OTA locals not mapping in the guide!

[bmxcookie]

Has anyone else been having issues with the OTA locals not showing their guide info? We are in the North Platte DMA, #208, and our locals are not in HD yet through Dish, they are on the OTA. We have all of the affiliates, except our ABC in piped in from the neighboring DMA from our direct East. I went to CEDIA last September and spoke to an "engineer" and........... well, nothing yet. I have tried several other different digital converter boxes, connecting them to an antenna and TV by themselves and I can get the guide info through those devices. Why can't I get it through the Dish USB dongle or the MTA2 for the 722k/222k?

 

[Hall]

My first thought was that Dish only "copies" the guide data from the HD locals to the corresponding OTA channels and since there are no HD locals, that would be why you don't see the data. According to the info here, http://uplink.jameslong.name/locallist.html, that's not the case though. You should be seeing guide data for at least a few of them.

Your best hope is for this to change if/when Dish starts carrying your locals in HD. Otherwise, they won't help with this issue at all....

 

[MikeD-C05]

The stations have to pass through the correct guide data to DISH. But it looks like others have talked to DISH about this issue and they have chosen to not do guide data for the sub channels, other than the 4 main networks and any other ota channels that DISH has also uploaded to the satellite for that dma. Sounds like DISH doesn't want to support the other sub channels any longer. I suggested before on this site and to DISH itself ,if they didn't want to do the sub channels allow the receivers to read the PSIP data that is in the air like my tv reads it. It would at least tell you what is on currently, but you would have to use manual timers to record anything on them since the data wouldn't go out that far and it wouldn't support name based recording . DISH has yet to respond to this suggestion ,but if they do , I will post their answer. I sent an email today to a contact I have at Echostar and I hope to hear back soon.

 

[gpflepsen]

I sent you a PM. The subchannels are generally the complaint, but I understand you don't get the main channel guide data.

Consider a "move" to get what you want.

 

[Hall]

...but I understand you don't get the main channel guide data.

Consider a "move" to get what you want.

What will moving do for him with the OTA channel's guide data ? I'm not disputing this, just trying to understand what will (may ?) happen.

 

[MikeD-C05]

I have all my guide data in my local dma except the new GRIT station that started 1/1/15 on Sub channel 6.3 and the older Mytx and TeleMundo Fox station on subs channels 12.5 and 12.6 . I don't expect the later two to ever be uploaded because they get broadcast on low powered station antenna. The GRIT station might be uploaded since the guide data comes from a Main channel CBS 6.1 in our area. All the rest of my main networks have guide data. I really hope that DISH will take my suggestion to heart and do the PSIP data. It would solve a world of problems for both the consumer and DISH itself. Oh , I "moved" years ago the last decade to get Houston stations in Hd so I get all those stations as well as my real local area Beaumont,Tx. Been a "mover" going back about 12 years now.

 

[gpflepsen]

What will moving do for him with the OTA channel's guide data ? I'm not disputing this, just trying to understand what will (may ?) happen.

He would at least then get guide data for ABC, NBC, CBS, and PBS. It sounds like he has an antenna already, so he will have the best of everything. Plus, he will have the broadcast networks in HD via DISH.

 

[Hall]

Has anyone else been having issues with the OTA locals not showing their guide info?

Do the channels show up in the list but just say "Digital Service" in 2 or 4 hour blocks ?

He would at least then get guide data for ABC, NBC, CBS, and PBS. It sounds like he has an antenna already, so he will have the best of everything. Plus, he will have the broadcast networks in HD via DISH.

You think that because his market doesn't have HD-locals at all that the receiver has the OTA channels disabled ? I guess we'd need to see his answer to my question just above as it's not clear what he has.

 

[osu1991]

The stations have to pass through the correct guide data to DISH. But it looks like others have talked to DISH about this issue and they have chosen to not do guide data for the sub channels, other than the 4 main networks and any other ota channels that DISH has also uploaded to the satellite for that dma. Sounds like DISH doesn't want to support the other sub channels any longer. I suggested before on this site and to DISH itself ,if they didn't want to do the sub channels allow the receivers to read the PSIP data that is in the air like my tv reads it. It would at least tell you what is on currently, but you would have to use manual timers to record anything on them since the data wouldn't go out that far and it wouldn't support name based recording . DISH has yet to respond to this suggestion ,but if they do , I will post their answer. I sent an email today to a contact I have at Echostar and I hope to hear back soon.

I suggested this in the ask dish technical questions a few days ago and got my head bitten off for suggesting such. Dish has no plans to support any more subchannels or allow psip pass thru. Made it easy to cancel one of my Dish accounts the other day.

 

[MikeD-C05]

I suggested this in the ask dish technical questions a few days ago and got my head bitten off for suggesting such. Dish has no plans to support any more subchannels or allow psip pass thru. Made it easy to cancel one of my Dish accounts the other day.

I asked this question to my contact at Echostar and hopefully he won't bite my head off too, when he responds. I don't know why suddenly DISH has turned away from guide data for ota sub channels ,but it might have something to do with the local channels asking for more money in retransmission costs. They might just not care anymore since it isn't satellite related. That and all the ota channels keep adding sub channels and moving them back and forth. Regardless the idea is a sound one and I don't see why they wouldn't do it . It would seem to me that they could easily do this software change. IF you think back to last year , we had no ability to do name based recording on Sub channels and had to set manual timers. All they have to do is do this again, but let the receiver fill out the guide data with PSIP data and we all get some guide data for the sub channels and not the main 4 networks that DISH already carries. Works this way on the DISH Dtv pal plus dvr that Echostar made with all the ota channels. The subscriber is happy with guide data and DISH no longer has to worry about what channel is added and whether they are moved back and forth ,etc.

