Please Help with 811 & 301 Hookup!

[sneoppy]

I am Dish500 customer with 301 single room setup. I have a dish500 dish (dual LNB 110/119) + 149 (Intl dish). I have a single feed into my 301.
I would like to add an 811 for my HD-ready Sony 32" directview TV.

Also, I might get an additional 522 DVR - so how do I hook everything up with my Sony. May also considered a 2nd (non-HD) TV in the bedroom. Will a splitter work to get additional feed from the sat? I can see only one wire coming out of both the dishes via a switch (2 in - 1 out).

Any help/pointers will be greatly appreciated!
Thanks.

 

[SimpleSimon]

You've given us most of the necessary info, but not all of it. I think you mean your Dish 500 has a TWIN, not a Dual. From what you've said, there's a single housing with 2 eyes, as opposed to 2 separate units, right? While you're looking, is there a big "DP" logo on it?

The switch you see - does it look like a conventional cable splitter - rectangular (SW21)? Or does it have rounded corners (DP21)? Also, go to the Check Switch screen and tell us what it says you have.

Hopefully, you have DishPro hardware. If so, all you'll need is a DP34 - that will handle all 4 tuners.

If not, your gear is Legacy, and it's gonna get a lot more complicated. Probably so much so that you'd probably be better off converting to DishPro. You'd need a SW64, with enough feeds for it - note the "6". That's 2 for each bird. It gets messy. Legacy Quad LNBF or a pair of Duals, plus the 300 has to be a Dual.

Oh - and NO, a splitter will NOT work - ever!

 

[sneoppy]

Its TWIN (single housing with 2 eyes)! Got confused about dual & twin!!
I have a SW21 3 SAT (Check switch also says
Input: 1,1,2,2,2,2
Sat: 148,148,110,110,119,119
I did not notice any DP logo on the dishes (from what I can see) just says Dish500.
I hope I answered all your questions. At a minimum I would be happy with 811 alone if theres a simple solution for it with the existing hardware!
Thanks a lot!

 

[SimpleSimon]

OK. You have Legacy (not DishPro) gear. I can tell by the SW-21 report. You can drop the 811 directly in place of the 301 with no issues - except as mentioned below.

Installer hooked the SW-21 up backwards - the 148 dish should be on port 2, not port 1. This might cause trouble with initial software download of the 811 - or not - YMMV. You should swap them - it's easy to do.

In addition, you've got an unused output on the Twin for 110/119. If the 148 dish has a Dual LNBF, then it also has an unused output. If so, just pick up another SW-21, wire it all together exactly like what you already have (with 148 on port 2 of the Sw-21), and you're good to go for the 301.

If your 148 dish only has a Single LNBF, you either replace it with a Dual, or just hook the 301 directly to the Twin for 110/119 only. But now the 301 won't get whatever you're uing 148 for - like maybe locals.

Don't forget to check that all your coax, dishes, and switches are properly grounded!

 

[sneoppy]

Many thanks for excellent details - I can see better now!
I still have a few followup questions if you have the time -
. My 148 dish apparently has only single LNBF :-( Does the Dual version look identical (with one unused port)?
. Is it possible my LNBF's are DishPro hereas the switch is legacy SW21? I am wondering as I have Dish500 dishes and cant see the inside of the LNBF's as its way up in the roof and I dont have a tall ladder!!
. I can't use DP34 with lagacy? Incase my LNBF turns out to be DishPro (can this be checked from the rcvr?) - can I replace the SW21 with DP34 (will it work with 2 inputs and 4 outputs)?
. One last dumb question - Why cant I split and amplify my only feed?

Thanks again!

 

[SimpleSimon]

Many thanks for excellent details - I can see better now!
I still have a few followup questions if you have the time -
Q1. My 148 dish apparently has only single LNBF :-( Does the Dual version look identical (with one unused port)?
Q2. Is it possible my LNBF's are DishPro hereas the switch is legacy SW21? I am wondering as I have Dish500 dishes and cant see the inside of the LNBF's as its way up in the roof and I dont have a tall ladder!!
Q3. I can't use DP34 with lagacy? Incase my LNBF turns out to be DishPro (can this be checked from the rcvr?) - can I replace the SW21 with DP34 (will it work with 2 inputs and 4 outputs)?
Q4. One last dumb question - Why cant I split and amplify my only feed?

