Random thoughts at the start of the NFL Season

SabresRule

SatelliteGuys Master
Original poster
Apr 15, 2008
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Wisconsin
Season's underway, and I haven't done any Random Thoughts in a while, now's a great time!

1. It was nice to see a close Thursday night season opener after two consecutive years of blowouts (Colts over Saints, Giants over Redskins). No defending Super Bowl champ has lost their opener since 1999 (Denver, but Elway had retired prior to the season), winning 10 straight.

2. I have a gut feeling that people may be overrating USC heading into their game on Saturday. Yes, Ohio State struggled to beat Navy, but at least the Buckeyes played an actual opponent, whereas USC played a WAC creampuff (i.e. teams not named Boise State, Hawaii, or Fresno State). I'd like to see the Buckeyes win- I know HD wants a win so badly, plus it would finally shut up all the Big 10 media bashers/USC worshippers.

3. Michigan-Notre Dame, after being totally irrelevant for a few years, is actually shaping up to be a pretty meaningful game this year. I'm not jumping to conclusions, but it's nice to see at least one or both of these teams playing above-average football.

4. Salsa, I may not be picking the Raiders to beat San Diego in their opener, but I actually do like their chances against the Chiefs and Broncos. Honestly, I see Oakland going 4-2 in the division- sweeps of Kansas City and Denver, swept by the Chargers.

5. Speaking of HD and Salsa, I can't wait for when the Browns play the Raiders- their trash-talking will be something to watch, considering how their always-entertaining "LeBron or D-Wade" debates.

5. What does the C in SandraC stand for?

6. Last year, I completely trashed the ACC conference, poking at their boring play and woeful BCS record- what a difference a year makes. They finally got a BCS win, Miami-Florida State and Clemson-Georgia Tech were great games- this conference is looking pretty good. The ACC is not crappy anymore!

7. It's amazing how many different "Nations" there are in sports- I am long familiar with Red Sox Nation, Raider Nation, and Steeler Nation, but some of the other teams are just adding it on to make them sound cooler.

8. I will not be doing any avatar bets this year- I went 1-3 last year, and that one was only because of a great play by Michael Crabtree against Texas.

9. IMHO, these upcoming are going to be baseball playoffs are wide-open. There is no truly dominant team out there- I honestly feel that any of the teams that can make the playoffs can win it all. The only one that would really, really surprise me is the Rockies, but of the eight teams that would make the playoffs if the season ended right now, only one- the Dodgers- has not made a World Series appearance in this decade.

10. It's amazing that more attention is focused about the unretirements of Brett Favre than the legitimate retirements in sports this year (i.e. Tedy Bruschi, Joe Sakic, John Madden, Tony Dungy, Curt Schilling, Alonzo Mourning). It's a shame that Mourning, one of the classiest and most dignified men to ever play basketball, gets so little attention for calling it a career after some thought he wouldn't make it this far after his kidney problems, whereas anything and everything #4 does is a lead story.

11. Tomorrow, Michael Jordan will be inducted into the Pro Basketball Hall of Fame. Salsa covered this team during his time as a Chicago reporter- it's hard to believe that one of our very own was able to follow around the footsteps of a living legend during the Bulls' great run in the 1990s.

12. The rest of the inductees are no slouches themselves- Jerry Sloan, one of the NBA's great coaches (and arguably one of the best ever without a ring), John Stockton, the NBA's all-time leaders in assists and steals, and David Robinson, one of the game's great big-men and class acts.

13. Tomorrow, I am going to The Shops at North Ridge in Chicago. Alyssa Milano will be signing autographs and greeting fans- I am going to meet her! (Salsa, I'll check for any "skanky circles.")

14. Finally, this last one is something I've wanted to get off my chest for a while. KCK, I love your baseball knowledge, but I cannot agree with your thoughts about Alexander Ovechkin.

How can you call him cocky, arrogant, and spoiled, a prima donna, and say you don't like him as a human being? All he said was that after he plays here a long time (19-20 years), he would like to go back to his home country of Russia many years down the road. When he's done with his likely Hall of Fame Career, he'd like to play a bit back home before he calls a career. Somehow, because of that statement, you now view him like he's Terrell Owens. What's so bad about that? Jaromir Jagr went back to the Czech Republic after 18 years in the NHL, yet I don't recall him getting that treatment.

