pansat 3500 s with motor - receive no signal quality at all

[satellite_beginner]

Hi,

i have set up my satellite system yesterday and don#t even receive 10% of
signal quality neither for the "most south" nor for one of other satellites that i try.

Please note that motor moves as expected, thus hookup from receiver to motor seems ok (INPUT of receiver hooked up to motor, then another connection between motor and lnb).

I can imagine several reasons:

a) distance from receiver to dish-motor is too big (ca. 150 feet with RG6 cable)

b) Dish is installed in a "valley". Dish has a free area around it, but when i am drawing a theoretical line from LNB to the sky. the line would be just above some trees that are in a distance of about 1/2 mile.
Cons: neighbors can receive TV with their dish satellite system

c) White cap on top of LNB does not enclose LNB 100% (fabrication failure - small slot open, received as is) - don't know whether that makes LNB unusable.

d) Wrong setup


Configuration:

- Pansat 900 motor
- Pansat 3500 S receiver
- Microelectronics Technology Inc LNBF (says 10750 on lnbf itself, no further info available)
- Fortect Star 36'' dish.


My location is woodbine MD, with the following setups:
longitude = 77.0 latitude = 39.2

I have installed the mounting post in the "perfectly" vertical manner (as far as the HW allows this) and it is in level.

I pointed the dish into the south direction at around 186 (true south).

Then i have hooked up the receiver to motor and configured the following setups in the 3500S:

lnb type standard
lnb local freq 10750
22khz off
diseqC #3
skew 0
tp (1) 11762 V11.113
position setting USAL
satellite scan FTA + unscramble

Satellite position : 79 W
My longitute: 77W
My Latitude: 39.2
Ref. Pos ok
MOve 2.3 W


The receiver shows a Level of 70% and a quality of 0%.

Any ideas?

 

[PSB]

I would remove the motor and switch and try to find and store a few satellites first.

If the trees are a half mile away they would have to be REALLY big to be the problem. Have a look at the below satellite clearance program.....

http://www.bjup.com/services/bjhomesat/tech_support/obstacle.html

The LNB should be water tight, but in saying that the ASC-421 has small holes in the LNB cap to let water out (I guess) I would seal it up with a dab of clear silicon to be on the safe side or contact the retailr for advice or a swap out if need be.

 

[PSB]

150' of cable should not be a problem....

    Woodbine, MD 21797
Latitude 39° 20.784'N Longitude 77° 3.882'W

              Sat Name Sat Lng Az(t) Az(m)   El  Skew
-----------------------------------------------------
                      
