Recent DISH installation possibly causing internet outages??

[CKdoubleU]

I'm having significant issues with my Linksys router timing out, and need help. I'll try to be as detailed as I can.

I have the following:
- Linksys WRT54G v3 wireless router I purchased off eBay 3-4 years ago. Using 128-bit WEP secirity. Even though the model says WRT54G, my Linksys setup page says I have a WRT54GL. Don't know if that's pertinent but thought I'd include the info)
- HP desktop running Vista Home Premium
- Gateway Solo laptop (circa 3Q 2002) running WinXP SP3, and also have WPC54G - Wireless-G Notebook Adapter
- Gateway M275 Notebook running Windows XP Tablet Edition w/SP3, internal wireless card
- Linksys WRE54G Wireless Range Expander, v3

My broadband internet connects to my cable modem, which then runs via ethernet to my router. I have my desktop connected to my router via (wired) ethernet cable (port 1), and the two laptops connect wirelessly. All three computers on my network run just fine and have had no connection issues until I had two (2) DISH satellite receivers installed this past Friday (VIP722 and VIP222 - the VIP222 was installed by mistake, and shoud've been another VIP722).

Prior to installation, I knew I would need the two receivers hooked up to my network via ethernet cable. Since one receiver was in the same room as my router, it was easy to run an ethernet cable from my router to the receiver (port 2). I had a challenge with the upstairs receiver, because I didn't have a direct connection, and wasn't sure how to wire it. So, I used my range expander by plugging in the expander into a nearby outlet, then connecting the receiver to the expander via ethernet cable.

I had some issues getting a good signal, and did some troubleshooting but made it work. Now I had five devices connected to my router: two with a wired ethernet cable and three wirelessly.

I started having connection timeouts within about 3-4 hours of satellite [receiver] installation. All of the sudden I couldn't connect to the internet on ANY device; both laptops couldn't connect wirelessly, my desktop couldn't connect, and the receivers were telling me my connection was bad. I checked modem but there were no issues. Still, I unplugged the power cable from the modem for a minute, then reconnected - still no internet. I called my cable company to have them troubleshoot the modem, but they pinged it several times & got positive results - still no internet, so I ruled the modem out.

I tried using the Windows connection troubleshooter to repair the problem, and got a DNS error message (which I don't know how to fix). I decided to unplug my router for 10-15 seconds, then plug back in - that got my internet connection going again. That lasted a couple hours & then failed. I unplugged the router again (is that a soft reset or a power cycle?), then reconnected & was able to connect to the internet. This happened a few more times over the weekend, and finally I decided the expander might be the issue (both DISH and Linksys tech support was not very helpful).

I found a way to wire my second receiver via ethernet cable (port 3), so now I had three wired devices, and two wireless devices. I thought this would fix the problem; it didn't, but at least I learned how to wire CAT5 cable. So I got that going for me... which is nice.

I plugged the ethernet cable directly from my modem to my desktop to test the timeout, but had no issues - the modem just wasn't the problem.

I was getting some IP address conflicts on my Norton Inernet Security, so I uninstalled that from my desktop, disconnected the power from the modem, disconnected the power from the router, shut down all devices, reset the IP addresses on the receivers, deleted the wireless connection from the laptops, shut down the desktop, and just left the whole mess alone for half a day. Then I reinstalled the Norton Internet Security, connected my wired devices, plugged the modem in, plugged the router in, reset my security, connected wirelessly with my laptops.

Within an hour my connection timed out.

Trying to chat with tech support wasn't feasible, as my connection kept going out. A guy at work said I should ping my IP address, and let it repeat until my connection goes out. So I unplugged the router and plugged it back in to get an internet connection, the opened a cmd prompt and typed
ping 192.168.1.1 -t

I left it alone for a few hours, and when I came back, my internet connection was down, but I was still getting active pings - no problems there.

At this point I thought I had done everything except replacing my router (which I'm still tempted to do), but I called my broadband provider to see if there was anything they could do. One of the techs said I had too many devices connected to the internet, but I thought these routers were supposed to handle dozens of devices?

I finally called Linksys Tech Support and had a conversation for 90 minutes. We went through all the steps of unplugging the the modem, router & all connected devices, resetting the router, etc, etc. The only thing different he did was had me change my security from WPA to 64-bit WEP, and added passwords for DNA1 and DNS 2 (same password for each).

That was at 1:30am last night, and when I woke up to check my connection this morning, it was still connected. I have to check it again when I get home, but I'm wondering if I should just be prepared to get another router (and if so, any recommendations), or if there's something I'm still not doing that could resolve my issue - if I still have connection losses.

Also, I'm concerned about the security thing. If changing from WEP 128 or WPA to WEP 64 fixed my problem, I'm not sure I feel completely protected from intrusion - isn't that pretty much the least amount of security I can have (without forgoing it altogether)??

