Question about wind and digital KU signal

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Hermitman

Hermitman

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jul 2, 2006
420
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Limestone, Mi
Here's my 2 cents worth. The height of the mast will depend on the type of mount you're going to use. I've previously made a polar mount for a 40x30 Primestar dish and as with other polar mounts, the centerline of the dish is above the top of the mast. This would give you a couple of extra inches. However if you're going to use a H-H mount, the centerline of the antenna will be below the top of the mast. And depending on the brand of the mount, it could be several inches below the top of the mast. It might be easier to set the antenna on the ground at the approximate angle of the lowest satellite you're going to receive and then measure to the centerline of the dish. From there, you can figure what the minimum mast height required is base on the type of mount you want to use. Have fun.
 
linuxman

linuxman

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Pro
Jul 16, 2006
3,903
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North West of St. Louis, MO
Hi Hermitman,

The dish will be going on an SG2100 H-H motor, and you are correct, it will be hung a few inches lower than the top of the mast.

This is a picture of the mount. It is a Channel Master: Non pen roof mnt

I am thinking that 36" might do the trick, but might need to go up to 40".

I just haven't seen a picture of one of these dishes with an SG2100 and swung all the way over to a low point with this type of mount to get an idea of how far they swing.

Fred
 
gabshere

gabshere

SatelliteGuys Pro
Aug 20, 2006
3,720
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Rison , Arkansas
as long as nothing is blocking it shortest will be best up there

my dish ( the round prime*) doesn't drop that much , it does tilt it a little. So if you give it a foot more than half of your largest dish and make it 36" that should make it fit most all the dishes you have or want 30X40 , 40X44 or 1.2m
 
gabshere

gabshere

SatelliteGuys Pro
Aug 20, 2006
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Rison , Arkansas
got pictures in the dark lol It will take a minute to resize and upload (i'm on a dialup)

it was less than a 2" drop for 80 degree arc to west
 
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gabshere

gabshere

SatelliteGuys Pro
Aug 20, 2006
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Rison , Arkansas
ok here are some pictures in the dark. Drop is about 2" for a 80 degree turn
 

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linuxman

linuxman

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Pro
Jul 16, 2006
3,903
16
North West of St. Louis, MO
Thanks George,

That helps me a lot in my decision. 36" should be more than adequate even for a 1.2M if I should get one in the future.

This has been very helpful! :D

Thanks, Fred
 
linuxman

linuxman

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Pro
Jul 16, 2006
3,903
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North West of St. Louis, MO
Well, I got my SG2100 motor and 50MM oversized tube yesterday from Pete at PSB Satellite.

Thanks Pete!!!

It has been raining here for three days now.

I have been working on one of the Primestar 40x30" dishes that I got new last week. I have it painted flat black, and Rain Shield already applied. I have modified one of the non-penetrating roof mounts with a more industrial strength mast for the motor, and a little taller than the original plus better stabilizer supports. I have a weather-proof box hanging on the pole, and the ground in place.

I decided to go with a 3x4 multiswitch and the original P*star LNB for now, and feed that into a 4 port diseqc switch that I had forgotten I had. The guy that is going to help me run the coax is coming a little later, as soon as it quits raining. It is supposed to quit in another hour or so.

Probably won't get it finished set up until tomorrow morning. Then I can see if all this has helped solved my wind and KU signal problem. :D

I'll be sure and take pictures when it is all set up.

Fred
 
linuxman

linuxman

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Pro
Jul 16, 2006
3,903
16
North West of St. Louis, MO
Ok, I am going to need a little help here, so those of you who have done this, please chime in to answer the questions at the bottom.

I got the Primestar 84e up on the roof, and operational to a point. zip is 63369, 90.5 longitude, and 38.9 latitude. The motor elevation is at 38, and the elevation reading on the other side is 52. The actual dish reading with an inclinometer at the center of the dish reads 24. I think all that is set pretty acurately, and that is where the best signal comes in so far with some minor adjustments up and down.

I got locked in on G11 91 my TS bird, but the signal is pretty weak, I have tried to fine tune it as best I can. The SG2100 is working fine so far, and USALS is really easy though I miss being able to E-W fine tune. Maybe it isn't nescessary.

Here are some of the results so far.

Anik F1 a TP 4:2:2 which looks garbled on the screen but SQ of 28-32%
AMC 4 KUIL at SQ of 58-60% and 3ABN SQ 25-31%
G11 Test card is SQ 15%, and some TP's which don't come in at as ITC 26-30%
AMC 3 TipTV is at SQ 45-60% Patient 45-60% MTA 10-14%
SBS6 ONN is at 14-30%, earlier today it was at 70% don't know what happened.
AMC 6 TP's at SQ 44-47%, 26-30% 57-60% and GBN at 75-82%

Can't get anything on G10R or White Springs on IA7.