          Intelsat 905   24.5W 115.9 127.4 19.9 -44.1
          Intelsat 907   27.5W 118.4 129.9 22.0 -42.9
         Hispasat 1C/D   30.0W 120.5 132.1 23.8 -41.8
          Intelsat 801   31.5W 121.9 133.4 24.9 -41.1
          Intelsat 903   34.5W 124.6 136.2 27.0 -39.5
           AMC 12/T 11   37.5W 127.5 139.1 29.0 -37.8
               NSS 806   40.5W 130.5 142.1 30.9 -36.0
             Pas 3R/6B   43.0W 133.2 144.7 32.5 -34.3
                Pas 1R   45.0W 135.3 146.9 33.7 -32.9
          Intelsat 705   50.0W 141.1 152.7 36.5 -29.0
          Intelsat 707   53.0W 144.8 156.4 38.1 -26.4
          Intelsat 805   55.5W 148.1 159.6 39.3 -24.1
                 Pas 9   58.0W 151.4 163.0 40.3 -21.7
              Amazonas   61.0W 155.6 167.1 41.5 -18.7
            EchoStar 3   61.5W 156.3 167.8 41.7 -18.1
             Rainbow 1   61.5W 156.3 167.8 41.7 -18.1
              Nahuel 1   71.8W 171.7 183.3 44.1  -6.4
             DirecTV 1   72.5W 172.8 184.4 44.2  -5.5
                 AMC 6   72.0W 172.0 183.6 44.2  -6.1
             Galaxy 12   74.0W 175.2 186.7 44.3  -3.7
                 SBS 6   74.0W 175.2 186.7 44.3  -3.7
               GOES 12   75.0W 176.7 188.3 44.4  -2.5
                 AMC 5   79.0W 183.1 194.6 44.4   2.4
             DirecTV 3   81.8W 187.4 199.0 44.2   5.7
               Nimiq 2   82.0W 187.8 199.3 44.2   6.0
          Brasilsat B3   84.0W 190.9 202.4 43.9   8.4
              AMC 2/16   85.0W 192.4 204.0 43.7   9.6
                 AMC 3   87.0W 195.4 207.0 43.3  11.9
                  IA-8   89.0W 198.4 210.0 42.8  14.2
             Galaxy 11   91.0W 201.4 212.9 42.2  16.4
             Nimiq 1/3   91.0W 201.4 212.9 42.2  16.4
          Brasilsat B4   92.0W 202.8 214.4 41.9  17.5
             Telstar 6   93.0W 204.2 215.8 41.5  18.5
             Galaxy 3C   95.0W 207.0 218.6 40.8  20.6
             Telstar 5   97.0W 209.8 221.3 40.0  22.6
             Galaxy 4R   99.0W 212.4 224.0 39.1  24.5
       DirecTV 1R/4S/8  101.0W 215.0 226.6 38.1  26.3
                 AMC 4  101.0W 215.0 226.6 38.1  26.3
            Spaceway 1  102.0W 216.3 227.8 37.6  27.2
                 AMC 1  103.0W 217.5 229.0 37.1  28.1
                AMC 15  105.0W 219.9 231.5 36.1  29.7
           Anik F1/F1R  107.3W 222.6 234.1 34.8  31.6
             DirecTV 6  109.5W 225.1 236.6 33.5  33.2
            EchoStar 6  110.0W 225.6 237.2 33.2  33.6
            EchoStar 8  110.0W 225.6 237.2 33.2  33.6
               Anik F2  111.1W 226.8 238.4 32.5  34.3
         Solidaridad 2  113.0W 228.8 240.4 31.3  35.6
              SatMex 5  116.8W 232.7 244.2 28.9  37.9
             DirecTV 5  119.0W 234.8 246.3 27.4  39.2
            EchoStar 7  119.0W 234.8 246.3 27.4  39.2
 EchoStar 9/Telstar 13  121.0W 236.7 248.2 26.0  40.2
            Galaxy 10R  123.0W 238.5 250.0 24.6  41.2
             Galaxy 12  125.0W 240.2 251.8 23.2  42.2
         Galaxy 13/H 1  127.0W 241.9 253.5 21.8  43.0
  Telstar 7/Echostar 5  129.0W 243.6 255.2 20.3  43.8
                AMC 11  131.0W 245.2 256.8 18.9  44.6
             Galaxy 1R  133.0W 246.8 258.4 17.4  45.3
                AMC 10  135.0W 248.3 259.9 15.9  45.9
                 AMC 7  137.0W 249.8 261.4 14.4  46.6
                 AMC 8  139.0W 251.3 262.9 12.9  47.1
            EchoStar 1  148.0W 257.6 269.2  6.0  49.1
            EchoStar 2  148.0W 257.6 269.2  6.0  49.1
                      
............................................................
                      
 *** DBS SATELLITE ***
                      
         EchoStar 3/R1   61.5W 156.3 167.8 41.7 -18.1
          EchoStar 6/8  110.0W 225.6 237.2 33.2  33.6
            EchoStar 7  119.0W 234.8 246.3 27.4  39.2
 EchoStar 9/Telstar 13  121.0W 236.7 248.2 26.0  40.2
            EchoStar 5  129.0W 243.6 255.2 20.3  43.8
          EchoStar 1/2  148.0W 257.6 269.2  6.0  49.1
                      
               Nimiq 2   82.0W 187.8 199.3 44.2   6.0
             Nimiq 1/3   91.0W 201.4 212.9 42.2  16.4
                      
       DirecTV 1R/4S/8  101.0W 215.0 226.6 38.1  26.3
             DirecTV 5  110.0W 225.6 237.2 33.2  33.6
            DirecTV 7S  119.0W 234.8 246.3 27.4  39.2
                      

Satellite Finder is (c) Copyright 2004, P. Lutus

 

[satellite_beginner]

ok, i'll try.

Another thing i noticed, is that in the quality screen the pansat 3500S shows
a button
"unlock".

The manual doesn't describe what that means.

Is there any way in the pansat 3500 to "unlock" (enable?) a satellite?

Maybe thats the problem?

And another thing: was does the "level" indicate? (no discription as well in the manual)


Thanks
Hans-Joerg

 

[PSB]

Signal level means NOTHING all you are looking for is signal QUALITY.
Unlocked means you do not have enough (or any) signal quality for a stable picture. The signal will LOCK and you will get a picture when you get enough signal quality.