As for the other players you said you'd rather have over him- I'll give you Malkin and Crosby, I'll give you Getzlaf, even Toews. If you want to say you'd rather have those players, I'll give you that. But I cannot say with a straight face that I would have rather have Kopitar- he's had one 30-goal season and never scored more than 77 points. Also, Ovechkin's Capitals have evolved in a legit Stanley Cup threat, while Kopitar's Kings languish at the bottom of the Western Conference as a cellar-dweller. Kopitar has yet to lead his team in the playoffs, let along get there.

His so-called "self-centered" antics are entertaining. Hockey NEEDS excitement- the NBA braces this type of emotion, ditto for the NFL. It's a nice change of pace- I like hockey players with emotion that want to entertain. What's so bad about wanting to entertain the fans?
 
Season's underway, and I haven't done any Random Thoughts in a while, now's a great time!

1. It was nice to see a close Thursday night season opener after two consecutive years of blowouts (Colts over Saints, Giants over Redskins). No defending Super Bowl champ has lost their opener since 1999 (Denver, but Elway had retired prior to the season), winning 10 straight.

I must be the ONLY person that hates DEFENSIVE slugfest in the NFL. I thought the game was boring as hell.

4. Salsa, I may not be picking the Raiders to beat San Diego in their opener, but I actually do like their chances against the Chiefs and Broncos. Honestly, I see Oakland going 4-2 in the division- sweeps of Kansas City and Denver, swept by the Chargers.

No worries dude. You go with your gut feeling. I do not think San Diego is as good as previous years and I have never been very convinced in Norv Turner. I think this is the game we break the hex against the DOLTS...ah....Bolts....:D

5. Speaking of HD and Salsa, I can't wait for when the Browns play the Raiders- their trash-talking will be something to watch, considering how their always-entertaining "LeBron or D-Wade" debates.

You know, I have never trash talked for a game. I will make smartass remark here and possibly there...but never to the point of 'my team is gonna kick your teams a$$!' type of thing. Remember, we are talking about the Raiders here. As far as I am concerned, that is seriously a pick-em game. And with all things considered, if they both were to play mistake free football, I PERSONALLY think my Raiders have more talent, but they have the better coaching AND home field advantage(if I am not mistaken).

6. Last year, I completely trashed the ACC conference, poking at their boring play and woeful BCS record- what a difference a year makes. They finally got a BCS win, Miami-Florida State and Clemson-Georgia Tech were great games- this conference is looking pretty good. The ACC is not crappy anymore!

And next week, you have GT @ Miami...it get's better and better baby!

10. It's amazing that more attention is focused about the unretirements of Brett Favre than the legitimate retirements in sports this year (i.e. Tedy Bruschi, Joe Sakic, John Madden, Tony Dungy, Curt Schilling, Alonzo Mourning). It's a shame that Mourning, one of the classiest and most dignified men to ever play basketball, gets so little attention for calling it a career after some thought he wouldn't make it this far after his kidney problems, whereas anything and everything #4 does is a lead story.

And I tell you, I have never met ANYONE that gives back MORE to his community than this guy. He is OFF the court, the classiest professional athlete I have ever had the priviledge to be around!

11. Tomorrow, Michael Jordan will be inducted into the Pro Basketball Hall of Fame. Salsa covered this team during his time as a Chicago reporter- it's hard to believe that one of our very own was able to follow around the footsteps of a living legend during the Bulls' great run in the 1990s.

I was actually invited by my buddy who use to be the lead-in announcer for the Bulls broadcast to go, but because of commitments I made prior, I could not make the trip. He is THE GREATEST basketball player I have EVER seen and there will NEVER....EVER be anyone like him. When he FINALLY retired, she should have just waved the BS 5 year waiting period and just induct him in immediately!

13. Tomorrow, I am going to The Shops at North Ridge in Chicago. Alyssa Milano will be signing autographs and greeting fans- I am going to meet her! (Salsa, I'll check for any "skanky circles.")

You'll smell the skank factor from the parking lot. LOL!;)
 
1. It was nice to see a close Thursday night season opener after two consecutive years of blowouts (Colts over Saints, Giants over Redskins). No defending Super Bowl champ has lost their opener since 1999 (Denver, but Elway had retired prior to the season), winning 10 straight

Good game. Rob Birons is to be blamed for the Titans loss though.