Thanks again!

(added numbers to the questions)
A1: Yes, they look identical - only way to tell is to get up-close and personal with it. The only reason I know you have an unused port on the Twin is because they ALL had 2 ports. Actually, by distant eyeball, you can't tell the difference between a Twin and a Quad either - there's a slight chance you've got 3 unused outputs there - I didn't mention it because you only need one more, and I know you've got it.
A2: No. Not possible. See A4.
A3: No. Not possible. See A4.
A4. Because the receiver sends command up the cable to control what data is coming down from the LNBFs. That's why 'switches' and not 'combiners' are used. The receiver sends a command to the SW-21 to tell it which port to turn on, and then, if it's the one with the Twin, it sends a command to that to tell it 110 or 119 - AND even or odd transponders (which explains A2 ).

With DishPro, the even and odd transponders are sent at the same time - using twice as much bandwidth on the cable (which explains A3 ).

I'm simplifying the above a bit, but the point is the two systems are NOT compatible - although the E* 3-digit model number receivers are able to detect and use the Legacy or DishPro stuff as needed.

 

[sneoppy]

OK, I could dig up my 2 year old installation order - I do have the twin LNBF and the other one is a DUAL! So I can hookup another feed via another SW21 as you had suggested. I guess thats the most I can do given the hardware.

I am getting 3 2nd hand receivers 522DVR, 311 & 811 (I already have 301) from Ebay at a good price. However 522 & 311 does NOT have any smart card. Question -
1. Can the cards be purchased seperately?
2. Will 522 work with one input feed for recording and I will use the other (now that I will have two thanks to you!) for 811?

Thanks!

 

[SimpleSimon]

Nope - 522 requires 2 feeds or it will go bonkers. Note that you may have to go through hoops to get the 522 activated - the x22 boxes are supposed to be lease-only with very few exceptions.

As for the smartcards, some of these boxes have them builtin - even though there's still an external slot. I believe the 811 is like that, but someone else is going to have to answer about the others. I think E* will sell you a new card for like $50.

The biggest issue right now is that you're up to five tuners, and the basic setups can only deal with four, and you don't have the right gear for that.

The only single switch setup that can handle all 5 is a DPP44 ($200) with a DP Separator to run the 522. The DPP-Sep uses one port of the DPP44 but can drive both tuners of a dual tuner box. This leaves you 3 switch ports for the other 3 boxes. Trouble is you'll have to replace both of your LNBFs, too. That's gonna cost around another $200.

Another alternative is to put up another dish or 2 - depending on how important to you those channels on 148 are. It sucks, I know. I've got a 501 sitting here unused because I only have a Twin on my Dish 500 - and all I need to do is to replace it with a Quad because my 501 doesn't need to see the 148 bird that my 921 uses.

 

[sneoppy]

Thanks again for all the detailed explainations!
I was wondering since I have 4 outputs from the twin & dual LBNF's can I hookup a SW44 instead of 2 SW21's? If that works, I get 4 feeds?!

 

[SimpleSimon]

Unfortunately, no. Legacy switches require 2 feeds per satellite - one for the odd tps, the other for the even ones. To do what you're thinking about requries swapping out the Twin for a Quad and using a SW64.

The SW44 is basically used to convert an old Dish 500 with a pair of Dual LNBFs into what is effectively a Quad.

One of the original configurations for Dish 500 was a pair of Duals and a pair of SW21's which is then effectively the same as a Twin.

It seems a little strange that a SW21 only needs one feed per bird until you realize that there's only one receiver involved, which means it can do what it wants with the upstream LNBF. As soon as you have more than one receiver fighting over the LNBF, the switch has to have all possible feeds coming into it.