Also I have duplicate TP numbers on both V and H on AMC 3 and AMC 6 with the same content on both. None of the others are that way.

It seems to be switching polarity ok, so I am at a loss on that one.

Here is the setup. Coax from receiver to rec side on motor, out to receiver port on 4way diseqc switch, out on port1 of diseqc to rec1 on 3x4 multiswitch, V from lnb is on one side of 3x4 multiswitch, and H is on the other. This is the OEM P*star LNB.

Here are the questions:

1. In the antenna setup menu on the Pansat 3500 I am assuming the skew has no effect on this type of LNB. Is that correct?

2. I feel like it needs a skew of something. Can and should the LNB be skewed at the flange of the feedhorn? There is a scale there for adjustment. Should I try that?

3. From these numbers, does It look like I am tracking the arc ok? Do I need to adjust the whole assembly one way or another?

Please give me some pointers on what to do next. I am sure this dish can perform better than this, just needs something.

Thanks, Fred
 
linuxman

linuxman

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Pro
Jul 16, 2006
3,903
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North West of St. Louis, MO
DOH!!!!

I just read through this thread about setting up a Primestar dish and on the last page, I found this picture.

I am surprised I am getting any SQ. :D

I have looked at that scale, but not seen it, and and just assumed it was on zero. I'll bet that it is set just like in the picture. I will go up and adjust it after I get back from church today.

Will report back later. Fred
 
linuxman

linuxman

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Pro
Jul 16, 2006
3,903
16
North West of St. Louis, MO
Please help me out here!!

I got the LNB set to 0 degrees like it is supposed to be, and that eliminated the duplicate TP's and channels on AMC6 and AMC3, and have been able to peak some very nice signals. The mast is perfectly vertical.

Here is my problem currently:

I can get as much as 60% plus on G10R 11720 V, but I have to move the bottom of the dish up. That is the weakest TP on G10R.

I can get up into the mid 35-40% range on AMC6 12052 V . That seems to be the weakest signal on that bird.

If I set it up for G10R, I move the bottom down to get the highest peak signal.

If I move to AMC 6 with the dish set for max G10R, I get no signal on 12052. If I move the bottom up, I can get into the upper 30's.

If I set it for AMC6 12052, I get no signal on 11720 on G10R, and just a little signal on 11800 maybe 10%.

There is about a 5 or 6 degree up and down difference between them. If I try a compromise, I get very little signal on either of the weak TP's on G10R or AMC6.

I have tried moving the whole assembly one way or the other, and end up losing the signal on one or the other, and can't adjust it back in. I think I have it set pretty well on the mark as far as TS on G11. I maybe wrong about that. BTW, the test cards on G11 come in at around 60%

If I go to each of the two satellites as set up now with the signal at around 30 for 12052 on AMC 6, and change if from USALS to diseqc and go into the diseqc menu and nudge it one click East the signal will improve a about 5%. Go back to G10R and do the same on the strongest TP 11800, and move it EAST, the signal will improve about 5%, but nothing on 11720.

This is what I have in the setup on the Pansat for USALS. Longitude 90.5 W, and Latitude 38.9 N.

Zip is 63369.

Please tell me what I can do in this situation. Change USALS to 91.0 and give it a shot, or forget USALS and go to diseqc for everything.

BTW, SBS6 ONN is at 75%, and PBS on AMC3 is around 35%. I have had them higher today, but that is what they are right now.

Please help me with some suggestions or ideas.

Please help me out here. I have been on the roof all afternoon again, and am starting to get frustrated.

Thanks in advance,

Fred
 
PSB

PSB

On vacation
Nov 5, 2003
1
4
Sounds like the polar axis angle may be off slightly, I would split the difference between G10R and AMC-6 then go back to true south, drop the polar axis by about 2º, re-peak the declination on true south.

If this does not work try raising the polar axis by 2º and re-peak the declination on true south, if that does not help the pole mast maybe bent or bending?
 

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gabshere

gabshere

SatelliteGuys Pro
Aug 20, 2006
3,720
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Rison , Arkansas
Fred
sounds like you've been busy, i got the long & lat close to what you have 90.46 & 38.56 you can try those numbers or . if the pansat allows it use 1.2 and bump ( the setting east or west slightly (the coolsat with version 1.01 sw allows you to move slightly east or west. for fine tuning version 1.00 does allow movement but its larger incriments.) if you haven't tried other sats get a couple of signals from those also like T5 or sbs 6. but it sounds like your close ... your using the old primestar lnb right... is it the .07 ??

mine also grabs echoed channels (haven't heard of a reason. but i have the slightly larger dish and the stronger lnb ( which you might need to grab those weaker signals).

mine acts the same... polar axis was/is off, i can't correct it.( i got it close good signals on 12 sats but fell off both sides after that). will have to erect a new pole. but the signals i get are strong just can't get g10 or sbs 6
 
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linuxman

linuxman

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Pro
Jul 16, 2006
3,903
16
North West of St. Louis, MO
Thanks Pete,

I'll try your suggestion in the morning. You may be right about the polar axis, I never thought about trying that.

