Question about recording HD locals?

[Trav]

I currently have Dish ATA 120 with the 522 receiver and a 36" CRT TV. I'm planning on getting a 50" HDTV some time this week that has a built-in HD tuner. At this time, I'm not really interesting in getting the Dish HD package because I don't watch the channels that are available in HDTV on Dish. But I certainly do want my locals in HDTV, so I'll be getting an OTA antenna.

So here's my question: I understand all I need to do to get OTA channels is hook the antenna up to the TV. But is there a way to record programs when I am gone? I assume I can't hook up the OTA antenna to my 522 and record from it (at least not in HD anyway, right)? So I would have to upgrade to a HDTV receiver and then plug the antenna into the receiver to record on it in HDTV??? What are my options for upgrading to a HDTV reciever if I am on the DHA plan?

Thanks.

 

[JohnDoe#2]

The DVR does not record from any outside source. Of course it will record locals in SD if you subscribe to them from DISH.

You can record your locals off-air the old-fashioned way (the way I do) with a VCR connected in series between the OTA antenna and the HDTV.

You can also get a DVR and/or DVD recorder from numorous manufacturers for recording off-air SD. Check out the ones from Panasonic and LiteOn It.

Finally, LG makes a off-air HD DVR.

 

[Trav]

Thanks for the reply. If I do decide to upgrade to a HDTV Dish receiver, will I then be able to record from the antenna if it is hooked up through the receiver? And will the program guide also be able to set timers and recordings for the OTA signal or not?

My main problem is that I'm at work during prime time TV, so I have to record most of my shows. If I have to use a VCR to record them, then I might as well not have HDTV at all! hehee.

 

[SimpleSimon]

If you get a 921 or 942, it can record DIGITAL OTA signals, but not analog. Note that is NOT the same distinction as SD vs. HD.

With the 921, setup, ability to receive and/or record varies WILDLY by location. While it has been getting better, it's far from perfect.

As for the 942, well, if you get it any time before 2024, you're just an alpha/beta tester. Oh - and the 942 will be discontinued as soon as they announce MPEG-4 support - later this year. Get the idea?

The 921 has already been discontinued.

 

[Trav]

How do I know if my local HD channels are analog or digital? And how would I know before getting the receiver if it will work with my OTA locals or not (or can I)? (scratching head)

Recording HD to DVR is almost a necessity for me since I work 2nd shift and rarely can watch the shows while they are airing. On the website, it shows the 921 can be purchased for $550 - do they have an option for leasing it instead? My 1 yr DHA is up in about 1 1/2 months, so I might have some bargaining power if they want me to stay with them... how should I proceed?

I'm certainly not willing to throw away $550 to find out that it doesn't work right with my HD locals through the antenna (recording, etc). And though I certainly wouldn't mind having the HD Pak channels, I really don't care as much about them as I do the HD locals.

How does D* compare in this area? Do they have an HDTV 2-tuner receiver than can record HD content from an OTA antenna? My only other option is digital cable and we have Mediacom in our area. Unfortunately, Mediacom does not have any info about HD on their website that I can find. I'll have to check into my options, thanks for the comments.

 

[snowcat]

The 942 HD DVR is scheduled to be released at the beginning of March, and it can be leased with a $250 initial fee (or you can buy it for $750).

When you get your new TV, hook up an antenna to its HD tuner. If you can receive digital signals on it, then you will be able to receive digital signals on the 921 or 942.

Unfortunately for you, if you do want to lease the 942, you will have to subscribe to the Dish HD pack.

Go to http://www.antennaweb.org to see what digital stations you can pick from your home and what type of antenna you will need.

 

[Trav]

The 942 HD DVR is scheduled to be released at the beginning of March, and it can be leased with a $250 initial fee (or you can buy it for $750).

Sounds like that will be the route I'll need to go, thanks for the advice. I still need to decide which TV I'm going to get though. The JVC HD52Z575 that I've been looking at has very nice picture quality, but does not have a built-in tuner. So if I got that one, I'd basically have NO high definition until I get a new receiver from Dish. The RCA HD50LPW162 is the other model I'm considering and it has a built-in tuner, but a good number of people on the boards have told me that they wouldn't trust RCA. I suppose I could buy a separate tuner for the JVC For $200-250, but that would certainly be a waste if I'm going to get a new Dish receiver some time in the near future. What to do?

 

[Carl B]

I'd stay away from RCA based on their forum reputation for reliability. I'd go with a unit that is DLP-based. Hold out for the built-in ATSC tuner, you won't regret it in the long term.