2. I have a gut feeling that people may be overrating USC heading into their game on Saturday. Yes, Ohio State struggled to beat Navy, but at least the Buckeyes played an actual opponent, whereas USC played a WAC creampuff (i.e. teams not named Boise State, Hawaii, or Fresno State). I'd like to see the Buckeyes win- I know HD wants a win so badly, plus it would finally shut up all the Big 10 media bashers/USC worshippers.

I like the way you think! I also believe Tressel wasn't showing his whole bag of tricks against Navy. All I've heard all year was how Terrelle Pryor has vastly improved over the offseason. I hope Saturday is his coming out party!

3. Michigan-Notre Dame, after being totally irrelevant for a few years, is actually shaping up to be a pretty meaningful game this year. I'm not jumping to conclusions, but it's nice to see at least one or both of these teams playing above-average football.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. College Football is better when Michigan and Notre Dame are relevant.

5. Speaking of HD and Salsa, I can't wait for when the Browns play the Raiders- their trash-talking will be something to watch, considering how their always-entertaining "LeBron or D-Wade" debates.

I just hope the Browns will be playing for something come week 17.

5. What does the C in SandraC stand for?

Costanza? As in Sandra Costanza? That has a nice ring to it. (of course I'm just taking a guess there).

10. It's amazing that more attention is focused about the unretirements of Brett Favre than the legitimate retirements in sports this year (i.e. Tedy Bruschi, Joe Sakic, John Madden, Tony Dungy, Curt Schilling, Alonzo Mourning). It's a shame that Mourning, one of the classiest and most dignified men to ever play basketball, gets so little attention for calling it a career after some thought he wouldn't make it this far after his kidney problems, whereas anything and everything #4 does is a lead story.

Good point. :up

11. Tomorrow, Michael Jordan will be inducted into the Pro Basketball Hall of Fame. Salsa covered this team during his time as a Chicago reporter- it's hard to believe that one of our very own was able to follow around the footsteps of a living legend during the Bulls' great run in the 1990s.

I was at the bar last night and ESPN Classic was showing some vintage Jordan games while in college between UNC vs. Duke. What a talent!

12. The rest of the inductees are no slouches themselves- Jerry Sloan, one of the NBA's great coaches (and arguably one of the best ever without a ring), John Stockton, the NBA's all-time leaders in assists and steals, and David Robinson, one of the game's great big-men and class acts.

Great class indeed!

13. Tomorrow, I am going to The Shops at North Ridge in Chicago. Alyssa Milano will be signing autographs and greeting fans- I am going to meet her! (Salsa, I'll check for any "skanky circles.")

Awesome! Tell Samantha Micelli I said hi.

14. Finally, this last one is something I've wanted to get off my chest for a while. KCK, I love your baseball knowledge, but I cannot agree with your thoughts about Alexander Ovechkin.

Mr. KCK also said my Cleveland Indians should be "contracted from the league". I won't be forgetting that ludicrous statement anytime soon either.
 
1. It was nice to see a close Thursday night season opener after two consecutive years of blowouts (Colts over Saints, Giants over Redskins). No defending Super Bowl champ has lost their opener since 1999 (Denver, but Elway had retired prior to the season), winning 10 straight.

Finally a good opening game and I missed it! We went out for a late dinner, and the TV did not go on when we came home. ;)

2. I have a gut feeling that people may be overrating USC heading into their game on Saturday. Yes, Ohio State struggled to beat Navy, but at least the Buckeyes played an actual opponent, whereas USC played a WAC creampuff (i.e. teams not named Boise State, Hawaii, or Fresno State). I'd like to see the Buckeyes win- I know HD wants a win so badly, plus it would finally shut up all the Big 10 media bashers/USC worshippers.

Up until three years ago I expected the best when the Buckeyes played a national out of conference powerhouse. Now I expect the worst. Anything above implosion will be a pleasant surprise.

3. Michigan-Notre Dame, after being totally irrelevant for a few years, is actually shaping up to be a pretty meaningful game this year. I'm not jumping to conclusions, but it's nice to see at least one or both of these teams playing above-average football.

I'm going to hold off on calling either one relevant just yet. Obviously one of them will win this game and go 2-0, but I don't think either will be a factor on the national stage.

