No LOS for locals. Options?

B

bartman99

Thread Starter
Active SatelliteGuys Member
Mar 24, 2010
19
0
Virginia
Hi,

I currently have D* (SD with old Hughes DVR) and signed up for E* last week. We have a distant network waiver from D*. E* offers a much better deal on the program lineup and equipment for my purposes. Installer came out and said he could not find a LOS for locals. I live in Virginia (22903) and locals are on 129. The elevation (~22degrees) was too shallow and could not get a LOS over the trees. We live in the woods (see below) and the installer said there was just no way. I am not prepared to raze our forest to get network TV.

I also walked around the property with a compass and inclinmeter and could find no LOS for 129 (even if mounted on a pole somewhere).

So what are my options? Installer also said that at some point, locals would move off of 129 and to a bird with a higher elevation? Does anyone know when? How could I find out?

He also suggested just using OTA for locals. Unfortunately, we have an outside antenna, Channelmaster 4228, which is supposed to be one of the best, and we only get NBC reliably. So that's really a no go (per the DW).

Is there any way to get any other network feeds or locals? I have read about "moving" particularly on the D* forum. Can this be done with E*? I was thinking if I could move to Washington DC (22222) or Richmond Virginia(23218), I would be in the same spot beam. Would it be likely that the correct type of dish and alignment be done at 22903, so that I could pick up locals in DC or Richmond?

Any other suggestions?

BM

Our home in the woods:
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L

Laddyboy

SatelliteGuys Pro
Dec 12, 2006
3,149
12
Central IL/SW FL/Big Island
Yes you can "move" with E*. Here are the spot beam maps for the Richmond, Roanoke (Charlotte on same beam) and D.C. DMAs from The List (see link at top of page). D.C. is on the eastern arc at 61.5W. There are also some markets on ConUS beams on 77W although that will likely change in the future.

129W Richmond Spot
129W Roanoke Spot
61.5W D.C. Spot

Given your location and the elevation of 129W, I'd go to the eastern arc with a 1000.4 and try for D.C. locals if you have line of sight for the orbitals.
 
B

bartman99

Thread Starter
Active SatelliteGuys Member
Mar 24, 2010
19
0
Virginia
Yes you can "move" with E*. Here are the spot beam maps for the Richmond, Roanoke (Charlotte on same beam) and D.C. DMAs from The List (see link at top of page). D.C. is on the eastern arc at 61.5W. There are also some markets on ConUS beams on 77W although that will likely change in the future.

129W Richmond Spot
129W Roanoke Spot
61.5W D.C. Spot

Given your location and the elevation of 129W, I'd go to the eastern arc with a 1000.4 and try for D.C. locals if you have line of sight for the orbitals.


Thanks for the input. So is E* the same as D* with regards to a different billing and service address (look the other way)? Or is there a (decent) chance they'll turn it off?

Assuming I have a LOS for the 1000.4, here's a potential scenario and some questions. I call CSR back and say I changed my mind and want an install, but no locals. In 22903, will I get the 1000.4 dish? I then call them back (1 day? 1 week? 1 month?) and say I've moved my service address to D.C? Will they have to come out and do anything else (ie. re-align the dish)? Will I just get an add-on charge for locals then (cost?)? If I have a problem, I assume I have to change my service address back to 22903, then call. How long do I wait then? Or do they rally care?

Any foreseeable problems with this plan?
B
 
cr08

cr08

SatelliteGuys Family
Mar 23, 2010
37
0
NE Ohio
What kind of tuner do you have hooked up to your OTA antenna now? It's been my experience that the OTA tuners for the Dish receivers are quite a bit more sensitive (at the tradeoff of being picky about multi-path interference) than tuners you'd find in your tv for example.

If you do go with the DC locals via Sat you could still try the OTA idea. At worst you'd be out $40 for the tuner module for the k model receivers if it doesn't work. If it does you'd have both your 'local' locals and the DC locals all at once.
 
L

Laddyboy

SatelliteGuys Pro
Dec 12, 2006
3,149
12
Central IL/SW FL/Big Island
Thanks for the input. So is E* the same as D* with regards to a different billing and service address (look the other way)? Or is there a (decent) chance they'll turn it off?

Assuming I have a LOS for the 1000.4, here's a potential scenario and some questions. I call CSR back and say I changed my mind and want an install, but no locals. In 22903, will I get the 1000.4 dish? I then call them back (1 day? 1 week? 1 month?) and say I've moved my service address to D.C? Will they have to come out and do anything else (ie. re-align the dish)? Will I just get an add-on charge for locals then (cost?)? If I have a problem, I assume I have to change my service address back to 22903, then call. How long do I wait then? Or do they rally care?

Any foreseeable problems with this plan?
B


22903 is a western arc market so they probably would install a western arc 1000.2 for 110/119/129 unless you had LOS issues. Since you have LOS issues with 129, they may put up a 1000.4 eastern arc antenna for you. Yes you need separate billing and service addresses. Yes you would have to move back if you need a truck roll. Some people have switched quickly, some have waited a few weeks. Heretofore E* hasn't seemed to care enough to track as far as anyone can tell. I don't know of anyone who's been busted for moving but I'm sure someone has somewhere along the line especially if account stacking was also happening. It's always a risk. You could try for network distants from AAD (All American Direct). There's a list of qualifying zip codes in forum posts. It's pretty pricey though.
 