 

[BFG]

Mistsubishi makes a DLP TV with built in Tuner and DVR. Looks really nice, but I imagine it's expensive.

 

[old corps]

Sounds like that will be the route I'll need to go, thanks for the advice. I still need to decide which TV I'm going to get though. The JVC HD52Z575 that I've been looking at has very nice picture quality, but does not have a built-in tuner. So if I got that one, I'd basically have NO high definition until I get a new receiver from Dish. The RCA HD50LPW162 is the other model I'm considering and it has a built-in tuner, but a good number of people on the boards have told me that they wouldn't trust RCA. I suppose I could buy a separate tuner for the JVC For $200-250, but that would certainly be a waste if I'm going to get a new Dish receiver some time in the near future. What to do?

Trav-My 921 DOES record OTA HD (when they are broadcasting in HD, which is MOST prime time programming). It IS a bit of a PITA to set timers for it however, because you get no programming info from Dish. You can still do it but you have to set a timer for a satellite program that airs at the same time, THEN go back in and change the timer to the appropriate OTA channel. Like I said, it IS a PITA, but it DOES work. I have a US Digital OTA HD receiver that worked great for me but I turned around & bought the 921 two weeks later 'cause Dish dropped the price from$999. to $549. The 921 has been a little quirky at times but overall I'm satisfied with it. My US Digital is for sale, shipped anywhere in U.S. for $175. I paid $212. for it at Walmart. Hope this helps.
ED

 

[Trav]

Trav-My 921 DOES record OTA HD (when they are broadcasting in HD, which is MOST prime time programming). It IS a bit of a PITA to set timers for it however, because you get no programming info from Dish. You can still do it but you have to set a timer for a satellite program that airs at the same time, THEN go back in and change the timer to the appropriate OTA channel. Like I said, it IS a PITA, but it DOES work. I have a US Digital OTA HD receiver that worked great for me but I turned around & bought the 921 two weeks later 'cause Dish dropped the price from$999. to $549. The 921 has been a little quirky at times but overall I'm satisfied with it. My US Digital is for sale, shipped anywhere in U.S. for $175. I paid $212. for it at Walmart. Hope this helps.
ED

Thanks for replying, very helpful. A few followup questions if you don't mind:

1) So you can record from the OTA HD but you have to fiddle with the timer to get it set to the right OTA channel. Can you still set a recurring timer with an OTA channel so that it records an OTA HD channel once a week, for example? What I would want to do is set some timers for prime time shows I like that are in HDTV like "Lost" and "Desperate Housewives". So I could just set a Manual Timer and select the OTA channel, right?

2) I'm used to Dish's "quirky" receivers - I've been using the 522 since I signed on about 11 months ago. But it's a great receiver - I've just accepted that it's always going to have a few bugs. Anyway, it wouldn't make much sense to get the 921 now since the 942 is coming out in a couple of months and I could lease it for a $249 initial charge. I'm not sure I want to plop down any large sum of money on buying an HD receiver from Dish until we find out when the MPG4 changes are going to happen and how they are going to convert us all to it.

THanks again!

 

[BobaBird]

1) That's one way to do it. Another is to key in the channel, start, and stop times much as you would with a VCR from Menu, 7, Create. If you subscribe to local channels, that guide info will be copied over to your digital channels making that workaround unnecessary. Timers can be set for Once, Weekly, or M-F regardless of the way they were created.

2) The 942 is what the 921 should have been but I think they also should be holding production on it until MPEG4 is ready. We don't yet know if either receiver will have a better replacement offer when that time comes.

 

[wmhjr]

Just be careful...

My 921 also recorded OTA HD. Sometimes. When it didn't lock up. After I rebooted it. When the moons was in the ...... You get the picture. Some people have found the 921 to be a really great receiver. There are a LOT of other people who (along with me) believe it's a great big expensive and frustrating paperweight that must have been designed by a crack smoking psycho.

The 921 really worked well if you didn't need to use the OTA stuff. I've got to say that I was pretty unhappy with the SD PQ displayed on my HD DLP set, but the unit itself was OK. I think that was more related to heavy overcompression of the Dish feed. But, as soon as I started using the OTA functions, what a nightmare!