Finally, I've read a few threads suggesting possibly changing to static IP from DHCP; however, the receiver installation documentation specifically advises against this for the receivers. The Linksys tech said it was probably my receivers which were causing the problem, but I don't think this is the case. It's just another wired connection; it shouldn't be a problem.

Sorry for the LONG post, but like I said I want to be detailed. I would very much appreciate some help.

 

[Agonizing Fury]

If you're getting IP address conflicts something on your network isn't playing nice with DHCP. make sure all of your other devices (laptops/computers) are set to get an address via DHCP. it sounds like one of the devices has a static IP programmed into it and the router is trying to assign that address to another device, so the IPs are colliding.
Baring that, make sure your modem is hooked up to the WAN port on your lynksys. got my cables mixed up once when plugging/unplugging things and was getting those errors as both my router and modem were handing out IPs, and they would interfere with eachother.
If it's still not working unplug/shutdown every device on your network. Then start by plugging in modem, once it's up and running, plug in the router. Then start one device at a time adding each other device in. Check the "Device List" under "Status" on your router. You should see an entry for each device. If one is missing that is your trouble maker, because it is not requesting it's IP from the router.
Make sure none of the computers have internet connection sharing turned on as this can activate a DHCP server on the computer in question and cause IP conflicts as well.
Still having problems? post the results of the things I had you try (esp device list if you can copy and paste it) and I'll see if there is anything else I can help with.

 

[Hall]

Sometimes you can give too much information....

My WAG is did the satellite installer re-use or "share" any coaxial wiring between the cable internet and the satellite receivers ?

 

[rcdallas]

Little too much info.

Let me ask you this, is your sat line and cable modem line on a diplexer?

 

[oldford]

Couldn't take the time to read your entire post, but I remember having the same type of problems once with Roadrunner. At the time they would only provide 5 dynamic IP addresses to each modem. Sounds like your equipment may be asking for more than that. It would be worth finding out if there is a limit from your ISP.

Regards, eric

 

[WiCkeDuDe]

I would agree that something with your dhcp settings is not correct. On the security side, WEP is easily cracked if anyone wanted to and its not much good. Your much better off to use WPA +TKIP or WPA2+ AES if your devices support it.

 

[Hall]

Since the desktop is having trouble connecting, I'd like to know a good reason from the Linksys person for changing from WAP to WEP. They won't have one, but.....

At this point, turn the laptops off and disconnect the Dish receivers, but leave your desktop connected. Reboot or unplug then replug your cable modem. Now, on the back of the router is a reset "pinhole". Take something small and push and hold the small button inside that pinhole for 5-10 seconds then release it. This will wipe all of your settings and start the router's setup fresh. By default, typing cPanel® into your browser's address bar should get you back into the settings. You may or may not have internet yet, but that's okay. Once in the setup, configure it for DHCP on the WAN side as this is what 99% of cable users use. Once you save/apply that, it should connect to the internet. See if it does. Find the "Status" page that shows you what devices are connected and assigned an IP address. Your desktop should be listed and odds are it's been assigned 192.168.1.101. Now connect just (1) of your Dish receivers, go back to the same status page, and see if it shows up and what IP it gets. Keep doing this (1) device at a time.

 

[oldford]

Couldn't take the time to read your entire post, but I remember having the same type of problems once with Roadrunner. At the time they would only provide 5 dynamic IP addresses to each modem. Sounds like your equipment may be asking for more than that. It would be worth finding out if there is a limit from your ISP.

Regards, eric

This was a good idea, but not in this case. The router should assign IPs as needed. I was using a hub at the time I had the issue.

E

 

[boomerang]

There's a lot of analysis going on here, but I would start back at the beginning. You had a fully functional setup until the addition of two DISH receivers.

Put the system back as it was prior to their arrival. Including the encryption level. Use everything as you had been for a day or so, to prove out that all is OK with the equipment you have. Then, add one receiver at a time hard-wired again waiting a day or so to make sure everything is stable. One of the DISH receivers is your problem child IMO. You'll figure out which one through this method.

 

[CKdoubleU]

Thanks for all the suggestions; I really appreciate the help. You're right - I had way too much info.
Here's what's happened since I last posted.

The internet connection went down again; what I saw as a fix was actually a fluke. I called Linksys back and they had me clone my PC's MAC (after going through the whole hard reset process). I also re-set the receivers' IP addresses, and changed the security from 64-bit WEP to WPA personal +TKIP. As a result, I went an entire day with no outages of any kind, so I inputted all my device's MAC addresses in my router allow list, and still no outages.

Thoughts?

Thanks again,
Chris

 

[boomerang]

Sounds like you're all set. Wait it out and see what happens.

Routers are just computers. They sometimes get confused and have to be reset just as a computer needs to be rebooted. After your first reset, the need to clone your MAC address may have been your problem.