 

[dirtyshame]

I too, am a beginner at FTA and I agree with you that the Pansat 3500S manual is almost worthless to a beginner. As I read your post I noticed that the skew reading was 0 and I believe that it should be close to 45 (+ for one polarity and - for the other, I think).
What I would do is set the motor for true South, make sure the motor elevation is set to your latitude (so the arc will be right when you scan the sky). Next, I would click on "Factory Settings" which will correct any mistakes you may have made in setting it up. Then I would take the receiver and a portable TV set out to the dish and hook them up outside.
Turn on the receiver and the TV and select the satellite that is closest to true South. Use the motor to move the dish to the approx. angle, adjust the elevation of the dish and watch the signal Level and Quality on the TV screen. As you get close to the satellite the signal level will rise and then the quality will rise. Then do a "Smart Search" and wait for it to finish. A list of channels will appear and you can choose one and press OK.
I may have forgotten something but maybe Pete will correct me If I did. Two things are critical: With the motor rotor centered and the dish pointed true South and the proper latitude set mechanically, tighten the motor to the pole, tighten the latitude adjustment and don't touch them again unless you goofed. The motor rotor has a cam that is at it's uppermost angle when set for true South. From there the dish will start moving down no matter if you are moving East or West.
Another thing to remember about signal LEVEL is that it can be noise as well as true signal so it can only be used to tell when you are getting close to a satellite.
Good Luck!
dirtyshame

 

[satellite_beginner]

All,

i removed the dish motor and hooked the receiver directly up to the dish.
I also set the receiver back to the default setting.

Then i doublechecked, that the direction of the dish was directly to south.

Then i put the dish to 44.4 degree elevation and turned the dish slowly to left and right --- no result at all, the quality was still ZERO. (according to
AMC 5 79.0W 183.1 194.6 44.4 2.4)


I then moved the dish up and down (elevation level) and still got ZERO quality.

I can't help but to think that the LNB has a problem - shouldn't i at least receive a signal quality of 10% even if the direction is not 1000% right?

Is there any way i can test, that the LNB works?

Any specific other idea that can solve the problem?

Thanks
Hans-Joerg

 

[PSB]

With KU signals you have to be bang on the signal. Near is not good enough.

New users often seem to think they have a bad LNBF, I would keep plugging away!

 

[dirtyshame]

Hans,
I have not purchased a motor for my dish yet but I expect to shortly. What I'm worried about is how to find true South. A compass may be enough but when you start trying to adjust for magnetic deviation I expect it to get hairy.

I'm new to FTA but have some experience with C-band and I had a little trouble getting the right angle there too. When we suspected a bad LNA (later LNB) we would swap it out with a known good one. Yours sounds like it could be bad except for all that noise you reported earlier. If the LNB was dead there would be little or no noise and no signal. I suggest that you study the angles again. Once you are satisfied that the true South has been found lock it down and use the motor to change azimuth.

Good Luck!

Old John

 

[Tron]

The skew setting in the Pansat receiver is for a BUD (Big Useful Dish), just ignore it.

You will, however, have to turn the LNB in its holder to set the skew, if you're using the dish WITHOUT a motor. If you're using a motor, you should set the LNB perfectly straight up and down (0 skew) as the shaft on the motor will automatically skew your entire dish and LNB.

As far as finding true south, if your receiver has USALS, its easy to point your motor. Just set the motor to '0', set up your USALS in the receiver with your latitude and longitude, and then use USALS to move to a satellite near your longitude. From there you can fine-tune your motor azimuth and dish elevation until you get quality on that satellite.

 

[dirtyshame]

Tron:

You make it sound so EASY! Can hardly wait for my motor to arrive.
Why can't they put info like that in the Owner's Manuals?

Old John

 

[Tron]

The manuals for most FTA equipment are notoriously muddled. I'm sure most here can vouch for that

This forum beats manuals hands down

 

[satellite_beginner]

Just finished redoing everything.
I am now sure that the dish points to "true south" and that the cable and motor are ok.

After testing quite a lot and never getting any signal quality i tried to test the lnb - thus i tired whether the
signal level would change when i put something in between the lnb and the dish.

Surprise: NOTHING changed, even if the lnb points into the free air I always have a quality of 0 but a level of 70%.

I assume that the signal level should change when not having a signal from the dish (i.e. if taken out of the lnb holder) - is this correct?


I ordered now a new lnb and a signal finder. Lets see whether this helps.

Thanks
Hans-Joerg

 

[PSB]

Just went to an open TP. (No Quality) Signal strength level was at 55, pulled out the LNBF cable and the signal strength level dropped to 26.

Signal strength does not mean a lot.

