OK, CES is Over, Where’s the 811 Fixes- Venting Time

[jayn_j]

WeeJavaDude,

I'm not blaming the programmer, although they do need to put a little more pride in their work (maybe because so many of our software jobs have gone off shore, there isn't much of that left) and try to do a better job despite the lack of oversight by management. You're right, if you don't have management support, you're not going to have a good product.

Maybe I hit the nail on the head. Maybe all of the programming is done off shore in India or China. Problem is, E* isn't doing the required testing needed to put a solid product out to their customers.

I live here in Colorado and occassionally see job postings come up for Echostar engineering. The word around here is that E* engineering jobs pay low, are high pressure and very much schedule driven. I've spoken to a couple of folks who work there and they say morale is low and turnover high.

I am an owner of a small engineering company specializing in electronic test and data acquisition. I would tend to agree that the stuff E* is shipping would not meet my criteria for a QA entry checkpoint.

 

[hemway]

WeeJavaDude,

I have to reset the box usually once a night. A couple of times my wife left the box on while the TV was off, and then when she went to turn on the TV, either she didn't have sound, or the channels wouldn't change. Both of those times I had to pull the power to get it to reset.

As for the acquiring signal, if we are watching OTA programming for more then an hour and try to pull up the guide, we get that message. I'll try turning off the picture in the EPG to see if that helps any.

As for the OTA channels, I've tried to manually add them and I've tried the scan method. Only 2 of my digital stations automatically map to match the analog number. I also do not get any programming info in the guide for the OTA channels. Both of these issues are known problems and E* knows that their software is not meeting the industry standards.

 

[WeeJavaDude]

Hmmm.. I have only had my box 4 days but I not seeing these problems that you describe in my situation. Let me know if Turning on the display helps. It is just a guess to say the least.

WIth my 6000, I got that message a lot and I have only seen it once with the 811. I am starting to think it might be related to the fact I had the OTA cable running through my power conditionar. More runtime on my side may prove otherwise.

Where are you hemway? Did you have a 6000 before or another OTA HD turner? How sold is your OTA single on your channels? Do you get a lot of drop outs? You should get better automatic mapping than that? There is some strangness on OTA configuration for sure, but what your describing seems more nasty than my one channel that want to stay on 60. Most of mine mapped and gave the channel info correctly. From what I have read on the boards, not all channel provides are including this information and some are not including it correctly. I assume that is what is happening with my Channel 2.

I am not saying the 811 should not be more robust, but I am just wondering if it could be related to signal fluctuations and that is why the wide range of experiences users are having. Or maybe you have bad hardware?

As for mapping local guide info to OTA, My understanding is that this feature was not a promised feature? Could be wrong, but I did hear in one thread that they are working on it.

As for Industry Standard I am not sure what you mean by that so I will leave that one alone..

My box has been solid for 4 days since the intial installation issues.. I do turn it off overnight via remote, but do not power it off.

 

[hemway]

WeeJavaDude,
I'm in AZ and no, I did not have a 6000 or any other brand OTA receiver prior to the 811. When E* had their clearance sale on 6000's last November I was ready to grab one of those, but after reading all the comments in this, and other forums, I held off. After doing a ton of research on OTA receivers, I was just about to purchase the new Motorola STB when E* came out with their offer for the 811 to their current customers. After reviewing the specification for the 811, I went that route and waited though about a month of reschedules like everyone else. As for the industry standards, during my research on HD receivers, I found information (sorry, I'd have to go back and find the sites) that talked about what information is sent out with the digital signal. According to a couple of HD sites that talk about local HD, programming information and channel mapping is transmitted by all of our local DTV broadcasters. When I get a chance, I’ll post a question over there to reconfirm this.

I don't subscribe to E*'s HD packages or any of their premium packages because the amount and type of HD programming available, didn't meet my needs. I was mostly interested in the OTA capability for now and wanted to be in a good position if and when E* did start transmitting HD content that was of interest to us.

Of my local OTA stations we watch (60% of our total viewing) and have programmed in our 811 (once again, I've tried both the scanning feature and manual option to load my local ATV and DTV programming to the 811) and none of them have a signal strength under 90%, so I've never experienced any drop outs. As a side note, I deleted some of the local stations from the local programming after the scan process, channels we don't watch like the shopping channel or Spanish channels.

Also, I’d like to clarify that when I said powered down my 811, I meant that I turned off the 811 at the remote. Whether I turn the receiver off at night, or leave it on, when I turn on the TV and try to pull up the guide, I have no information available for any of the channels, OTA or satellite. Note here that the guide will only come up with no information available if I left the 811 tuned to a satellite channel. If I left it tuned to an OTA channel and press the guide button, I get the acquiring signal message.