4. Salsa, I may not be picking the Raiders to beat San Diego in their opener, but I actually do like their chances against the Chiefs and Broncos. Honestly, I see Oakland going 4-2 in the division- sweeps of Kansas City and Denver, swept by the Chargers.

The AFC West is terrible. Shaping up to be San Diego and the three Patsies.

5. Speaking of HD and Salsa, I can't wait for when the Browns play the Raiders- their trash-talking will be something to watch, considering how their always-entertaining "LeBron or D-Wade" debates.

Why two number fives? It's like New York, New York...the city so nice they named it twice!

5. What does the C in SandraC stand for?

My long Italian last name. Remember when dbsforums made us all change our names for some reason? And it had to be your name, not a clever handle? I was Sandra, then I had to change it. My initial may be changing eventually...I really like this guy!

6. Last year, I completely trashed the ACC conference, poking at their boring play and woeful BCS record- what a difference a year makes. They finally got a BCS win, Miami-Florida State and Clemson-Georgia Tech were great games- this conference is looking pretty good. The ACC is not crappy anymore!

Not crappy at all, but like Michigan and Notre Dame not quite ready to challenge for the national championship either.

7. It's amazing how many different "Nations" there are in sports- I am long familiar with Red Sox Nation, Raider Nation, and Steeler Nation, but some of the other teams are just adding it on to make them sound cooler.

Just a silly marketing tool. Yankee Universe is silly too. The Yankees did quite nicely for the last 90 years not being a universe, they don't need to morph into one now.

9. IMHO, these upcoming are going to be baseball playoffs are wide-open. There is no truly dominant team out there- I honestly feel that any of the teams that can make the playoffs can win it all. The only one that would really, really surprise me is the Rockies, but of the eight teams that would make the playoffs if the season ended right now, only one- the Dodgers- has not made a World Series appearance in this decade.

The first round being five games is what makes the post-season so wide open. Anything can happen in such a short series. After that form usually holds.

10. It's amazing that more attention is focused about the unretirements of Brett Favre than the legitimate retirements in sports this year (i.e. Tedy Bruschi, Joe Sakic, John Madden, Tony Dungy, Curt Schilling, Alonzo Mourning). It's a shame that Mourning, one of the classiest and most dignified men to ever play basketball, gets so little attention for calling it a career after some thought he wouldn't make it this far after his kidney problems, whereas anything and everything #4 does is a lead story.

Brett Favre is the Roger Clemens of football. For Brett it's all about Brett, all the time. He's constantly polishing his legacy, just like Clemens did. One of the most self-absorbed athletes on the planet. Hey Brett, you're a good QB now but not a superstar anymore. Deal with it.

11. Tomorrow, Michael Jordan will be inducted into the Pro Basketball Hall of Fame. Salsa covered this team during his time as a Chicago reporter- it's hard to believe that one of our very own was able to follow around the footsteps of a living legend during the Bulls' great run in the 1990s.

Wow, I didn't even know that. The Hall of Fame does their inductions in early September???


Sandra
 
1. It was nice to see a close Thursday night season opener after two consecutive years of blowouts (Colts over Saints, Giants over Redskins). No defending Super Bowl champ has lost their opener since 1999 (Denver, but Elway had retired prior to the season), winning 10 straight.

I would've preferred it not be as close as it was. ;)

2. I have a gut feeling that people may be overrating USC heading into their game on Saturday. Yes, Ohio State struggled to beat Navy, but at least the Buckeyes played an actual opponent, whereas USC played a WAC creampuff (i.e. teams not named Boise State, Hawaii, or Fresno State). I'd like to see the Buckeyes win- I know HD wants a win so badly, plus it would finally shut up all the Big 10 media bashers/USC worshippers.
I would like to see a Buckeye win as well. It's time for my Ohio neighbors to have a win they can sink their teeth into (the sulleness is getting on my nerves around here).

3. Michigan-Notre Dame, after being totally irrelevant for a few years, is actually shaping up to be a pretty meaningful game this year. I'm not jumping to conclusions, but it's nice to see at least one or both of these teams playing above-average football.
I'd like to see a big win by Michigan. There's a good chance a friend of mine may invite me to the big rivalry this year. :)

4. Salsa, I may not be picking the Raiders to beat San Diego in their opener, but I actually do like their chances against the Chiefs and Broncos. Honestly, I see Oakland going 4-2 in the division- sweeps of Kansas City and Denver, swept by the Chargers.
What do you think the odds are that the winner of this division has a losing record?

