Rumor Alert: SuperDish Coming Soon to Many

[Mr Tony]

Yeah,

They will just move all local markets that have part of their channels at 110 or 119 all to the wing satellite and install the wing satellite dish. If the customer doesn't already have one, they'll just install the wing satellite dish.

Dish has a lot of refurbished legacy twins, and sw21's are ultra cheap. These will work for any receiver.

This would also clear out a lot of 110 and 119 for HD programming.

major problems here

-so lets see.....Mpls has one channel on 61.5, so move 10 channels to 61.5 and retrofit EVERYONE in the market with equipment?

-What about people who have DishPro?

-The spotbeams would be a bear to change to Conus if its even possible

-what about line of sight?

 

[hancox]

what about line of sight?

I'll say it again - LOS will kill 2 dish solutions. If EVERYONE could get these for free already, what prevents people getting a 2nd dish? LOS, LOS, LOS!!! There is a reason the stations on the 2nd dish feel slighted right now.

 

[Mr Tony]

I'll say it again - LOS will kill 2 dish solutions. If EVERYONE could get these for free already, what prevents people getting a 2nd dish? LOS, LOS, LOS!!! There is a reason the stations on the 2nd dish feel slighted right now.

but Direct is doing it now. What about people in those areas who can't get 72.5...what's going to happen?

 

[NightRyder]

but Direct is doing it now. What about people in those areas who can't get 72.5...what's going to happen?

Touche!


NightRyder

 

[NightRyder]

but Direct is doing it now. What about people in those areas who can't get 72.5...what's going to happen?

The government is creating an all or nothing situation. No LOS? Tough sh*t. If you can't get all of your locals via 1 dish you get none and have to find an alternative like OTA or cable (Gee, I wonder if the NAB and Cable lobby thought of that? ). Typical government logic, one solution fits all.


NightRyder

 

[bcshields]

The government is creating an all or nothing situation. No LOS? Tough sh*t. If you can't get all of your locals via 1 dish you get none and have to find an alternative like OTA or cable (Gee, I wonder if the NAB and Cable lobby thought of that? ). Typical government logic, one solution fits all.

NightRyder

I concur. I'd put money on the bet that the cable lobbies have their grubby hands in it. The only customers who complain about two dishes are the rich bastards that don't like the way one dish looks. I doubt those are the customers complaining about not recieving their local spanish channels.

Matter of fact, I think customer complaints on this topic are a myth and the whole thing is a cable lobby action because the Satellite TV lobbyists are pansies who can't agree on a stance.

Dish, Direct, and Voom need to work together to compete against cable, not each other. Maybe together they'll learn to grease the right pockets in Washington.

 

[rocatman]

Line of Sight (LOS) is not the main reason customers do not get the 2nd dish for wing locals. Issues such as appearance and having the hassle to get the 2nd dish to get channels customers are not going to watch anyway are more likely reasons not to get the 2nd dish. LOS can also impact 110/119 or any other location either on Dish or DirecTV and perpsective cutomers who don't have LOS for a specific location are just out of luck and have to look at their options with another provider.

It has been speculated in this thread that Dish was going to move locals on the wings to Superdish in the near future. There are several reasons why this is not practical. First, the worst case scenario with the single dish for locals legislation gives Dish at least a year from the time the legislation is enacted. Second, the cost to Dish to install Superdishes and replace older model receivers with ones that are compatible with Superdish would be enormous.

