NEWB questions - who do they think they are?!

[pee]

Some of you will probably sneer at this post, some - I hope - will give some useful feedback. I have spoken with a few CSR's at dish - and honestly, I am dumbfounded. How does Dish get and retain any customers with their offering?

Let me lay it out. I have 2 HD sets, 2 SD sets. I want 2xVIP 622 to feed them.

Problem 1: sorry sir, we can only give you one. Why? because it may slow the market down by giving you two. WHAAAAT?!

Problem 2: me-Why would I pay you an "upgrade fee" of $200 (or whatever it may be) on a leased item? Have YOU ever paid an upgrade fee for your cable modem? DSL modem? Cable box? ANYTHING? I am so frustrated with this. This is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Mainly, because I am a new customer who is walking in with nothing to upgrade. So why charge me?!

Problem 3: if this is how dish deals with you on sales, how is their support and retention down the road?

I am an 8+ year directv customer. I've now dumped close to $10k into their coffers as a result of my subscriptions. They never asked me to pay to upgrade gear that I leased - probably because they don't lease. But if I want an HD250 Tivo (closest to VIP622 at the moment) I go and buy one, for $250 - done.

Give me the VIP622 to own for $250, I'll gladly buy it too. But ask me to give you $200 and then pay monthly for the right to have it?! forget it.

So - hopefully you're still along with me this far down. Sorry for the pseudo rant, but I honestly want a change. I like the VOOM lineup (not enough to pay these crazy fees) and would love to figure out how to get 2x622 cheap and get rolling. It can't be that hard, I'd be buying HD Platinum and staying with the company for another 8 or so years - doing the math, that's another $10k+ -- well worth the acuisition cost of a few cheap set top boxes.

Thanks for any tips from you all on how I may go about doing this. If I can't do this in the next couple of days, cable here I come.

later.

 

[N6BY]

Some of you will probably sneer at this post, some - I hope - will give some useful feedback. I have spoken with a few CSR's at dish - and honestly, I am dumbfounded. How does Dish get and retain any customers with their offering?

I'm not sure if you will find my comments helpful, because I don't agree with you. So let me play "Devil's" (Dish's) advocate.

Let me lay it out. I have 2 HD sets, 2 SD sets. I want 2xVIP 622 to feed them.

Problem 1: sorry sir, we can only give you one. Why? because it may slow the market down by giving you two. WHAAAAT?!

They are expensive to produce and the demand is high. How many times have you seen companies put in their advertising "Limit 1 per customer"? Myself, hundreds of times. This is fair.

Problem 2: me-Why would I pay you an "upgrade fee" of $200 (or whatever it may be) on a leased item? Have YOU ever paid an upgrade fee for your cable modem? DSL modem? Cable box? ANYTHING? I am so frustrated with this. This is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Mainly, because I am a new customer who is walking in with nothing to upgrade. So why charge me?!

You are charged because, unlike a cable modem, a 622 is an expensive item. They don't make money (and couldn't stay in business) by giving them away. The monthly fee covers the cost of support and maintainance. The $200 covers the depreciation.

Problem 3: if this is how dish deals with you on sales, how is their support and retention down the road?

As a 9 year customer myself, they are good (but IMHO not currently as good as they were years ago). I'm very happy with their tech support (from the US), but their customer service reps in India are hard to communicate with.

... So - hopefully you're still along with me this far down. Sorry for the pseudo rant, but I honestly want a change. I like the VOOM lineup (not enough to pay these crazy fees) and would love to figure out how to get 2x622 cheap and get rolling. It can't be that hard, I'd be buying HD Platinum and staying with the company for another 8 or so years - doing the math, that's another $10k+ -- well worth the acuisition cost of a few cheap set top boxes.

Thanks for any tips from you all on how I may go about doing this. If I can't do this in the next couple of days, cable here I come.

later.

You say you'd stay with HD Platinum for 8 years. You would be an ideal customer for Dish. But unfortunately, Dish doesn't know how long you'll be with them so they have to charge money up front for the equipment.

 

[pee]

Thanks Brett. I hear ya on most points except the equipment one. Expensive technology is a relative term. The HR10-250 HD Tivo that direc uses, originally came out for $1000. Today it's $250 - it got to that price point very quickly, hittng $500 within about 5 months. Did the manufacturing change any? Heck no. It always cost what it cost to produce.

That having been said, what's in these boxes. Let's analyze...

motherboard, with MPEG4 chipset, custom ASICs, some memory and an IDE controller. Worst case scenario, using high-end components, $200 wholesale.

Add in a hard drive $100, satellite modules and fluff $50, case and documentation $10 - we're now at $360. Probably about what this box costs dish to produce.

Now flip the tables. $6 for box lease, $6 DVR fee, that's $12/month, $144/year - what technology do YOU own that has an ROI that pays for itself before end of the third year? This cost should be covered by the subscription fee solely. Even if the box costs 2x of what I said above at around $700 to produce (unlikely) it is still a 'leased' asset that continues to generate revenue from the next rental if mine were to fall throgh. So the depreciation schedule goes totally out the window!

That's the box side of the equation. Programming - that's another chunk of change. Following the razor/razor blade model - we see that something's not right. But this isn't economics class.

Again, thanks for your view. I'm hoping someone else knows of a decent deal/way to buy into this system that makes sense for me. I really would like to join this community but again, can't see myself paying those fees for something I don't get to own. And note: I don't mind buying the hardware, but at $500 for a set top box without a decent warranty long term, is not something I'm willing to do (anymore). Been there done that with RCA DTC100 and beyond! This is the age of 42" 1080P LCD tv's for $1400 - the STB marketplace needs to meet it and price accordingly.