5. What does the C in SandraC stand for?
LOL!

6. Last year, I completely trashed the ACC conference, poking at their boring play and woeful BCS record- what a difference a year makes. They finally got a BCS win, Miami-Florida State and Clemson-Georgia Tech were great games- this conference is looking pretty good. The ACC is not crappy anymore!
A little early for this analysis.

7. It's amazing how many different "Nations" there are in sports- I am long familiar with Red Sox Nation, Raider Nation, and Steeler Nation, but some of the other teams are just adding it on to make them sound cooler.
Bamanation and Rebelnation sound more like contradictions to me. ;)

8. I will not be doing any avatar bets this year- I went 1-3 last year, and that one was only because of a great play by Michael Crabtree against Texas.
Maybe if you support a different team this year the results will improve.

9. IMHO, these upcoming are going to be baseball playoffs are wide-open. There is no truly dominant team out there- I honestly feel that any of the teams that can make the playoffs can win it all. The only one that would really, really surprise me is the Rockies, but of the eight teams that would make the playoffs if the season ended right now, only one- the Dodgers- has not made a World Series appearance in this decade.
The only one I care to see win it is the Rockies.

10. It's amazing that more attention is focused about the unretirements of Brett Favre than the legitimate retirements in sports this year (i.e. Tedy Bruschi, Joe Sakic, John Madden, Tony Dungy, Curt Schilling, Alonzo Mourning). It's a shame that Mourning, one of the classiest and most dignified men to ever play basketball, gets so little attention for calling it a career after some thought he wouldn't make it this far after his kidney problems, whereas anything and everything #4 does is a lead story.
Great post Sabres. I agree 100%.

11. Tomorrow, Michael Jordan will be inducted into the Pro Basketball Hall of Fame. Salsa covered this team during his time as a Chicago reporter- it's hard to believe that one of our very own was able to follow around the footsteps of a living legend during the Bulls' great run in the 1990s.
Did he have his pooper scooper? ;) How many years do you have to be retired to be inducted into the NBA HOF? I would've thought Jordan was already in.

13. Tomorrow, I am going to The Shops at North Ridge in Chicago. Alyssa Milano will be signing autographs and greeting fans- I am going to meet her! ...
We'll expect pictures. :)
 
...
What do you think the odds are that the winner of this division has a losing record?

LOL!
...
Pretty low. The Bolts get 6 wins just for playing in the division. All they need is two wins against the rest of the league. I'd say wins against the Dolphins and Bengals at home would do it, and I think they'll beat the Eagles and Redskins at home too. 10-6 or 11-5.
 
Pretty low. The Bolts get 6 wins just for playing in the division. All they need is two wins against the rest of the league. I'd say wins against the Dolphins and Bengals at home would do it, and I think they'll beat the Eagles and Redskins at home too. 10-6 or 11-5.
MD, What's the word on Bradford? That's too bad he went down. Takes away from the entire season if you ask me.
 
MD, What's the word on Bradford? That's too bad he went down. Takes away from the entire season if you ask me.
Still up in the air. Most of the air has gone out of our sails for this year. It's not just Bradford, it's the new o-line, the tight end out for the year, ineffective receivers, questionable secondary, ...

I see losses against Miami, Texas, Kansas, OK-State, and maybe Nebraska.

Poor Sam Bradford, he could have been the #1 pick in the draft. If his stats aren't so good this year, he'll take a big money hit. But at least he won't be going to the Lions. :D
 
Still up in the air. Most of the air has gone out of our sails for this year. It's not just Bradford, it's the new o-line, the tight end out for the year, ineffective receivers, questionable secondary, ...

I see losses against Miami, Texas, Kansas, OK-State, and maybe Nebraska.

Poor Sam Bradford, he could have been the #1 pick in the draft. If his stats aren't so good this year, he'll take a big money hit. But at least he won't be going to the Lions. :D

Oh well, the bad years make you relish the good years that much more. Stoops will have them back pretty quick I imagine. :)
 
Still up in the air. Most of the air has gone out of our sails for this year. It's not just Bradford, it's the new o-line, the tight end out for the year, ineffective receivers, questionable secondary, ...

