Renew Hughes or switch to Wildblue?

[joegpatrick]

My Hughesnet contract expires soon and Wildblue is soliciting us. My basic question is stay or go?

1) Wildblue says they're faster than Hughes because Hughes is overloaded with customers?

2) We own our Hughes equipment and would be leasing new Wildblue equipment, but Wildblue says that our dish and HN7000S are obsolete?

3) What is Ka? And would we gain by getting a new HN9000 from Hughes? Is it likely that Hughes would offer new equipment as incentive to renew our contract?

4) Oh yeah, we just received an offer from Hughes of a $10 per month discount over the first 6 mos of a 2 year renewal commitment.

Appreciate any info and recommendations offered.

 

[grohgreg]

This is personal opinion mind you, but Wildblue would never get a nickel of my money. On to your specifics:
1. Wildblue is not faster. They have only three consumer rate plans, the fastest being 256k up/1500k down ($80/mo). For the same money, Hughes sells 256 up/1600 down. And they have three plans faster than that (up to 300/5000). Of course, the faster the plan, the higher the price.
2. That's a lie. The HN7000S is Hughes most current Ku-band system. I believe that WB is inferring that Ku-band is obsolete. Nothing could be farther from the truth. But just to show that Hughes isn't behind the technology curve, they also sell a Ka-band HN9000. New customers are typically provided with the 9000. But if your site has no visibility with the Ka-band satellite, they'll put in a 7000S instead. Similar rate plans are available regardless of which system you end up with.
3. Ku- and Ka- refer to the radio frequency band used, between the dish and the satellite. But you can't simply "get a new HN9000 modem". The outdoor equipment must be completely replaced as well. You can however upgrade from whatever your current modem is - to the HN7000S - and keep the same outdoor equipment. I'm not sure you can count on Hughes to give you several hundred dollars worth of new HN9000 outdoor equipment though. But it can't hurt to ask them.
4. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a HughesNet cheerleader. But that then that makes Hughes both faster and cheaper than Wildblue (for comparable rate plans).

//greg//

 

[Stargazer]

I am guessing that Ku is less affected by rain-fade? Since Ka is newer would it have fewer subscribers on it?

 

[grohgreg]

I am guessing that Ku is less affected by rain-fade? Since Ka is newer would it have fewer subscribers on it?

Rain fade is a function of wavelength. From the perspective of a raindrop, there's no meaningful difference between Ku-band wavelengths and Ka-band wavelenghts. Short answer, rain fade is about the same. If anything Ka- might be more susceptible to sleet.

I don't understand the math, because the Wildblue Ka-satellites (Anik-F2 and Wildblue-1) were originally touted as able to suppot nearly a million customers. They're only at 400,000 now, but have already negotiated more Ka-bandwidth from another source (EchoStar I think). I don't know if they over-estimated their capabilities, or if it was all just hype. But leasing more bandwidth strongly suggests that they're at or approaching saturation already.

But all is not rosy on the Hughes Ka-side either, they only have the one satellite (Spaceway 3). If that satellite experiences some kind of non-redundant failure, I know of no restoration plan for their Ka-customers.

I'm stickin' with my Ku-band HN7000S rig for the forseable future

//greg//

 

[Jared Twomey]

My Hughesnet contract expires soon and Wildblue is soliciting us. My basic question is stay or go?

1) Wildblue says they're faster than Hughes because Hughes is overloaded with customers?

2) We own our Hughes equipment and would be leasing new Wildblue equipment, but Wildblue says that our dish and HN7000S are obsolete?

3) What is Ka? And would we gain by getting a new HN9000 from Hughes? Is it likely that Hughes would offer new equipment as incentive to renew our contract?

4) Oh yeah, we just received an offer from Hughes of a $10 per month discount over the first 6 mos of a 2 year renewal commitment.

Appreciate any info and recommendations offered.

Just out of curiousity, what part of washington state are you in?
I install both wildblue and hughesnet, and I would have to say all the people we switch from Hughes 7000's to Wildblue seem happy with the change.
I don't know if it varies in different beams or whatnot, but we have had a lot of complaints with hughes systems slowing down in the early evening hours when a lot of people are on. I don't seem to have that problem on Wildblue.