 

[MikeD-C05]

I am telling you that Charlie is going to uplink the less viewed channels to the 105 sat and require everyone to go with a Superdish if you want to see them. Then if you don't care about these locals , which most viewers don't, you won't call to upgrade. Especially if you don't want a Superdish. Yes this will violate the true intention of what the FCC wants but it won't violate the ONE DISH rule for locals. We already use ONE Dish 500 to get 110 and 119 satellites, so it is not much of a stretch to see Charlie do the same with the superdish. As for the old receivers , no problem. They are already saying the older receivers will not work with a superdish. So you can go with the lease program , which Dish is pushing even for existing customers. Or you can upgrade on your own. Most people will go with the lease deal to get the latest ,greatest receivers. Dish wants to retire the older receivers anyway. The lease program is the way to keep the older receivers out of the mix and they can concentrate on the security fixes for the newer receivers. For every customer they get on to a lease program like the 510 dvr , they get a dvr fee added to that customer's bill. For every customer they get on to a hd receiver like the 811, they get a new hd customer with the hd pack for 9.99 a month. I can see this working quite well.


1) Dish doesn't have to move all the locals on the 110 /119 satellite around to fit them on one satellite or another. They simply move the lesser viewed channels , currently on the side sats at 61.5 /148 and moves them to the new 105 sat which reaches all over the U.S.,Alaska , and Hawaii. Note no one loses their locals while they transition over to the new superdish. They might only lose the lesser viewed on the side sat unless they upgrade to the new Superdish , which I am sure Charlie will make customers stay in a commitment for a year for top 60 and local channels . Dish wins again.


2)Charlie gets Dish to be , on the surface , in compliance with the one Dish rule for locals with the Superdish. For those who don't call to upgrade to the superdish, Dish saves the money on the upgrade and they still get to thumb their nose at the FCC over the "must carry lesser viewed channels".


3)Customers with older receivers ( 1000,2000,5000,7100,7200) can call to upgrade with the lease program and get the latest greatest receivers. Dish now gets more money from these customers with the dvr fee and or hd pack for 9.99 added to their bill.

Dish wins all the way around and so do the customers in this sceanerio. I see this being done to save Dish the money required to do the one dish rule quickly within the year. Now I know that everyone will now say NO way Dish can't do this blah blah blah. But I have been with Dish close to 8 years. Do you really think that he is going to just bend over and take it up the butt by the FCC, Directv( Murdoch) and the cable industry ? He has ALWAYS flaunted the rules in regards to local into local. I see him doing this in a way that saves his company the money , & his customers the least in inconviences possible. What makes more sense? Moving all the locals around on the spotbeams to make room for a few lesser viewed channels , or move the lesser viewed channels to the new 105 satellite which goes to every state in the country.

OF course I could be wrong and he might just move every city that is presently on the 110 and the 119 satellite to the 105 satellite with the lesser viewed channels. That is like 36 cities I think. This of course will mean that most people will lose their locals while they transition over to the superdish unless they are mirrored on the 110/119 satellites as they are now. My bet is on my first hypothesis.

Time will tell.

 

[larrystotler]

major problems here

-so lets see.....Mpls has one channel on 61.5, so move 10 channels to 61.5 and retrofit EVERYONE in the market with equipment?

-What about people who have DishPro?

-The spotbeams would be a bear to change to Conus if its even possible

-what about line of sight?

What about DishPro? That has nothign to do with anything. DP is an LNB/Switch setup.

 

[larrystotler]

Where does everyone keep getting this One Dish rule? The problem is 1 location, not dish. D* is doing exactly what was originally envisioned by putting all of the locals from the 24 markets on 1 location, which just happens to require a second dish. What would more than likely happen is that the big markets, NYC, LA, DC, etc will stay on the main locations, 110 & 119, especially with E10 going up soon with the 45 spotbeams. They will then move the smaller markets to the wings at the 61.5 and the 148, since they will not need as much equipment this way. With AMC 15, they will probably start moving locals off of the 105 to E10 to free up space for more HD content. This would be pretty transparent to the sub, since they probably won't know the difference, and with the existing SD, the upgrade to HD would be pretty painless. The subs with the 121 would probably only need a LNB swapout and a repoint to get the 105 instead. I would say the plan is to move all the locals off the SDs, since the only reason they used the 105 for locals was because they had the inventory and they would have rather used it to get a head start on the new locals rather than let it sit and loose money on the lease of AMC2.