Hi George,

That's the thing, I get SBS6 ONN with 75% SQ.
I am getting AMC4 with good readings.
AMC3 with 45%
Anik F1 with good SQ

You are right, it is the LNB that came with the dish. I don't know what the specs are. It seems to work fine if I can get the arc dialed in good.

I tried setting the USALS to 90.8 in the Pansat menu, and that raised the quality on AMC6 and G10R by about 5%, so Pete may be right about the polar axis.

I'll get it, just may have to use USALS to get close, then switch to diseqc and fine tune all the sats in.

I may not have the center just perfect yet. These are very fine tuning movements here. Much smaller dish, and the movements have to be extremely small.

Thanks to both of you for your suggestions. I'll try them out in the morning.

Fred
 
gabshere

gabshere

SatelliteGuys Pro
Aug 20, 2006
3,720
21
Rison , Arkansas
well its easy to get frustrated ... i read all those post about people setting them up and bang its there and on arc and everything , mine didn't work like that lol but its my luck . i'm getting good at pointing a dish and fine tuning a motorized dish ( that probably had a ben pole ) lol lol
 
linuxman

linuxman

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Pro
Jul 16, 2006
3,903
16
North West of St. Louis, MO
I know just what you mean George.

I have never been that lucky either.

But on the brighter side, just look how much I am learning, and I haven't blown up a single switch this time. :D

When I get finished, I will know how to setup up a BUD and an SG2100. :D

Fred
 
linuxman

linuxman

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Pro
Jul 16, 2006
3,903
16
North West of St. Louis, MO
Finally!!!

I spent most of the day on the roof again, but at least from about 1:00 PM till 4:30 it was productive.

Pete, you were correct. The polar axis was off by about 12 degrees. Yes, I am not too proud to admit it, but somehow I got the latitude scale and the elevation scale confused in my mind. When I came down from the roof about noon, I did an advanced search using titles only and came up with this thread on SG2100 +elevation. Iceberg, you spelled it out, and it hit me like a hammer. How could I be so dumb?

Anyway, it is now set up and tracking the arc. Is it perfect yet? NO. Am I going to work on it tomorrow? Maybe. After 3 days, I am a little bit tired.

I reset my longitude in the Pansat antenna setup menu back to 90.5, and am again using USALS on almost all the sats I have scanned in so far.

I am quite pleased with the original LNB that came with the Primestar. Here are some of my SQ readings.

White Springs on IA7 at 129.0 West 60-65%
11720 on G10R Solid 60% with an occasional bump to 65%
Anik F1 TP 4:2:2 65-72%
AMC4 KUIL 74-77%
G11 my TS test card at 55-60%
AMC3 Montana PBS 48-55% bumped this one with diseqc to get this number.
SBS6 ONN 80-90%
AMC6 12052 35-40%
ECHO3 at 61.5 picked up a scrambled TP just to help me with further adjustments at 30%. I think this TP was actually from it's neighbor. It did not say Echostar along with it's Nagravision whereas the other TP's from there did. They were in th 80's range.
Could not pick up a TP on PAS9.

I think with further adjustment and peaking, I will improve the East side some. If I can get the East side as well as the West, I will be happy for a while. :D

Here are some picks. My paint job isn't as pretty as Pete's, and the blue striping is from Rain Shield.

Also take note of the rain visor I made from a spray paint can lid to replace the that was broke originally.

New pstar after setup2 New pstar motor mount Skew pstar lnb Pstar mount Wiring box Differing angles New pstar sg2100 motor Tools for setup

So to answer the question about wind and KU digital signal that I started this thread with, Mike Kohl was absolutely correct when he stated that a 30" solid dish would perform as well as my 10' BUD along with helping to cut down on the wind problem.

About 10:00 this morning the wind shifted and started blowing at 15-25 Mph from the South with gusts up to 40 Mph. It got a little hairy a time or two while I was up there working. I say all that to say that the above readings were all taken about 2 hours ago while the wind was blowing, and the only TP/channels I had any loss of signal with was the one on AMC 6 which is an over taxed TP anyway.

Also the Primestar LNB works fine. Just have to have someone know how to tune it in. :D Someone besides me.

Fred
 
PSB

PSB

On vacation
Nov 5, 2003
1
4
Nice to hear the story has a happy end thats the main thing, and some great pictures too!

Who cares what the dish looks like, you will have satellite TV during rain storms when others don't :)

Looking GREAT!
 
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