 

[dirtyshame]

Hans,

I got my pipe in the ground today so I will be installing my motor the day after tomorrow. I hope I have better luck than you are having! I was trying to duplicate your problem today using my C-band dish. I found out that you were correct about the signal level reading close to 70 when not pointed at a satellite, but it did go up when a signal was present. My LNB is one of the early ones and it is rated at .7 dB which is pretty noisy nowadays.

The main thing I found out though is that when you do an antenna setup choose a satellite that has some ku-band programming. The list will appear on the left side of the screen and the parameters on the right. If the LNB L.O. is 5150 it is set up for C-band and you will receive nothing even if you are pointing directly at it. If it reads 10750 it is set up for a ku-band and you will see a signal quality at the bottom if you are pointing at a satellite that has ku programming. After you have found it do a smart search.

The following is from an experienced contributor to this forum:

If your receiver has USALS, its easy to point your motor and even set your
dish elevations without worrying about the scale on the elevation mount or
what exact direction your true south is. Here's how:

Make sure when you install your motor that the shaft is set at '0'.
Install the motor with dish mounted on a LEVEL (this is VERY important,
must be exactly level) pole. I find it helpful to install the motor first
(don't over tighten the U-bolts that hold the motor bracket in place, they
break and strip VERY easily!) and then install the dish on the motor
shaft. Keep the motor loose enough on the pole so that you can move it
left and right but it won't slide down the pole. Point the whole
motor/dish assembly in the general direction of south. Connect the
receiver, set up a satellite near your true south (93w will do, or you
could put a DirecTV LNB on your dish temporarily and use 91w, which is a
Bell ExpressVu satellite). Go to the dish movement section of your setup,
and select USALS to move the dish. You will have to enter your longitude
and latitude. The receiver will then move the motor to where that
satellite should be with respect to true south. In the case of 91w, it
will move your motor a couple of degrees east. If you use 93, it won't
move it much at all, probably less than a degree. Then you just move the
entire motor/dish assembly right and left by hand SLOWLY until you get
signal. What you are essentially doing is working backwards from the
known position of a satellite to find true south. You will have to take
an educated guess at the elevation of the dish, but with 91w, it is such a
powerful satellite. You should get something if you're in the ballpark.
Once you get azimuth (right and left movement) set, tighten the motor
(again, do not over tighten the U-bolts) onto the pole. Then fine-tune
your dish elevation and lock that down. Once you set your motor elevation
at your longitude (do this first, before anything else), lock it down and
don't touch it. Only fine-tune the elevation on your dish.


SOUNDS EASY when done that way!


Old John

 

[ken2400]

Two questions.

One how long have you been working with FTA stuff?

Two do you have an inline signal meter?

 

[Tron]

The method above works well, as long as you have a USALS capable receiver. As far as the signal meter is concerned, I find it easier (unless you have a Birddog ) to just use a portable TV and take your STB out to the roof.

 

[jackpeas]

tring to setup 3500 pansat and hh motor

Hi I am jackpeas In Chicago,ILL 60643.I am having a hard time getting going with my pansat pm 900 hh motor.I set my lat. to 42.Make sure the shaft is at zero.Set the dish to 24 deg. I am useding a linera and circular lnb. to make easy to find the sats.I am getting 110,119 no linera birb.Could it be that my dish is to far west.Like 6 degree off.I tried to count the number of clicks from reference point to the sats.I got a specturm anerlyzer.I am having a hell of time finding amc 3 k3.When I scan I get a big spike/but it don't come in. please help.

 

[PSB]

So you are getting all the Dishnetwork channels 110/119 for free?

 

[satellite_beginner]

Hi all,

here some news:
I finally go the dish, receiver and motor working (kind of).

First, i replaced the whole mounting - i found that the original 3 pod that
came with the fortec dish and that i had mounted on a wooden palette was
not strong enough.
Thus i poured a pole into cement and made sure that the pole was 100% in
level.
I also had ordered a new lnb and a signal finder.
Then i used a signal finder to find the right elevation and moved the dish left and
right - finally got the signal at around 40% and then by luck found even
a satellite (snb 6) with a 99% quality.

I made the experience that with a motor, even 1 degree left/right makes a big difference.

Right now i can go from SBS5 (75% quality() to AMC 15 (20% quality) and find some satellites in the middle.

However, the one that i like to get -- GALAXY 4R --, i cannot get any quality, whereas i can receive telstar 6 at 97 W and AMC 15 at 105W (i am sure that it is AMC 15 as it has one channel that broadcast a screen saying it is AMC -2.

I also have a problem, that on telstar 6, the receiver seems not to receive all channel (it receives only around 10 programs, but should receive many more; only 2 out of 6 TP channels work for telstar 6).

Any ideas?
Thanks
Hans-Joerg