As for collecting old equipment when doing SD upgrades, it would not take much for them to change their contract so that all the old dishes and switches would be collected for refurb and reuse for the changeovers.

As for LOS, you end up with the same problem when you try to do an install. No LOS, no system. Not a whole lot you can do about it.

 

[bcshields]

Where does everyone keep getting this One Dish rule? The problem is 1 location, not dish.

Easy. Someone read the legislation. It's one Dish per DMA, not location.

 

[larrystotler]

Easy. Someone read the legislation. It's one Dish per DMA, not location.

Right - DMA meaning all the locals come in on 1 dish or sat, not all programming comes in on 1 dish.

 

[bcshields]

Only all local programming on one dish, whether it's 2 on 110, 2 on 119, and 6 on 105, that's up to the powers that be.

 

[larrystotler]

Look, the whole intent on this is to have all locals from 1 DMA on 1 sat. SO that all the DC locals are on the 110, all LA on the 148, etc. They do not want them split over the 105/110/119, since this is not solving the problem, since not all users will upgrade to an SD to get their locals, so you still have the same problem. Spreading them like that is pointless, especially if they need the 121 for International. And, w/ AMC 15 now up, they will probably start moving the current 105 locals to E10 when it is ready and free up the 105 for HD as originally planned. The problem resolves around, as an example, my 7 main locals are on the 110, with 5 others on the 61.5, which I could care less about. Since DC is a large DMA< they will move all of DC's locals to the 110 w/ E10, and move smaller markets to the 61.5 to free up room on the 110. Same situation as D* with the 72.5. All locals on that location, as was originally planned. No one is saying that D* will have to get rid of the 72.5, especially considering that they have a like 10 year lease on it after the give it to the Canadians, and the FCC approved EVERYTHING involved with the 72.5 plan.

 

[bcshields]

I think E10 will make this a moot argument anyway.

But I think the legislation reads "one recieving device and equipment" not "one transmitting sputnik in the sky".

 

[larrystotler]

RIGHT - One receiving device FOR THE LOCALS ONLY. ALL this has to do is with the locals, not the rest of the programming. No where does it say that ALL programming has to come in on 1 dish. Like I just pointed out, D* is using a SEPERATE dish for the 72.5, since ALL of the DMA's locals will come in on that 1 DISH. It is a LOCALS ONLY problem, not an ALL PROGRAMMING problem.

 

[NightRyder]

Here's the section on the One Dish Rule from the Bill passed by the House.

SEC. 203. CARRIAGE OF LOCAL STATIONS ON A SINGLE DISH.

(a) Amendments- Section 338 of the Communications Act of 1934 (47 U.S.C. 338(d)) is amended--

(1) by redesignating subsections (g) and (h) as subsections (j) and (k), respectively; and

(2) by inserting after subsection (f) the following new subsection:

`(g) Carriage of Local Stations on a Single Dish-

`(1) SINGLE DISH- Each satellite carrier that retransmits the analog signals of local television broadcast stations in a local market shall retransmit such analog signals in such market by means of a single reception antenna and associated equipment.

`(2) EXCEPTION- If the carrier retransmits signals in the digital television service, the carrier shall retransmit such digital signals in such market by means of a single reception antenna and associated equipment, but such antenna and associated equipment may be separate from the single reception antenna and associated equipment used for analog television service signals.

`(3) EFFECTIVE DATE- The requirements of paragraphs (1) and (2) of this subsection shall apply on and after one year after the date of enactment of the Satellite Home Viewer Extension and Reauthorization Act of 2004.