Between a hughes 7000 and wildblue I would probably go Wildblue.
Between wildblue and hughes 9000..... I would probably go 9000

 

[joegpatrick]

I live on Whidbey Island just outside of Seattle. No cable lines yet in our neck of the woods, so Sat with Hughes or Wildblue are our only choices.

Yesterday, I did speed tests with 6 different testing sites, including HughesNet. Hughesnet was the highest @ 188k download/ 149k upload. All others were lower. One shows where we sit on a chart from 28k dial-up to 1500k DSL/T1/Cable Modem - It showed me @ 125.5k ISDN smack in the middle, 2 notches above dial-up and 2 below DSL. Others said we were "pretty slow."

This seems unacceptable for paying $91 mo ($86 + $5 for admin billing). I will be calling Hughes to see what they say about our speed tests. Wildblue guy says that on their Select Plan we will get 1000k for $55 for 1st year and $60 after that. And that I can expect speed testings @ 800k - 1000k on that plan.

 

[damjr]

One of the main factors I would consider would be my usage.

How much downloading do you do? You need to look at each companies threshold options to determine what will work for you.

The biggest differences between the two is FAP and # of users available on their birds.

If you compare these 2 very important factors you will see that HughesNet will win hands down.

FAP - You can and will get shut down on WB if you exceed and continue to exceed their FAP policy.
Hughes on the other hand will just throttle you back until your usage "bucket" fills back up again. This takes on a an average of 24 hours.

# of users - WB is limited to amount of users they can put on their birds. They have had to shut down entire areas all ready due to their spot beam filling up.
Some complaint I have heard from these areas that customers speeds are effected.
Hughes will never fill up their birds so you will not have to worry about this ever happening.

Just my $.02

 

[grohgreg]

Wildblue guy says ...that I can expect speed testings @ 800k - 1000k on that plan.

Don't believe him. Their Select plan is capped at 1000k in the first place. I doubt even their $80 Pro plan could deliver average speeds between 800k-1000k. That claim is little more more than a scripted sales pitch

But some of your slow speed issues could be correctable. Oversold gateways at the provider end notwithstanding, other things that can affect performance include
- antenna pointing
- low quality or degraded cable path
- low quality or incorrectly installed or corroded coaxial connectors
- missing or degraded cable ground
- aging power adapter
- aging modem
If it turns out to be any combination of the above, a simple modem upgrade won't help. So if you choose the simple HN7000S upgrade path, I'd advise also to get a certified installer to go over your current system with a fine toothed comb. And if the choice is the HN9000S (or Wildblue), make dang sure they install everything completely new from scratch. Don't re-use the old cable, the old cable fittings, or the old ground wire.

//greg//

 

[iwc5893]

You might be better off looking at some of the WISP's in your area

Washington

StarTouch claims they have wireless coverage on Whidbey Island, for example.

 

[Jared Twomey]

If you can get signal from a WISP, definately go that route.
That said, don't always take at face value when the sales guy tells you.
There is one company here that lies through their teeth just to get a sale.
The download speeds on a wildblue system are pretty stable though... everyone I install runs right at the speed it is supposed to. If they are on the 1Mb plan... it runs 900-1000 pretty stable. Upload isnt too hot on wildblue though.
I never see it anywhere near what they say it will do.

FYI- If the sales guy called you out of the blue, and he is with the company that sold you the hughesnet, and happens to be named Shawn, Chris, or Travis... be careful. They lie a lot to get the sale. And if it is that company, they have some good installers, but they have a few that are horrible (and not WB certified) , and at Whidbey island you would most like get one of those guys. Hopefully its not that company you are dealing with.

 

[Stargazer]

A WISP is most definitely the way to go unless you have issues receiving the signal or if the WISP has issues themselves.

I imagine any new broadband satellite company that comes out will have few users on their bandwidth therefore might be a good choice at first until their pipe starts to fill up. Same thing with Hughes or WB if a new satellite slot opens up. They oversubscribe and since the amount of bandwidth usage continues to go up, they need to allot more space for the same number of users that they have.

I think part of the problem is that they are still growing in number of subscribers therefore they are concentrating less on quality and more on quantity. If subscriber growth was not so great and they had more customers leaving for poor service then they would be able to invest the increase in space they are getting to allowing more bandwidth for their current customers insteadof their growing subscriber base. 300-500 kb/s today is like 53.3 kb/s tomorrow.