Not happy with 1000.4 so far. (1 Viewer)

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TheForce

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SatelliteGuys Master
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Oct 13, 2003
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Jacksonville, FL, Earth
Today was a great day to spend installing a new dish on the roof. I replaced my old DirecTV dish with a new 1000.4 to get my system current. I have a 722 and a 722K with OTA tuner.

The first problem I ran into was understanding the connections. From the instructions, I understood I was to connect to the 72.7 LNB first to tweak the azimuth and elevation. The manual said to connect a peaking meter to port 2. I did this and got no connection. Further reading, I found that the power has to be connected to port 1. This seemed to be a conflict but I stuck to port one and proceded to aim the dish. Got that tweaked on 72 TP 21. Next I redid the check switch with no connection. It went through 50 and then I had to reboot the 722K.

Now I selected super dish and 72 and TP 21 and did the check switch test.

I got green on 77,72, and 61.5. Next I looked at the signals on all three sats and had to tweak the skew ever so slightly to increase 77 and 61.5. I used the bar on the 722K for this and got 31-36 on several TP's on all three sats after several hours of tweaking and checking the 722K signal screen.

The concern is signal strength. I have all the sats balanced now between 31-36 on TP's 15, 17, 19, 21 and 25 but with my original dish setup, I got signals between 68-80 on all TP's on 71.5 and 55-65 on the Dish 500.

After watching for awhile some channels are getting lost due to signal strength. One was CNBC HD on 61.5 TP 32 was at 11 while TP 29 was at 36.

I'm a little lost on how to tweak this dish for best reliability. I still have my 500 with 61.5 and can switch back, maintaining the 1000.4 as a test dish until I get it working so I'm not without programming but I really would like to understand what to expect from the 1000.4. Is it wrong to try to achieve same signal readings on each sat? Or should I forget balance and just try to get maximum on 72 first, then work the best balance on the 61.5 and 77 sats using the skew only?
 
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ggw2000

SatelliteGuys Pro
Sep 20, 2004
693
109
Out here somewhere
signal strength

Today was a great day to spend installing a new dish on the roof. I replaced my old DirecTV dish with a new 1000.4 to get my system current. I have a 722 and a 722K with OTA tuner.

The first problem I ran into was understanding the connections. From the instructions, I understood I was to connect to the 72.7 LNB first to tweak the azimuth and elevation. The manual said to connect a peaking meter to port 2. I did this and got no connection. Further reading, I found that the power has to be connected to port 1. This seemed to be a conflict but I stuck to port one and proceded to aim the dish. Got that tweaked on 72 TP 21. Next I redid the check switch with no connection. It went through 50 and then I had to reboot the 722K.

Now I selected super dish and 72 and TP 21 and did the check switch test.

I got green on 77,72, and 61.5. Next I looked at the signals on all three sats and had to tweak the skew ever so slightly to increase 77 and 61.5. I used the bar on the 722K for this and got 31-36 on several TP's on all three sats after several hours of tweaking and checking the 722K signal screen.

The concern is signal strength. I have all the sats balanced now between 31-36 on TP's 15, 17, 19, 21 and 25 but with my original dish setup, I got signals between 68-80 on all TP's on 71.5 and 55-65 on the Dish 500.

After watching for awhile some channels are getting lost due to signal strength. One was CNBC HD on 61.5 TP 32 was at 11 while TP 29 was at 36.

I'm a little lost on how to tweak this dish for best reliability. I still have my 500 with 61.5 and can switch back, maintaining the 1000.4 as a test dish until I get it working so I'm not without programming but I really would like to understand what to expect from the 1000.4. Is it wrong to try to achieve same signal readings on each sat? Or should I forget balance and just try to get maximum on 72 first, then work the best balance on the 61.5 and 77 sats using the skew only?

The 1K4 is a different beast and can be somewhat fustrating. The signals strengths on the 1K4 are not the same as you are getting on 110/119 and usually average about 30 points lower. So I suggest that you do not try and compare the two. I just setup my 1K4 on saturday. But I am up in the northeast and signal strengths would not be the same as florida.
My advice is to set the skew to where it tells you on dishpointer.com or in the manual. Leave it alone after setting it. Peak the dish for 72.7 using the elevation and azimuth fine tuning. Leave it there and try it for a couple days.
Up here I am getting 59 on 72.7 tp21. 61.5/77 are around 39-40. I have had no problems yet and we have had snow showers for the past two days..
Gerry
 
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TheForce

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Thanks much for your report. I'm losing channels due to low signal now. I'll give it another session of tweaking. I have the time. Tomorrow we expect some rain so we'll see how things hold up. I don't expect much. The rest of the week is supposed to be clear so I'll have some time to really tweak things.