 

[WeeJavaDude]

Hemway,

Well your signal strength is stronger than mine. Does it fluctuate a lot or is it pretty rock solid. I think Mine are in the 80s on some channels. I would confirm that other people are getting HD info in the OTA streams. There is two types that I am aware of. One is the what type of channel info and the other os program guide information. I am not sure if program Guide info is sent OTA or if it has to be a product of the Cable or DSS companies. Maybe someone with more knowledge in that area can provide this info or a search on the HD forum will give some clues.

Sounds like you got a good signal and the fact that you are loosing sound right and left would make me think you might have a hardware problem or maybe your configuration brings out a software bug more frequently.

I have both the HD package and OTA and like I said I am not having any stability problems thus far. Not discounting yours for sure, but giving my experience as another data point.

Not sure what other suggestions I can offer, Did you disable the Video on Guide feature? If so, I would be intersted if that improved things after a few days.

Also you might want to try power off (Plug out) power on and see if that makes things more stable.

 

[hemway]

WeeJavaDude,

My OTA signals are solid as a rock. I've turned off the picture in guide, but I really can't say if that helped much or not because we haven't used the 811 much lately. Because of the darker picture on the RCA outputs and the other problems I've reported, we only use it to watch OTA HD shows. For regular OTA we use the TV tuner, and for satellite, we use the 501.

Waiting for the fixes (whenever that happens) before we go back to using it on a regular bases.

 

[babakanoosh]

Like many here I have seen many 811 problems. I had a new one today where it just dropped 2 stations (POR fix). I make it a point to call E* every time even though I know they will just tell me to do a POR or a Switch Test. I am now changing to emailing them on every problem every time it comes up. This forum is valuable to know you are not alone but does nothing to get anything fixed. I recommend everone blast E* by phone and email every time a problem occurs. As soon as my cable company offers HD I am going to dump E*. I am going to use all these documented issues (and lack of responce) to avoid the cancellation charge. I have some tolerance for bugs in a new high tech product, but I expect E* to at least publish a list of known problems, priorities and fix dates. I think that would help them tremendously with credibility.

 

[belawrence]

WeeJavaDude
I think that once you get your 811 and start experiencing all the fine qualities it has to offer like resetting it once or twice a day,

I gotta ask how you use your 811, as I haven't had to reset mine once in the 1 1/2 months i've had it?

 

[keith]

I also have had to reset the 811 a few times, mostly when the digital audio output goes dead. When the audio works, my Denon AVR-3300 receiver more often than not will indicate the signal is ProLogic when I know it should be indicating Dolby Digital. The state of the art UHF Pro remote can't control the common Denon. Have to retest the switches occasionally after powering on. The 2 hour guide sometimes gets confused. S-video is unwatchably dark - uncorrectable crushed blacks. This weekend an OTA will be connected and the OTA bugs will be explored. Over time, I am seeing every bug that has been reported on this forum. "Video in guide" is disabled.

As far as my usage pattern, I use the 811 when I watch TV !!! The 811 should be able to handle that, LOL.

Keith.

 

[Kevin_Texas]

I am having the same problems as Hemway.

I found that when I stay on a OTA for a long time then select the guide
button I will get aquiring satellite message.

Just my 2 cents

 

[WeeJavaDude]

I am having the same problems as Hemway.

I found that when I stay on a OTA for a long time then select the guide
button I will get aquiring satellite message.

Just my 2 cents

This is a known problem. I had it happen a lot with my 6000. Very noticable. With the 811 it seems to happen less. I think It has happend twice, once when turning it on and once during the first day... I would put this one high on the priority list for sure.

 

[John Kotches]

The most aggravating problem for me is the dropping of a DTV station from the lineup.

Each time I want to watch my local CBS affiliate, I have to reenter it into my channel lineup.

Arrgghhh... what a PITA.

 

[WeeJavaDude]

The most aggravating problem for me is the dropping of a DTV station from the lineup.

Each time I want to watch my local CBS affiliate, I have to reenter it into my channel lineup.

Arrgghhh... what a PITA.

John.. Where are you located? I had this problem initiallly and found if I just did a scan and let it station stay where it wanted to be at that it did not disappear. With the 6000 I would have channels disappear also. Looks like the code was ported.

Oh.. Someone metioned reporting bugs. Where does one go about doing that? I would like to provide feedback and suggestions.

 

[John Kotches]

I'm in the St. Louis metro area, and I've rescanned on a number of occasions.

It doesn't solve the problem, sadly.

Cheers,

 

[hemway]

WeeJavaDude,

Just an update on removing the picture in the guide on my 811. I turned that off and then turned off the 811 (remote power off) while it was tuned to a satellite channel. Next morning I turned on the 811 and pulled up the guide, and there was no information available. I then tuned in an OTA channel and turned off the receiver. When I got home from work, I turn on the 811 and pulled up the guide and I still had no information available. When I did this with the picture in guide on, I would get the acquiring signal message, so turning off the picture in the guide helped that a little but is a feature I use a lot when channel surfing.