 

[Mr Tony]

He would at least then get guide data for ABC, NBC, CBS, and PBS. .

not necessarily. Seen examples where they don't (this is one)

You think that because his market doesn't have HD-locals at all that the receiver has the OTA channels disabled ?.

Irrelevant. But again we have the same issue as in another thread about Lima, OH. Here is his list of channels that would have OTA guide info

2-01 KNOP TSID 0x07A7, Subchannel 01 (DISH Channel 6572)
9-01 KPNE TSID 0x07A9, Subchannel 01 (DISH Channel 6574)
13-01 KHGI TSID 0x0797, Subchannel 01 (DISH Channel 6570)
13-02 KHGI2 TSID 0x0797, Subchannel 02 (DISH Channel 14640)

KNOP is NBC (Fox is on a subchannel 2-2)
KPNE is PBS

now the issues
CBS is KNPL 25. It was a translator of the CBS in Lincoln/Grand Island. In September (IIRC) they upgraded it to a legit station with local news. No guide info from Dish OTA
ABC is carried also on a translator (KHGI-LD) on 27. Dish carries the "mother" feed from Hastings/Grand Island. The issue is the OTA station is 27, NOT 13 so it won't match up properly. It has to match the channel number that Dish has or it wont get guide info.

So technically the OP will get 2 stations guide info (NBC & PBS)

 

[osu1991]

I asked this question to my contact at Echostar and hopefully he won't bite my head off too, when he responds. I don't know why suddenly DISH has turned away from guide data for ota sub channels ,but it might have something to do with the local channels asking for more money in retransmission costs. They might just not care anymore since it isn't satellite related. That and all the ota channels keep adding sub channels and moving them back and forth. Regardless the idea is a sound one and I don't see why they wouldn't do it . It would seem to me that they could easily do this software change. IF you think back to last year , we had no ability to do name based recording on Sub channels and had to set manual timers. All they have to do is do this again, but let the receiver fill out the guide data with PSIP data and we all get some guide data for the sub channels and not the main 4 networks that DISH already carries. Works this way on the DISH Dtv pal plus dvr that Echostar made with all the ota channels. The subscriber is happy with guide data and DISH no longer has to worry about what channel is added and whether they are moved back and forth ,etc.

Preaching to the choir. I said exactly that, but was given a million and one excuses and Scott said he was told it was not coming and Dish was doing no more than they currently do. I dropped one of my Dish accounts that day, as locals is really all that was watched most of the time on that account. My mom used the Pal more as it had the data for the subchannels she wanted to watch, especially OETA Create, Grit, and GetTv. I have 3 Paldvr's and 3-4 days of psip data for all but one local channel in Tulsa. Las Vegas is another story.

 

[Hall]

Dish has no "business" reason (read: revenue) to do anything related to OTA service.

Before long, they'll probably stop selling the OTA modules...

 

[Mr Tony]

well looking at the Directv database they only carry KNOP and the 3 PBS stations.

 

[gpflepsen]

not necessarily. Seen examples where they don't (this is one)

Specifically, I suggest the OP move to the Lincoln GI DMA. They have LIL guide data and thus he will get LIL with guide data. Subchannels are hit and miss, but the PBS has guide data for the subs.

He appears to have OTA so they would be integrated, sans guide data. This (moving) will set him up fine.

 

[Mr Tony]

Specifically, I suggest the OP move to the Lincoln GI DMA. They have LIL guide data and thus he will get LIL with guide data. Subchannels are hit and miss, but the PBS has guide data for the subs.

He appears to have OTA so they would be integrated, sans guide data. This (moving) will set him up fine.

What are you talking about? "Moving" doesnt help him with OTA guide data. That is what he is trying to accomplish. Getting guide data for his locals OTA

 

[gpflepsen]

Sorry man, I was working with the thought he wasn't getting lil too. I've been traveling all day and bouncing in n out. 8)

 

[Mr Tony]

Sorry man, I was working with the thought he wasn't getting lil too. I've been traveling all day and bouncing in n out. 8)

nah its all good
I was just confused

(funny thing is if he did move to Lincoln/GI he would get the same CBS sans news, the same ABC and the same PBS as he currently has)

 

[DishSubLA]

I still have data, and had for a long time for, as examples, TWO small, local, very tiny independent stations here in Los Angeles who have good EPG data for their sub-channels. There are more, but also small local KSCI still has guide data for some of its sub-channels, and this has been the case for a long time, as well. I can also tell you that our locally Tribune owned CW (NOT one of the big four) has complete guide data for both of its sub-channels: AntennaTV and ThisTV.

The "only the Big Four" response from Dish was at best inaccurate and at worst complete B.S. Well, it seems that providing OTA sub-channel for more sub-channels than they do today would at some point--with a labor cost, a technical cost, or additional EPG data cost from Tribune--just cost Dish money that it refuses to spend. And if Dish would just TELL US WHY they don't want to provide OTA sub-channel guide for all channels, we would have a better understanding and may even support Dish's decision.

 

[osu1991]

Yes some subchannels have data, mainly those that were added several years ago. If Dish already has guide data for a subchannel and that channel changes to something else, more than likely the guide data will change for the new channel. I fully expect KJRH2.2 to have guide data for whatever Scripps puts there after LWN goes dark, as we already have guide data on that channel. We had guide data on KMYT41.2 for Zuus when that changed to Gettv the guide data changed, but when they added Grit to 41.3 no data, MeTv and Escape on KOKI no data, OETA OKla 11.2 has data but OETA Create on 11.3 no data however OETA Kids on 11.4 has data. No rhyme or reason for their lack of consistency