If push comes to shove, I'll buy another 30" single dish and a 44 switch and build my EA with 3 dishes, all large size and single aim. Since I have three dish mounts, I'd rather do that and have the signal as I get annoyed with rain fade.
 

thamac

SatelliteGuys Pro
Dec 16, 2008
206
2
Jacksonville, Florida
Hello Don....I'm in Jacksonville also and my signals are overall quite a bit higher. (Reading on the 722 meter)


72 is reading 60+ across most transponders
77 is reading mid to upper 50's
61.5 is the lowest but still reading mid 40's to 50's on the active transponders.

I'll try and get up on the roof after work today and see what my angle and skew settings are. I'll post em for ya when I find out.

Dave
 

MikeD-C05

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Nov 25, 2003
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Nederland , Texas
I am in Southeast Texas, 90 miles from Houston and I get the following :

77 - low of 50 to a high of 56.
72.7 - low of 60 to a high of 70.
61.5 - low of 45 to a high of 70.

I installed it myself and there is the azimuth cam that has to be fine tuned to get the sweet spot between all 3 sats. Also the elevation rod that can be adjusted to give the best signal strength as well. I spent a few hours following the instructions and using a cheap 20.00 sat meter I was able to peak it on 72.7 and then spent a lot of time adjusting the azimuth cam a little to the left and a little to the right till I got that sweet spot of high signals on all 3. It isn't as easy as pointing and peaking a 1000.2 sat dish.
 

brownover

SatelliteGuys Pro
Feb 9, 2006
641
23
north carolina
I sure wish I knew what the future for 77 is. Right now I have 61.5/110/119 with 30 inche dish for 61.5. As it stands now, a dish 500 with a I adaptor for a single lnb pointed at 72.7 would give me everything I need. And of course add a dp21 switch. Anybody know what the future for 77 is?
 

digiblur

SatelliteGuys Master
Jun 8, 2005
14,190
2
Louisiana
I sure wish I knew what the future for 77 is. Right now I have 61.5/110/119 with 30 inche dish for 61.5. As it stands now, a dish 500 with a I adaptor for a single lnb pointed at 72.7 would give me everything I need. And of course add a dp21 switch. Anybody know what the future for 77 is?

The majority of the national programming that is still left on 77 will migrate to 72 this month. I assume 77 will be used for HD locals mostly and some national overflow with the current birds in place at 77. I doubt you'll see any national HD there for quite a while. But of course that can change in a heartbeat. They want everyone to have pure EA or WA setups so they can instantly move things on the fly between the 3 birds on each arc without affecting anyone.

If you have the equipment now...roll with it and go with the 72.7 added to you setup. If things change later down the road the go with the pure EA or WA setup.
 

brownover

SatelliteGuys Pro
Feb 9, 2006
641
23
north carolina
The majority of the national programming that is still left on 77 will migrate to 72 this month. I assume 77 will be used for HD locals mostly and some national overflow with the current birds in place at 77. I doubt you'll see any national HD there for quite a while. But of course that can change in a heartbeat. They want everyone to have pure EA or WA setups so they can instantly move things on the fly between the 3 birds on each arc without affecting anyone.

If you have the equipment now...roll with it and go with the 72.7 added to you setup. If things change later down the road the go with the pure EA or WA setup.
Thanks Digi.:)
 

englandman44601

SatelliteGuys Pro
Oct 10, 2008
166
0
alliance ohio
Pretty much the same as mike d said but i have a high of 62 on the 72.7 and a lows in the 50's. all the 77's are in the 50's. 61.5 spotbeam 1 is 68 all 61.5 transponders in the 50's to high of 72. Mostly all transponders on all sats are in the 50's some 60's and a few 70's on the 61.5 for me.
 

Hemi 6.1

On Vacation
May 3, 2007
12,056
1
Wayne County,Pa
Thanks much for your report. I'm losing channels due to low signal now. I'll give it another session of tweaking. I have the time. Tomorrow we expect some rain so we'll see how things hold up. I don't expect much. The rest of the week is supposed to be clear so I'll have some time to really tweak things.

