Random stupid questions

[jailbird]

All,

First off, excuse me for the random stupid questions that I should already know. I *think* I know the answers, but I'd feel better with some confirmations .

Background: Currently we have a Slimline 3LNB dish with 1 HR34 Genie, 2 HR24s, and 1ancient HR21. Since I'm a dork and have enterprise/telco-grade equipment, I live unsupported and run Ethernet to everything. I even went totally unsupported and use split VLANs and disabled multicast routing to keep the playlists of the "younger kids" and "bigger kids" (aka adults) separate in MRV. However, we just got a 4k TV and I called to swap the HR34 out with a HR54 and add a C61K. They refuse to drop-ship them to me, so I'm going to put everything back in a supported config (no Ethernet, just Coax, using BSFs between the SWM multiswitch outside and the splitters inside to keep the playlists split) for the installer, and then probably switch it back again after he leaves .

So now that THAT is over with.. the stupid questions:

- Am I going to need a new dish/LNB from the installer, or will the current Slimline 3LNB work?

- I know the HR21 requires an external DECA when using coax networking. Does it need a BSF between the DECA and the receiver, or does the DECA itself have an internal BSF? I'm assuming it has a filter.

- I assume the HR54 is like the HR34, in that it will need a BSF in order to prevent it from acting like a CCK by bridging coax and Ethernet?

- On the HR24s, I currently use a BSF to 'force' them to use Ethernet. Is this really needed on the HR24s, or are they smart enough to not use coax networking when Ethernet is plugged in?

- The C61K I assume doesn't really have a tuner (since it's a client), and that it just uses networking to talk to the HR54. Since they sadly didn't include an Ethernet port on the C61K, is there any reason why I couldn't just piggy-back a CCK or DECA III on the back of the C61K to "give" it Ethernet? That way I can plug it in anywhere in the house where I have networking but not coax.

- And the craziest for last: I know that the DECA III can be powered via USB or EPS10 power adapter. I read somewhere that the USB seems to only work when connected to a receiver. Is that true? If it is, does anybody have an EPS10 handy that they can read the 'INPUT' line on them to see if they are 120VAC only or if they accept 120VAC-240VAC? I can't find a decent close-up picture anywhere of a EPS10 to tell. My main server cabinet where my existing CCK is is mainly ran off a 240VAC UPS. Because the power adapter on the CCK is 120VAC-only, I had it and the GenieGo/Nomad on a smaller 120VAC UPS. Since the GenieGo/Nomad seems to be basically a doorstop now, I'd like to get rid of the 120VAC UPs if possible. I'm hoping either the EPS10 can take 240V, or if the DECA III will run off of any USB power, I can use an IEC C7 cable into an iPad charger to get USB power off of 240V!

Thanks all for the help and for dealing with the stupid!

 

[Zashel]

geez, have fun typing all that? lol. ok, here goes:

- Am I going to need a new dish/LNB from the installer, or will the current Slimline 3LNB work?

- Currently all 4k programming comes in off of the 99 CA/CB slots. however, your installer SHOULD be installing a 3RBLNB. with your current set up, you're actually just at the supported tuner limit (7 for genie, and 3x 2 tuner DVR). that also means you can rip out old/excess coax on the outside of your house if it bothers you, just make sure you know which cable to leave

- I know the HR21 requires an external DECA when using coax networking. Does it need a BSF between the DECA and the receiver, or does the DECA itself have an internal BSF? I'm assuming it has a filter.

the BSF is required to STOP the DECA frequencies from being transmitted. ergo its one or the other. if you NEED a deca, you dont need a BSF to block the MRV. since you are simply getting this set up so the tech doesnt freak out, i'd say dont bother moving the coax, just unplug the ethernet while he's there. if he asks about it, just tell him to leave it be.

- I assume the HR54 is like the HR34, in that it will need a BSF in order to prevent it from acting like a CCK by bridging coax and Ethernet?

that is correct. if you're keeping all of your OTHER receivers and simply adding the C61k on top of the genie at the same location, you go from the wall plate to a BSF , into a 2 way splitter, then coax into both receivers (this all being @ the 4k TV). this will keep the client from freaking out. if you're replacing one of the DVRs, you will have to identify the two TV locations of the genie/c61k, put those on a two way, into a BSF, and then to the main splitter but all of that will be at the main splitter. some people dont like to daisy chain splitters, but it sounds like in your case it cant be helped.

