No more Diplexing?

[96corolla]

Hi - and thanks in advance for any info...

I've had same Std DVR reciever for about 6 years and have used diplexers to my other TV's with no issue. Recently had to cave and get 2nd tuner cause my kids are getting tothe age where THEY'RE DRIVING ME CRAZY about wanting to watch something else.

Got new HD DVR reciever and installed it at main TV where previous std dvr was. Install man unhooked all Diplexers and told me some BS that they won't work anymore. I didn't believe him and figured they make their installers take them out. Anyway - when I went to hook them back up, it didn't work!

I always used it on upstairs TV and can't get it to work now. My best guess right now is this new HDVR does NOT have an RF Out connection. It only has a TV out.....which is what I used but it didn't work. I'm guessing maybe the TV out is digital and the signal back through the cable/diplexer must be RF? What do you guys think? Thanks!

 

[RandallA]

Diplexers don't work with SWM technology anymore. The problem is that the SWM uses 2.3 Mhz for the communication channel and diplexers go from 950 to 2.2, 2.3 Ghz, etc. depending on the diplexer.

 

[Bob Nielsen]

Diplexing can work with SWM, as long as you don't have whole-home DVR service. The SWM8 even has an input for an OTA antenna.

Since the OP is using diplexing to backfeed the output of a receiver to other TVs, a HD receiver will require a RF modulator to take the composite or S-video plus audio outputs and output a channel 3/4 signal which can be used just as the RF output of SD receivers.

 

[dishrich]

Diplexers don't work with SWM technology anymore. The problem is that the SWM uses 2.3 Mhz for the communication channel and diplexers go from 950 to 2.2, 2.3 Ghz, etc. depending on the diplexer.

As Bob already stated, they certainly WILL work - including the part about the SWM8 switch even having an OTA input on it, which is then used with a diplexer at the TV end. However there are a certain very few diplexers that WILL work with an SWM setup - the ones I've used are specifically made for SWM use.
He is also correct that if you then want MRV, it then will NOT work.

I think you might be confused with the fact that you cannot diplex on NON-SWM slimeline dishes - unless you move the BBC(s) so that they come between the first diplexer & dish/switch. Of course, this will NOT work if you are using an HR23 or H23 receiver, since the BBC's are built into the receivers & can't be disabled.

If you do some searches here, all of this has been talked about many a time on the board

 

[RandallA]

Right, it's DECA that uses this frequency range 475-625 MHz.

 

[96corolla]

Guys - thanks a lol for the info, I really appreciate it! I must say though that my head is spinning with all the techy talk!!! Also, I understand and appreciate the comment on searching for previos threads. I did a lot of that...challenge is you get tons of results and can spend hours at a time trying to find exactly what you need. I always feel bad starting a new thread...but that's typically why I do it.

Do you guys know of a specific tread I should look for...or better yet a diagram? One thing also to be clear on....I got the HD DVR....but I currently don't get HD....I just got it in case my cheapness ever wears off in the future. Not sure if some of the acronyms above saying that you couldn't use a diplexer referred to HD signals. Thanks!!!!

 

[96corolla]

Update - tried the RF modulator per your input above.....

It worked!!!! or so I thought..... I did the set up, ran up to my bedroom and saw the bedroom TV working with downstairs channel as it should. I celebrated briefly and turned thing off. My real victory parade was to be given to my wife later that night when we finaly have TV back in our room. Quite funny - i though I was THE MAN....turned the TV on....and NOTHING!!!!!

What happened? In my searches here I thought I remembered reading something where it "May" work for a while if you have the wrong diplexeer but it will eventually blow it out....is that what happened here? Also in those searches I think I found was SWM means....but I don't think I have SWM as I still have two wires going to the back of my DVR....this is crazy. Thoughts?? Thanks.

 

[dishrich]

....but I don't think I have SWM as I still have two wires going to the back of my DVR....

It appears you do not have SWM, & as I already told you above, diplexing will NOT work on non-SWM systems - run another coax & be done with it...

 

[96corolla]

I'm sorry...but I'm so confused.....why did it work before?....and all of a sudden not now. The only change is I have a new reciever? Can't I just get the diplexer that operates at higher mhz or something. I still don't get how it worked on the other TIVO and simly changing the receiver makes it no longer work....esp if I came out of the RF Mod...

So this is saying my only option is to add another reciever to my upstairs bedroom, or run another cable direct up there??

 

[dishrich]

I'm sorry...but I'm so confused.....why did it work before?....and all of a sudden not now. The only change is I have a new reciever?

Didn't they also upgrade your dish to a new slimline dish? (since you DID say you got an HD receiver)
Aren't you now getting HD prog - if so, you HAVE to have a slimline dish to get ANY HD.
If this is the case, THAT is why it doesn't work - again, the non-SWM slimline dish is NOT compatible with diplexing.

So this is saying my only option is to add another reciever to my upstairs bedroom, or run another cable direct up there??

You got it!