If push comes to shove, I'll buy another 30" single dish and a 44 switch and build my EA with 3 dishes, all large size and single aim. Since I have three dish mounts, I'd rather do that and have the signal as I get annoyed with rain fade.
I had the same issue, and listening to some guys here telling me a lower signal is the norm.
Well thats might be the case, But not 30 points lower.
I had signal levels in the 30'on the 77, after the tech installed the 500+ reflector I was in the 40's.
I still wasn't satified with the signal levels, So I went out and , Got my peak left and right, Then I did the elevation.
I went from a 67 on TP 14 on th 61.5, up to 78.:rolleyes:
Now I have signals on the 72, 61-73 and the 77 59-72. About 10 - 15 points lower for a 1000.4


So the theary behind the signal being lower, may hold true, but on the 61.5 its only 5 less tops over the 500 dish.
30's are unacceptable! rain fade , snow fade, will interupt your signal really easy.
You should have signals on average 45-60 at minimum.
 

brownover

SatelliteGuys Pro
Feb 9, 2006
641
23
north carolina
I had the same issue, and listening to some guys here telling me a lower signal is the norm.
Well thats might be the case, But not 30 points lower.
I had signal levels in the 30'on the 77, after the tech installed the 500+ reflector I was in the 40's.
I still wasn't satified with the signal levels, So I went out and , Got my peak left and right, Then I did the elevation.
I went from a 67 on TP 14 on th 61.5, up to 78.:rolleyes:
Now I have signals on the 72, 61-73 and the 77 59-72. About 10 - 15 points lower for a 1000.4


So the theary behind the signal being lower, may hold true, but on the 61.5 its only 5 less tops over the 500 dish.
30's are unacceptable! rain fade , snow fade, will interupt your signal really easy.
You should have signals on average 45-60 at minimum.
Gosh Hemi, if we were young we would make great installers. I have always been able to improve on what an installer left me with. I have my dishes on the ground now so I can always do I want to with them.:)
 

Hemi 6.1

On Vacation
May 3, 2007
12,056
1
Wayne County,Pa
Gosh Hemi, if we were young we would make great installers. I have always been able to improve on what an installer left me with. I have my dishes on the ground now so I can always do I want to with them.:)
Problem is, everyone goes by their bird dog meter and thats it.
The the best we can get according to the Bird dog.
Well while it may be close, Nothing beats a manual tuning. And they don't do that.
 

dishcomm

SatelliteGuys Master
Nov 29, 2005
10,377
540
suburbia
I had the same issue, and listening to some guys here telling me a lower signal is the norm.
Well thats might be the case, But not 30 points lower.
I had signal levels in the 30'on the 77, after the tech installed the 500+ reflector I was in the 40's.
I still wasn't satified with the signal levels, So I went out and , Got my peak left and right, Then I did the elevation.
I went from a 67 on TP 14 on th 61.5, up to 78.:rolleyes:
Now I have signals on the 72, 61-73 and the 77 59-72. About 10 - 15 points lower for a 1000.4


So the theary behind the signal being lower, may hold true, but on the 61.5 its only 5 less tops over the 500 dish.
30's are unacceptable! rain fade , snow fade, will interupt your signal really easy.
You should have signals on average 45-60 at minimum.

Here in the Carolinas, these are my target sigs for the 1000.4
Transponder(TP) satellite (SAT)
SAT TP Signal
61.5 14 68-72
61.5 29 59-63
61.5 31 48-52
61.5 32 48-52

72.7 15 56-60
72.7 17 56-60
72.7 19 57-60
72.7 21 53-58

77 16 52-56
77 20 52-56
77 21 55-59
I am able to hit these 100% of the time. The figure on the left is a minimum to pass a QC inspection. Typically after a bit of tweaking I can get well above the minimums.
Please note!!! Signal strengths vary from region to region.
Unless there has been a change to the way sat signals are sent to Earth, the farther from the geographic center of the US one is, the weaker the signals.
I used to have in my possession a signal strength matrix for the major metro areas across the country. I can't find the darned thing for all the tea in China.
 

Hemi 6.1

On Vacation
May 3, 2007
12,056
1
Wayne County,Pa
61.5 14 68-72
61.5 29 59-63
61.5 31 48-52
61.5 32 48-52

72.7 15 56-60
72.7 17 56-60
72.7 19 57-60
72.7 21 53-58

77 16 52-56
77 20 52-56
77 21 55-59
.