Did you know that you can export a configuration file on your Router? You can save all your settings in case of problems like you just had. Save the file to a hard wired computer, not wireless. If you have to reset for whatever reason in the future, you can enter the configuration screens of your Router and just import that file.

 

[Hall]

I called Linksys back and they had me clone my PC's MAC...

Not necessary... It worked before so why would cloning it be needed ? Only time I've seen cloning necessary is when the cable modem gets "fixed" to the original MAC address it was initially configured with and someone gets a new PC or replaces their network card and therefore has a new and unknown MAC address.

 

[CKdoubleU]

Not necessary... It worked before so why would cloning it be needed ? Only time I've seen cloning necessary is when the cable modem gets "fixed" to the original MAC address it was initially configured with and someone gets a new PC or replaces their network card and therefore has a new and unknown MAC address.

OK, well that might make sense, because a few months back I got a new PC. When I was setting up, I left the modem & router alone, and just connected the ethernet cable to the new machine. Since I didn't have any issues at that time, I assumed everything worked properly.

Is there a way to determine if my cable modem is "fixed" to the original MAC address?

Part of me just wants to leave the whole thing alone (since it's still working), but part of me would like to understand how it works so I can try to manage these issues myself.

Thanks to everyone for your suggestions and guidance.

 

[Hall]

Was everything working properly the day before you connected the Dish receivers ?

 

[CKdoubleU]

Was everything working properly the day before you connected the Dish receivers ?

If by properly you mean that I had an uninterrupted internet connection on both my wired desktop and my two wireless laptops, then yes.

But if by properly you mean that all devices were configured correctly, then I don't know.

 

[Hall]

Okay then, prior to adding the Dish receivers, it all worked just fine. You added the Dish receivers and things "broke". First thing to look at is "what is different now ?". I will presume your desktop, laptops, and routers didn't change (on their own).....

But if by properly you mean that all devices were configured correctly, then I don't know.

You said they worked. To me, that means they're configured correctly. If you're doubting if they were correct or not, you're just confusing the issue.

 

[shorrock]

Have you checked your maximum IP limit?
Lots of linksys routers have a default of three IP's on the DHCP setup. If you have assigned two static IP's , then the router may not have enough numbers to doll out to all the devices requesting.

Also, make sure that your subnets and DNS servers are configured correctly. On windows machines, you must manually enter DNS/WINS/Gateway info when you turn off DHCP, so while your connections look fine on your side of the router, nothing can get out, since the PC knows no address to resolve anything outisde of your 192.*.*.* space.

Tom

 

[DishSatUser]

Also, I'm concerned about the security thing. If changing from WEP 128 or WPA to WEP 64 fixed my problem, I'm not sure I feel completely protected from intrusion - isn't that pretty much the least amount of security I can have (without forgoing it altogether)??

Understand feeling a little more protected if using WPA, but don't concern yourself about not being able to use WEP 128.

Methods I use to "test the security of wireless networks" (legally and with the network testee's full approval and knowledge of such testing) will work on cracking WEP in less than 20 seconds even if the key length is 64 / 128 / 256 / 512.

So could any other script kiddie, hackawanabee and more.

It'll only keep the honest wireless users out and answsers the question on if you are allowing public access of your AP or not.

So unless you can use WPA, don't worry at all about the key length of WEP. It's a wet hanky in it's strength to restrain those who really want to get into your network.

 

[DishSatUser]

I would agree that something with your dhcp settings is not correct. On the security side, WEP is easily cracked if anyone wanted to and its not much good. Your much better off to use WPA +TKIP or WPA2+ AES if your devices support it.

Yep!! Much better. Some AP's only provide WPA+PSK, instead of WEP, and is still "crackable" as it's only a matter of eventually determining the pre-shared key which never rotates. Takes much more time and effort than WEP, but it's all about how bad someone wants into your network for the level of effort. Most don't care at all and if it's even a little amount of work will move on.

If you are keeping Palo Alto security secrets, you'll want to ditch that AP for something better.

 

[vegassatellite]

Two potential problem points I see are the possible sharing of the cable that is running the cable modem with the wiring serving the satellite receiver. You can check that by running ping tests on Google from your DOS prompt and checking for a full set of replies. Do this while connecting a computer directly to your cable modem without a router or other devices. Also, under that same direct setup, try going to 192.168.100.1, depending on your modem and check your levels. You want your downstream (receive) to be between -10 and +5. Your upstream (send) should be between +37 and +50. Any higher and you run into trouble. You could even trash the modem's transmitter if its pushing greater than +55. S/N or Signal To Noise should be greater than +30.

If all that checks out, then just run your system for a bit using a single computer on just the cable modem. If its reliable, add your router, but nothing else. Then, gradually add devices until it craps out. The last device is the problem device.