T

thedamaja

SatelliteGuys Pro
Feb 6, 2007
444
0
South Bend, IN
Are you looking for SD service or HD?

If just SD you could simply "move" to an area supplied by a 119 or 110 spot and forget about 129.

If you're looking for HD service you'd want them to install a 1000.4 anyway as most Western Arc HD is on 129 and you wouldn't be able to receive it. Going this route you might be better off dealing with a local retailer and explaining the situation.

To move you only need to change your service address not the billing. I moved to my summer home sometime ago with no issues.

For service calls you would need to move back.

They don't seem to care about the time frame so you could "move" again in a few hours or the next day.
 
B

bartman99

Thread Starter
Active SatelliteGuys Member
Mar 24, 2010
19
0
Virginia
If I am going to "move" I figured I'd "upgrade" to HD, but since our locals are SD, my guess is the installer would not by default install a 1000.4 (as we're on the western arc). Therefore I t might be a bit of an issue trying to get the E* installer to put up a 1000.4, hence the suggestion to try a local retailer.

What would I say to the local retailer then, as I suspect the local retailer would default to the 1000.2 setup?
 
L

Laddyboy

SatelliteGuys Pro
Dec 12, 2006
3,149
12
Central IL/SW FL/Big Island
If I am going to "move" I figured I'd "upgrade" to HD, but since our locals are SD, my guess is the installer would not by default install a 1000.4 (as we're on the western arc). Therefore I t might be a bit of an issue trying to get the E* installer to put up a 1000.4, hence the suggestion to try a local retailer.

What would I say to the local retailer then, as I suspect the local retailer would default to the 1000.2 setup?

This is simple. Most of the national HD for the western arc is on 129W for which you have no LOS. Thus you need an eastern arc 1000.4 install to be able to get your national HD from 72.7 and 61.5 on the eastern arc. This assumes you have LOS for the eastern arc (61.5/72.7/77).
 
B

bartman99

Thread Starter
Active SatelliteGuys Member
Mar 24, 2010
19
0
Virginia
This assumes you have LOS for the eastern arc (61.5/72.7/77).

Yup. At 45dg elevation and an almost due south direction, I clear, by a wide margin, the trees around the house.. So it looks like there really would be no way (assuming I get an HD package), they could use 2 out of the 3 sats on the western arc?

B
 
L

Laddyboy

SatelliteGuys Pro
Dec 12, 2006
3,149
12
Central IL/SW FL/Big Island
Yup. At 45dg elevation and an almost due south direction, I clear, by a wide margin, the trees around the house.. So it looks like there really would be no way (assuming I get an HD package), they could use 2 out of the 3 sats on the western arc?

B

Without 129W you would be without nearly all the HD on the WA. EA is the only choice for you due to LOS issues with 129W.
 
B

bartman99

Thread Starter
Active SatelliteGuys Member
Mar 24, 2010
19
0
Virginia
What kind of tuner do you have hooked up to your OTA antenna now? It's been my experience that the OTA tuners for the Dish receivers are quite a bit more sensitive (at the tradeoff of being picky about multi-path interference) than tuners you'd find in your tv for example.

I have the OTA antenna hooked up to a Samsung LCD tv. Also had it hooked up to a Zenith converter box. Problem is all but one station (NBC which I get fine) are 15.0 kw or less, with trees and hills in the path (tvfool.com signal analysis). I might try an amplifier on my OTA antenna and see how that works. Likely I will "move" to D.C.
 
T

thedamaja

SatelliteGuys Pro
Feb 6, 2007
444
0
South Bend, IN
What would I say to the local retailer then, as I suspect the local retailer would default to the 1000.2 setup?

I would just tell them the situation. You have no line of site to 129, don't care about locals, and want HD. A 1000.4 will get the job done.

After everything is installed, call up or online chat with dish, give your moved service address and sign up for the moved locals at that time.
 
C

CU2000

SatelliteGuys Guru
Mar 1, 2004
145
19
Question about the Spotbeam maps. Noticed that the Des Moines & St. Louis
KC & Columbia mo & Hannibal are all on the same spot beam. How can the map shown for spot beam 14 be correct. the Red ring does not go as far as Des Moines?
 
Stargazer

Stargazer

Supporting Founder
Supporting Founder
Sep 7, 2003
16,565
340
Western WV
I have been wondering what the most sensitive external digital tuner is out there that you can buy? I have heard that some will pick up stations that others will not. I wish there was one that told you if you was close to getting in a station by giving its signal quality and what signal it lacks to pick the station up. I notice pauses on the Magnavox digital tuner (convertor box) when it searches for stations.
 
L

Laddyboy

SatelliteGuys Pro
Dec 12, 2006
3,149
12
Central IL/SW FL/Big Island
Question about the Spotbeam maps. Noticed that the Des Moines & St. Louis
KC & Columbia mo & Hannibal are all on the same spot beam. How can the map shown for spot beam 14 be correct. the Red ring does not go as far as Des Moines?

I believe the effective coverage areas are actually shifted north and east of the maps due to reorientation of the sat at 61.5. IIRC the 61.5 maps were created from the original FCC filings.
 

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