The Best we could get on my 1000.4 before we went to the 1000.5
  • 61.5 -14 -66%
  • 61.5 -29 -58%
  • 61.5 -31 -49%
  • 61.5 -32 -46%
  • 72.7 -15 -56%
  • 72.7 -17 -59%
  • 72.7 -19 -57%
  • 72.7 -21 -60%
  • 77 -16 -44%
  • 77 -20 -46%
  • 77 -21 -51%
Yes I wrote them all down.:)
Add about 10% on each with my 500+ reflector.
 

dishcomm

SatelliteGuys Master
Nov 29, 2005
10,377
540
suburbia
Problem is, everyone goes by their bird dog meter and thats it.
The the best we can get according to the Bird dog.
Well while it may be close, Nothing beats a manual tuning. And they don't do that.
Bird dog is NOT recomended for the 1000.4
The best installers have the Super Sat Buddy.
This meter allows us to see the actual signal strengths displayed in the on screen meter.
Of course in the case of this thread we're not discussing a few clicks. Some of the readings in this thread are alarmingly low
 

dishcomm

SatelliteGuys Master
Nov 29, 2005
10,377
540
suburbia
Please note.....The signal strengths seen on your tv screen ARE NOT displayed in percentage. What you are seeing is merely a "point"system.
This point system is a representation of the signal strength the receiver "thinks" it is getting.
 

TheForce

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Master
Supporting Founder
Pub Member / Supporter
Oct 13, 2003
32,562
9,892
Jacksonville, FL, Earth
Thanks everyone. Some very valuable info being posted. I do agree that I do not have it properly tweaked.

One change I really think I must do is add some guy bars to the mast. It just has too much wobble for my comfort. Once that is done and I can tweak the dish solidly, I think the readings will be more reliable.

For you experienced 1000.4 installers,- If I connect my analog meter to port 1 and have the DVR tuning set for 72.7 TP 21, do I adjust just the elevation and azimuth. Then when that is peaked, lock it down and adjust the skew to get maximum signal for both the 61.5 and 77.

With the analog meter connected to port 1, what bird will that meter see? I can see why you all like to use a meter that identifies the sat bird because otherwise it's like a crap shoot.

I preset the dish out of the manual for the zip code 322xx- Azimuth 167, elevation of 53 and skew at 75. When I swung the dish clockwise through the signals the analog meter read three peaks and I locked it down to the center one, believing that was 72. It gave the same reading of 167 so I assume I did it right. I think if I lock the mast down with guys, the readings won't be wobbling like they do now. Plus I should be able to adjust things easier.

I should be able to get back up there tomorrow.
 

dishcomm

SatelliteGuys Master
Nov 29, 2005
10,377
540
suburbia
Thanks everyone. Some very valuable info being posted. I do agree that I do not have it properly tweaked.

One change I really think I must do is add some guy bars to the mast. It just has too much wobble for my comfort. Once that is done and I can tweak the dish solidly, I think the readings will be more reliable.

For you experienced 1000.4 installers,- If I connect my analog meter to port 1 and have the DVR tuning set for 72.7 TP 21, do I adjust just the elevation and azimuth. Then when that is peaked, lock it down and adjust the skew to get maximum signal for both the 61.5 and 77.

With the analog meter connected to port 1, what bird will that meter see? I can see why you all like to use a meter that identifies the sat bird because otherwise it's like a crap shoot.

I preset the dish out of the manual for the zip code 322xx- Azimuth 167, elevation of 53 and skew at 75. When I swung the dish clockwise through the signals the analog meter read three peaks and I locked it down to the center one, believing that was 72. It gave the same reading of 167 so I assume I did it right. I think if I lock the mast down with guys, the readings won't be wobbling like they do now. Plus I should be able to adjust things easier.

I should be able to get back up there tomorrow.

can you get some quick set concrete in there? If not, the guy bars should be ok. But they won't do the job of a concreted pole.
ANyway....After you've plumbed the pole as best you can, snug the three nuts on the mast as best you can but NOT tight.. Now. Turn the dish to the east(left) and start your sweep to the west( right)..Reason. If you go west to east, you'll hit the 72.7 and be fooled into thinking you have it.
Sweep the dish slowly until your meter reacts. when the needle peaks, continue to slowly sweep past that point. Once the meter begins to indicate weaker signals, sweep back to the peak point. DO NOT let go of the dish. Take your 7/16th wrench and tighten the nuts on the clamp evenly. Do not crank one down then another then the third. This will "rock" the dish and throw it off.
Once you've tightened the nuts on the clamp, grasp the left and right edges of the dish. With even pressure try turning it left. Then right. If the signal goers down in both directions, you have the proper azimuth. If it does go down make the necessary adjustments. GENTLY..
Once you've established azimuth, grasp the dish top and bottom. Repeat the process same as the azimuth. Be gentle..
Seems rather involved but this takes muhc longer to type than to perform.
Good luck!
 
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