I also tried, for the third time, removing all my OTA channels and did both a ATV & DTV scan. I deleted the junk channels. All but one digital channel mapped correctly to the analog channel. Went out to the guide and selected one of the digital channels to watch, and when I went back to the guide, the mapping for that channel was gone and the 'real' digital channel number was displayed. Not only that, but the station call letters were gone also. This happens with all but two of my digital channels.

I then removed all the OTA channels again, and then manually entered both the analog and digital channels (here you have to key in call letters). Once again everything mapped OK, but once you watched the digital cannel, when you returned to the guide, the mapping was gone. This time however, because I manually keyed in the station letters, they still showed up in the guide next to the true digital channel number.

One last thing before I finish venting, everyone keeps listing all the problems and bugs that the 811 has but we all forget that we can’t play with channel 100!

E* FIX YOUR DA%M SOFTWARE AND GIVE ME THE FEATURES YOU ADVERTISED YOU WERE GOING TO GIVE ME!!!!

 

[WeeJavaDude]

WeeJavaDude,

Just an update on removing the picture in the guide on my 811. I turned that off and then turned off the 811 (remote power off) while it was tuned to a satellite channel. Next morning I turned on the 811 and pulled up the guide, and there was no information available. I then tuned in an OTA channel and turned off the receiver. When I got home from work, I turn on the 811 and pulled up the guide and I still had no information available. When I did this with the picture in guide on, I would get the acquiring signal message, so turning off the picture in the guide helped that a little but is a feature I use a lot when channel surfing.

I also tried, for the third time, removing all my OTA channels and did both a ATV & DTV scan. I deleted the junk channels. All but one digital channel mapped correctly to the analog channel. Went out to the guide and selected one of the digital channels to watch, and when I went back to the guide, the mapping for that channel was gone and the 'real' digital channel number was displayed. Not only that, but the station call letters were gone also. This happens with all but two of my digital channels.

I then removed all the OTA channels again, and then manually entered both the analog and digital channels (here you have to key in call letters). Once again everything mapped OK, but once you watched the digital cannel, when you returned to the guide, the mapping was gone. This time however, because I manually keyed in the station letters, they still showed up in the guide next to the true digital channel number.

One last thing before I finish venting, everyone keeps listing all the problems and bugs that the 811 has but we all forget that we can’t play with channel 100!

E* FIX YOUR DA%M SOFTWARE AND GIVE ME THE FEATURES YOU ADVERTISED YOU WERE GOING TO GIVE ME!!!!

Glad to hear that turning off the guide helped the acquiring signal. I also like this feature, but since it seemed to be very unrealiable my gut told me to disable until the next software update. I guess I am of the opinion, if it is broke dont use it if possible. Causes too much headaches.

The OTA mapping issue you describe is exactly what I am seeing with channel 2. It is definitely a bug and I just keep it on the channels they tend to want to stay at.

I also see the information not avaliable messages when I first turn on my 811. it takes some time to fill up the guide. I guess if I left it on all the time that this problem would go away, but I would rather not do that. I also agree this is bug and most likely will be removed when the 40 hour guide gets replaced. I would expect that when you turn off an 811 it would keep the guide updated since it is doing nothing but getting updates if necessary and sending PPV info.

As for E* fixing these problem I think I am anxious as you are but also know they never happend fast enough. My suggestion is leave the OTA channels at the places they want to live (I get the impression they don't disappear completely) and keep the Picture in Guide off until the next update then see if they fixed things. Someone suggested emailing these problems to E* and I plan on doing that this week. I would suggest that you do the same. Venting on here is cool, but if your goal is to get these things fixed then provide the input to E*. The more that does it the more exposure it should get. (We hope)

Cheers

 

[hemway]

Trust me, I send the same email to E* once a week Listing all my problems and their lack of support for the PSIP data standard, and they send back the same response, 'Yes we are aware of this problem', and I hope everyone else is doing the same.

I posted my venting here because I've heard that people from E* troll around these forums. Maybe they'll take the hint that people are pis*ed off.

 

[John Kotches]

hemway,

I did exactly what you did last night with the same results. Fortunately, only 1 station is problematic for me, the local CBS affiliate.

The other item is getting rid of the sound when you go into the guide. I'm picking up a signal (around 15.75kHz) when I enter into the guide.

Cheers,

 

[WeeJavaDude]

John,

Do you have the Video on your GUIDE enabled or disabled?

Hemway,

What is the email address? I will send them an email too.

As for E* trolling. My definition of a troll is someone looking to pick a fight. I don't think that is the intention of E*. but I am sure there are definitions of a troll.

 

[AndyMon]

As far as my usage pattern, I use the 811 when I watch TV !!! The 811 should be able to handle that, LOL.

Keith.

Keith, what would lead you to believe such a thing??? You should know better by now. :shocked