- On the HR24s, I currently use a BSF to 'force' them to use Ethernet. Is this really needed on the HR24s, or are they smart enough to not use coax networking when Ethernet is plugged in?

any thing H24+ or HR24+ will automatically use its internal deca. it will ALSO connect with the Ethernet at the same time. this causes it to have a freakin heart attack some times, so for your case, use the BSF.

- The C61K I assume doesn't really have a tuner (since it's a client), and that it just uses networking to talk to the HR54. Since they sadly didn't include an Ethernet port on the C61K, is there any reason why I couldn't just piggy-back a CCK or DECA III on the back of the C61K to "give" it Ethernet? That way I can plug it in anywhere in the house where I have networking but not coax.

so you're trying to use the deca in reverse? and then keeping it on the VLAN with the HR54? i think you're rolling the dice on this one. on paper i think it will work, but 1) no tech will touch that, 2) you may have connection issues. i would not attempt to use the CCK-W (i assume thats what you ment with CCK).

-EPS 10 stuff

the EPS10 Power supply is indeed 120VAC only. The USB part however is NOT picky about its power source, so long as it is constantly on. for example, dont use the USB on a TV because when the TV turns off, the power to the USB port does as well. however, something like a router or a D* receiver will work because it is constantly feeding power.

good luck!

 

[jailbird]

- Currently all 4k programming comes in off of the 99 CA/CB slots. however, your installer SHOULD be installing a 3RBLNB. with your current set up, you're actually just at the supported tuner limit (7 for genie, and 3x 2 tuner DVR). that also means you can rip out old/excess coax on the outside of your house if it bothers you, just make sure you know which cable to leave

He indeed installed the new LNB, removed the 2nd run from the old LNB to the SWM-16 that is mounted outside, and then completely removed and took the SWM-16 with him.

the BSF is required to STOP the DECA frequencies from being transmitted. ergo its one or the other. if you NEED a deca, you dont need a BSF to block the MRV. since you are simply getting this set up so the tech doesnt freak out, i'd say dont bother moving the coax, just unplug the ethernet while he's there. if he asks about it, just tell him to leave it be.

Makes sense, thanks!

any thing H24+ or HR24+ will automatically use its internal deca. it will ALSO connect with the Ethernet at the same time. this causes it to have a freakin heart attack some times, so for your case, use the BSF.

Awesome, I left the BSFs in!

so you're trying to use the deca in reverse? and then keeping it on the VLAN with the HR54? i think you're rolling the dice on this one. on paper i think it will work, but 1) no tech will touch that, 2) you may have connection issues. i would not attempt to use the CCK-W (i assume thats what you ment with CCK).

I didn't mean CCK-W, I meant the old CCK that I had laying around. I went ahead and used a newer DECA III (which seems to be pretty much an updated CCK). I ran the USB (for power) and the coax between the C61K to the DECA III, and Cat5e from the DECA to the GigE switch. I then removed the coax completely from the wall jack. This setup is actually working very well! While the box obviously can't do more than 100Mbps because of MoCA, the switch itself has 2xGigE connections upstream, so there's no worrying about congestion.

the EPS10 Power supply is indeed 120VAC only. The USB part however is NOT picky about its power source, so long as it is constantly on. for example, dont use the USB on a TV because when the TV turns off, the power to the USB port does as well. however, something like a router or a D* receiver will work because it is constantly feeding power.

Indeed! In my server rack I replaced my old CCK with a new DECA III and ran the USB from the DECA to my Juniper firewall, which 2 has USB ports for configuration backups and such. It seems to work awesomely. My thinking is if the firewall is down, then there's no Internet anyways!

Thanks for all of the pointers!

 

[Zashel]

keep us updated on the C61k setup, that sounds pretty cool. i figured it could work, just never did it. glad i could help.