Trav-My 921 DOES record OTA HD (when they are broadcasting in HD, which is MOST prime time programming). It IS a bit of a PITA to set timers for it however, because you get no programming info from Dish. You can still do it but you have to set a timer for a satellite program that airs at the same time, THEN go back in and change the timer to the appropriate OTA channel. Like I said, it IS a PITA, but it DOES work. I have a US Digital OTA HD receiver that worked great for me but I turned around & bought the 921 two weeks later 'cause Dish dropped the price from$999. to $549. The 921 has been a little quirky at times but overall I'm satisfied with it. My US Digital is for sale, shipped anywhere in U.S. for $175. I paid $212. for it at Walmart. Hope this helps.
ED

 

[Trav]

My 921 also recorded OTA HD. Sometimes. When it didn't lock up. After I rebooted it. When the moons was in the ...... You get the picture. Some people have found the 921 to be a really great receiver. There are a LOT of other people who (along with me) believe it's a great big expensive and frustrating paperweight that must have been designed by a crack smoking psycho.

I know exactly what you mean. The problems on the 522 seems to be a lot of hit and miss as well. I'm sure the new 942 will be full of bugs and problems when it is first released too, though one might think it would function somewhat better than the 942 since they have more experience now. Of course, I know what ASSume spells, so.... :shocked

The 921 really worked well if you didn't need to use the OTA stuff. I've got to say that I was pretty unhappy with the SD PQ displayed on my HD DLP set, but the unit itself was OK. I think that was more related to heavy overcompression of the Dish feed. But, as soon as I started using the OTA functions, what a nightmare!

I'm not expecting the SD PQ on the new TV to look very good at all. I can already see the compression on my current 36" TV, so I know it'll be even worse on HDTV. I'm just hoping it's at least watchable. Are the HD channels heavily compressed too with just higher resolution, or do they actual look better in both respects? Does Digital Cable seem to do better in the PQ respect or do they have their own set of problems on HDTVs?

Thanks a bunch,
Travis

 

[HOT ROD#1]

Yes, The 522 Seems To Be A Difficult One.

 

[wmhjr]

Well, it's interesting.

I had both the 921 and Digital HD cable running at the same exact time, using the same type cables/connections, to the same exact Toshiba DLP HD 46" screen.

HD on the same exact channel seemed "slightly" better on cable than Dish, but not much difference. The strange thing is that I compared the Analog signal coming from cable for my non-HD locals, and the SD coming from Dish for my non-HD locals (since you can't get HD locals on Dish anyway) and the surprising thing was that on my HD set, the Analog signal from cable looked better than the SD from Dish! I REALLY didn't expect this.

The one thing I notice is that I get more pixilation from time to time via cable than from Dish. I'm working on that. Otherwise, I'm really enjoying cable a lot.

I know exactly what you mean. The problems on the 522 seems to be a lot of hit and miss as well. I'm sure the new 942 will be full of bugs and problems when it is first released too, though one might think it would function somewhat better than the 942 since they have more experience now. Of course, I know what ASSume spells, so.... :shocked



I'm not expecting the SD PQ on the new TV to look very good at all. I can already see the compression on my current 36" TV, so I know it'll be even worse on HDTV. I'm just hoping it's at least watchable. Are the HD channels heavily compressed too with just higher resolution, or do they actual look better in both respects? Does Digital Cable seem to do better in the PQ respect or do they have their own set of problems on HDTVs?

Thanks a bunch,
Travis

 

[Trav]

Ok, I got the RCA 50" DLP today and hooked up my 522 to it via S-Video. Though the SD quality is certainly not great, it's actually better than I expected it to be! The locals that I get through the Dish programming look the worst (the compression really stands out on the HDTV), but the rest of the channels actually look pretty decent. I'll certainly want to upgrade to HD in the future (possibly when the 942 comes out), but this is absolutely watchable right now.

I bought an indoor antenna for the HD locals, but I haven't been able to try it out when actual HD shows are on. Correct me if I'm wrong, but if the actual show is not being broadcast in HD, then the picture will only be 480 resolution even if the channel itself is digital, right? For example, when I press the INFO button on my HDTV's remote, it shows the resolution for the current channel. One particular channel shows 16:9 720p, but I know the show that is playing is not broadcast in HDTV. So what does that mean? Does it mean the channel is being broadcast in 720p but I'm not really seeing it because the show is not? I'm a little confused on how that works.

 

[SimpleSimon]

The source resolution/aspect ratio does not have to be the same as the transmission res/AR which also does not have to be the same as the receiver's output res/AR to the TV. Any point in the path can have a scaler.

 

[Trav]

The source resolution/aspect ratio does not have to be the same as the transmission res/AR which also does not have to be the same as the receiver's output res/AR to the TV. Any point in the path can have a scaler.

So I can't go by the information reported when I press the INFO button my HDTV remote to know what resolution the current show is in, right? For example, if I press INFO when viewing my local FOX HD channel, it shows 16:9 and 720p but the current show I'm watching is likely 480p unless it is an actual HD broadcast, right? Thanks for the reply.