Cheers!

 

[miguelaqui]

Give me the VIP622 to own for $250, I'll gladly buy it too. But ask me to give you $200 and then pay monthly for the right to have it?! forget it.


later.

OK You can find those receivers for $470 each if you look hard enough...then, you would own them.

I'm glad you mentioned that $250 deal.....your complaint was that you needed 2, so will they sell you 2 at the reduced rate? Also, when DirecTv comes out with the MPEG 4 HD DVR, will you have to pay to upgrade?

You also mentioned that you wanted 2 622 receivers to feed 4 sets...2 sets per 622. Will the DirecTv HD DVR function as the 622 does, where you can watch 2 different shows on 2 different TVs? I don't think so. (NOT SURE)

 

[boba]

Pee your pricing on the HR10-250 is totally wrong. Directv does now lease it's receivers and the lease fee on the HR10-250 was just reduced to $299.00. Dish's current promotions would allow you 1 leased 622 at $199 and you could get a 211 free for the second HDTV and a 301/311 for the second SDTV also free.

 

[korsjs]

i agree with pee on the equipment lease charges. cable and fios can provide the same product and it is probably more stable at no up front cost. why can't dish?

when i had cable, my scientific atlantic 8300 was more stable than anything dish ever provided and i did not have to pay anything just to get it.

my fios tv motorola dvr is also more stable than anyting dish ever provided and i did not have to pay for anything up front.

bottom line. i agree this is hurting dish. the majority of tv viewers (not us techies) (this is probably 85 percent of the market) do not want to fork out 200 bucks to lease something.

 

[N6BY]

i agree with pee on the equipment lease charges. cable and fios can provide the same product and it is probably more stable at no up front cost. why can't dish?

Which cable company has a 2 tuner + OTA HD PVR for free? Wish I lived in their service area!

when i had cable, my scientific atlantic 8300 was more stable than anything dish ever provided and i did not have to pay anything just to get it.

I agree that Dish's equipment lacks stability. I'm on my 4th 921 since February (of this year!) First one died trying to download new software during a storm. The 2nd one's hard drive failed. The third one does not respond to the UHF remote. Forth one is on its way here.

my fios tv motorola dvr is also more stable than anyting dish ever provided and i did not have to pay for anything up front.

bottom line. i agree this is hurting dish. the majority of tv viewers (not us techies) (this is probably 85 percent of the market) do not want to fork out 200 bucks to lease something.

With Dish Network equipment, I think you are better off leasing since the likelyhood of repair is high. With a lease, you are covered and don't have to pay when it breaks.

 

[DaveyBoy26]

I think for dish it is a choice between charging more for programming or equipment. I think they wouldn't make enough money to keep producing topnotch(heehee)technology if they kept their low prices and had no upgrade fees as well.

 

[codee]

Which cable company has a 2 tuner + OTA HD PVR for free? Wish I lived in their service area!
I agree that Dish's equipment lacks stability. I'm on my 4th 921 since February (of this year!) First one died trying to download new software during a storm. The 2nd one's hard drive failed. The third one does not respond to the UHF remote. Forth one is on its way here.

With Dish Network equipment, I think you are better off leasing since the likelyhood of repair is high. With a lease, you are covered and don't have to pay when it breaks.

Comcast does - in my area atleast its similar....HD box with 2 tuners and DVR for $5/month with no extra upfront cost. If it stopped working right, they would drive to my house and swap it for free. If I thought it wasn't working right, they would swap it no quesions asked. If my dog sneezed on it they would sawp it for free. Comcast swaps all their equipment for free with no upfront costs. ( atleast in my area) It does only have 2 tuners, but all the HD local stations are provided through the cable system, uncompressed at all so its pretty much the same as having a OTA tuner anyways. They don't have as many HD channels, BUT all the ones they do have are 100% untouched or compressed by comcast. They do look amazing...

So, theres your answer for the most part - Comcast.

 

[yellowcanary73]

The 622 is made in Mexico enough said.

 

[pee]

Just ordered cable from WOW in my area. Basically every channel out there, all HD, two DVRs, 6Meg/1Meg Internet with static IP - $130, no installation fee, no up front fee, no dic*ing around with offsetting some lousy marketer's numbers or some poor dish accountants depreciation schedules. So off I go. Thanks anyhow all.

 

[miguelaqui]

The 622 is made in Mexico enough said.

Don't bring up foreign made stuff!!! Do you remember where the "bad batch" of DP TWINS were made back in 2002? Does anyone remember that headache? The MADE IN CHINA ones worked fine.

As far as the guy who's got Comcast..... I hope you enjoy that DVR for $5 month. Does that include the DVR service or is that just the converter rental fee?

I had Adelphia's DVR and thought it sucked when compared to the E*. It would not tell me exactly how much time was left. If I was watching a show in time dealy, while recording, it would stop at whatever time the event ended and go into live mode, then, I would have to fast forward, no 30 second skip, through the event to catch up.

 

[N6BY]

... So, theres your answer for the most part - Comcast.

If I was in Comncast's service area, I would probably switch. But I live in Rocklin, California which just renewed its franchise monopoly with Starstream Cable. The best they have is a single tuner DVR and programming packages with fewer channels at almost double the price.

So for some people (like me), Dish is the best deal available.

Some day, there will be a nationwide fiber optic network connecting every house, and competition will return!