 

[96corolla]

Rich - Thanks for your patience and support!

I DID say I got an HD reciever, but I also stated that I did NOT get the HD programming. I'm too cheap right now and just got the reciever cause it was the same price as Non-HD and I figured I could then add HD in the future if I want to......my posts are so long and rambling that I could easily see how you could miss that part. So no, my dish was NOT updated and my other receiver is still non HD....if that matters. I get no HD programming....the only thing that I can see that the guy did was put some kind of splitter looking thing outside my house where everything enters....he also ran an extra line to the basement so I'd have two lines there also (this is where he moved the non HD recver to)...

Bottom line - NO HD programming and no dish upgrade. Thanks again dude for being so patient!:up

 

[dishrich]

Well now I really don't know what you really have there. A pic of the "splitter looking thing" would help.
Still, since eventually you probably WILL get the HD turned on, I'd still just run the extra coax be done with it!
(BTW, you DO know that D* is now giving it away FREE for many subs - if you search around here, many existing subs are getting it FREE for 2 years. Eventually, it's probably going to be FREE for everyone...)

 

[96corolla]

(BTW, you DO know that D* is now giving it away FREE for many subs - if you search around here, many existing subs are getting it FREE for 2 years. Eventually, it's probably going to be FREE for everyone...)

huh.....I got a major bad deal then....I didn't get any free HD and had to pay $100 for the tuner.....that suprised me cause I expected to get it for free. I will check around....but probably too late now....

I will take a pic of the splitter for you.

BTW - this gets stranger......I told you it worked...then didn't work.... so last night around 7 I turn the TV on and THERE IT IS again...it's working. We go up to bed around 10.....and nothing again! WT*

 

[harshness]

However there are a certain very few diplexers that WILL work with an SWM setup - the ones I've used are specifically made for SWM use.

How does a "special" diplexer not kill the 2.3MHz control signal that RandallA mentions?

 

[harshness]

It appears you do not have SWM, & as I already told you above, diplexing will NOT work on non-SWM systems - run another coax & be done with it...

Diplexing works just fine on non-SWM systems. Are you sure you don't have the two confused?

The deal with a legacy setup is that the BBC needs to go inline between the LNB and the diplexer pair.

 

[dishrich]

How does a "special" diplexer not kill the 2.3MHz control signal that RandallA mentions?

It's a diplexer that goes BELOW 2.3 that's made for this application - I get them thru my distributor NACE that carries all the other D* pieceparts...

Diplexing works just fine on non-SWM systems. Are you sure you don't have the two confused?

The deal with a legacy setup is that the BBC needs to go inline between the LNB and the diplexer pair.

I'm SURE I don't, thank you, & yea I already discussed that disclamer, if you had read all the threads.
http://www.satelliteguys.us/directv-technical-discussions/231198-no-more-diplexing.html#post2357426

Most lay people are NOT going to move the BBC & since you CAN'T do that on an H/HR23 receiver, I would hardly say "it works just fine on non-SWM"...

 

[dishrich]

huh.....I got a major bad deal then....I didn't get any free HD and had to pay $100 for the tuner.....that suprised me cause I expected to get it for free.

And you STILL don't have the slimline dish that you're going to need anyway - you could have (should have anyway) gotten that for FREE as part of your upgrade...

 

[96corolla]

BTW - this gets stranger......I told you it worked...then didn't work.... so last night around 7 I turn the TV on and THERE IT IS again...it's working. We go up to bed around 10.....and nothing again! WT*

*

OK we've established I'm a big dummy regarding the "deal" I got from D*, but what is the explanation for this? (above). How can it work sometimes and at random?

 

[dishrich]

Well I guess I don't totally understand when you say "it's NOT there" - when it isn't there, what is on that screen?
(white snow, gray snow, black screen, an obscured picture, etc.?) When it IS there, is the picture normal? (clear)
When it's gone, did you check to see if the RF mod is turned on? (they usually have a light on them when on & many turn themselves on/off depending on a video signal present)

If you really don't have the slimline dish, I'll admit I'm lost at this point why it comes & goes.

Also, r u going to post a pic of the "splitter thing"???

 

[96corolla]

Rich - sorry for the delay in updates....

well I got it working...and it's an embarrasing story.... You know that scene in Christmas Vacation where Clark can't figure out the Christmas lights and he's going bonkers and in the end it's switch that needs to be flipped???....well it's kinda like that.....I'm sitting on my coach one night thinking about how it "randomly" works....and it hits me that every time it DIDN't work the reciever was OFF. I turn the reciever on...go upstairs and bingo!

This never even crossed my mind....sadly....my old reciever basically never shut off...never could find that off switch....this one does and was going off every night with the TV... Anyway, that's it.....make sense? Now I'm wondering if I don't even need the RF modulator and can come out of the TV Out connection? I'm gonna try it and maybe take the modulator back to Wally World and save $16.

Thanks Rich!!!! If you want that picture just out of curiousity, let me know.