I see losses against Miami, Texas, Kansas, OK-State, and maybe Nebraska.

Poor Sam Bradford, he could have been the #1 pick in the draft. If his stats aren't so good this year, he'll take a big money hit. But at least he won't be going to the Lions. :D

If Bradford does drop in the draft, it may be a blessing in disguise. Instead of going to an awful team with one of the first few selections, he'll be going to a more established team and will have a better chance at being successful.
 
1. It was nice to see a close Thursday night season opener after two consecutive years of blowouts (Colts over Saints, Giants over Redskins). No defending Super Bowl champ has lost their opener since 1999 (Denver, but Elway had retired prior to the season), winning 10 straight.

This wasn't a well played game by either team, Pittsburgh just made better plays in OT. Add in that both teams suffered key player injuries( especially Polamalu) and this is not a good start for either.

2. I have a gut feeling that people may be overrating USC heading into their game on Saturday. Yes, Ohio State struggled to beat Navy, but at least the Buckeyes played an actual opponent, whereas USC played a WAC creampuff (i.e. teams not named Boise State, Hawaii, or Fresno State). I'd like to see the Buckeyes win- I know HD wants a win so badly, plus it would finally shut up all the Big 10 media bashers/USC worshippers.

Until the Buckeyes...and the Big 10 as a whole...figure out how to play against teams with speed call me unconvinced.
Sidenote: The WAC other than Boise State looks to be horrid this year.


4. Salsa, I may not be picking the Raiders to beat San Diego in their opener, but I actually do like their chances against the Chiefs and Broncos. Honestly, I see Oakland going 4-2 in the division- sweeps of Kansas City and Denver, swept by the Chargers.

As bad as the Broncos and Chiefs are they are better than the Raiders(not by much, but still better). 2-4 in the division for the Raiders is about what I expect, 4-2 is dreaming.

5. What does the C in SandraC stand for?

You know they have stalking laws on the Internet. :D

6. Last year, I completely trashed the ACC conference, poking at their boring play and woeful BCS record- what a difference a year makes. They finally got a BCS win, Miami-Florida State and Clemson-Georgia Tech were great games- this conference is looking pretty good. The ACC is not crappy anymore!

Lets see what happens when they play quality teams out of conference before we jump to conclusions on the ACC.

9. IMHO, these upcoming are going to be baseball playoffs are wide-open. There is no truly dominant team out there- I honestly feel that any of the teams that can make the playoffs can win it all. The only one that would really, really surprise me is the Rockies, but of the eight teams that would make the playoffs if the season ended right now, only one- the Dodgers- has not made a World Series appearance in this decade.

I bet the execs at MLB and FOX are jumping for joy of a possible Angels/Rockies World Series. :D

13. Tomorrow, I am going to The Shops at North Ridge in Chicago. Alyssa Milano will be signing autographs and greeting fans- I am going to meet her! (Salsa, I'll check for any "skanky circles.")

Aren't you a bit old to still be a Hollywood ogler. :shocked :D
 
Debating levels of suck in the AFC West is pretty futile, its like gauging who has the worse fart because one person had broccoli the night before, in the end they all stink.

That being said, of the 3 losers the Chiefs probably have the better defense with Namndi nursing his gimp wrist. If he is limited by that all year (unlikely but hasnt been ruled out?) that's potentially an extra loss or two, he's that big of a difference. Chiefs don't have that kind of secondary threat unless Mike Brown shows up but the unit has played pretty well overall. Both the Chiefs and the Raiders lack a good NT to support their system and the Broncos trail both teams with their aging veterans IMO.

It's a wash though, at best the teams in the AFC West can hope to just fend off a strong Chargers team and split the rest of the games in the division which usually the norm with few exceptions.
 
1 - You know, what an advantage playing in the Thu first game is. Nobody that actually matters plays in exhibiton week 4, so the two teams come in very fresh (unlike any other Thu where it is a short week) and then get 10 days to rest up and make serious roster decisions.

2 - I'm not sold on OSU.

3 - This is why I hate UND. They are probably the 50th best team, but until they lose, and with their cupcake schedule that will be a while, we have to put up with all the hype.

5 - Good luck Sandra. Whoever he is, he is a lucky person.

6 - Never was.

7 - Latest fad. Every team has a *nation board and so on.
 

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