 

[Cham]

Nasa channels (educational) on 105W are SD and HD, so you might want to hold out for a few more $$ and look for an HD capable receiver...
I have two Pansat 3500s sitting here that do SD only but have skew control for the feedhorn. The shipping would cost more than the receiver is worth ($0) from Canada... maybe someone local has something like this cluttering their closet?

 

[brex2001]

I had great sucess finding analog channels on the Monterey (QVC, HSN, C-SPAN, a scrambled Weather CHannel). Unfortunately, there's just not many left. At this point, I think I need to move to digital. Is there anything I can use the General Instrument DSR-4200V for? Or am I better off jsut taking it out of my configuration?

Would this reciever suit my purposes for viewing DVB channels in the US: Amazon.com: Satellite Receiver Dreambox 500s: Electronics ?

Thanks for your assistance!

That Dreambox has more learning to it than you may want to fool with just now.
I have 3 stbs I will list for grabs for the price of shipping(USPS flat rate medium box) in the FTA Shack.

 

[waylew]

Completely by luck (literally by moving the dish east and west), I suddenly was able to receive both QVC and HSN, crystal clear...

Thank you for helping me understand the position code. Where can I go from here?

Excellent and congratulations,as far as any further programming of the Monty I can't really help due to I've never had one or worked on one,so I'm not familiar with it's programming particulars .I think your next step now is to get a DVB receiver to get the digital signals.
You might want to check the thrift stores,if you have any local,never know what you might find,cheap ; ) If you could find say a Coolsat 5000 or Pansat 2700 for 20 bucks or so it will get you started.They are relatively easy to use tho they are SD only,but there is still lots of that up there.