`(4) NOTICE OF DISRUPTIONS- A carrier that is providing signals of a local television broadcast station in a local market under this section on the date of enactment of the Satellite Home Viewer Extension and Reauthorization Act of 2004 shall, not later than 270 days after such date of enactment, provide to the licensees for such stations and the carrier's subscribers in such local market a notice that displays prominently and conspicuously a clear statement of--

`(A) any reallocation of signals between different reception antennas and associated equipment that the carrier intends to make in order to comply with the requirements of this subsection;

`(B) the need, if any, for subscribers to obtain an additional reception antenna and associated equipment to receive such signals; and

`(C) any cessation of carriage or other material change in the carriage of signals as a consequence of the requirements of this paragraph.'.

(b) Conforming Amendments: Commission Enforcement of Section; Low Power Television Stations-

(1) Section 338(a) of such Act is amended by striking paragraphs (1) and (2) and inserting the following:

`(1) IN GENERAL- Each satellite carrier providing, under section 122 of title 17, United States Code, secondary transmissions to subscribers located within the local market of a television broadcast station of a primary transmission made by that station shall carry upon request the signals of all television broadcast stations located within that local market, subject to section 325(b).

`(2) REMEDIES FOR FAILURE TO CARRY- In addition to the remedies available to television broadcast stations under section 501(f) of title 17, United States Code, the Commission may use the Commission's authority under this Act to assure compliance with the obligations of this subsection, but in no instance shall a Commission enforcement proceeding be required as a predicate to the pursuit of a remedy available under such section 501(f).

`(3) LOW POWER STATION CARRIAGE OPTIONAL- No low power television station whose signals are provided under section 119(a)(14) of title 17, United States Code, shall be entitled to insist on carriage under this section, regardless of whether the satellite carrier provides secondary transmissions of the primary transmissions of other stations in the same local market pursuant to section 122 of such title, nor shall any such carriage be considered in connection with the requirements of subsection (c) of this section.'.

(2) Section 338(c)(1) of such Act is amended by striking `subsection (a)' and inserting `subsection (a)(1)'.

(3) Section 338(k) of such Act (as redesignated by subsection (a)(1)) is amended--

(A) by redesignating paragraphs (4) through (7) as paragraphs (5) through (8), respectively; and

(B) by inserting after paragraph (3) the following new paragraph:

`(4) LOW POWER TELEVISION STATION- The term `low power television station' means a low power television station as defined under section 74.701(f) of title 47, Code of Federal Regulations, as in effect on June 1, 2004. For purposes of this paragraph, the term `low power television station' includes a low power television station that has been accorded primary status as a Class A television licensee under section 73.6001(a) of title 47, Code of Federal Regulations.'.



NightRyder

 

[larrystotler]

Here's the section on the One Dish Rule from the Bill passed by the House.

`(1) SINGLE DISH- Each satellite carrier that retransmits the analog signals of local television broadcast stations in a local market shall retransmit such analog signals in such market by means of a single reception antenna and associated equipment.

`(2) EXCEPTION- If the carrier retransmits signals in the digital television service, the carrier shall retransmit such digital signals in such market by means of a single reception antenna and associated equipment, but such antenna and associated equipment may be separate from the single reception antenna and associated equipment used for analog television service signals.

THANK YOU. See, if E* decides to carry DC's Digital Locals, they can be on a differnt Dish. So you can have 1 dish for analog locals, 1 dish for digital locals and no mentions is made about any other programming BUT locals.............................

Heck, E* could just say screw it and pull the locals in some markets. It's not like E* has to have locals. This might loose them some subs to D*, but it is a possibility. They could send you a notice saying that "due to changes in the law, we will not offer locals to NEW subs or will drop this local market for now", No one said that they HAD to carry the locals. V* doesn't have any locals. They got the locals to steal subs from cable, since this is what the subs wanted.

 

[MikeD-C05]

So the way I read this YOU can have one Superdish to receive your locals and primary national channels. You can have a second dish ,different than the primary reception dish , to get DIGITAL locals . So I stand by my idea that Dish will use the 105 Superdish to do the 36 markets that have split locals now. Now whether they move the side lesser viewed channels to the 105 sat and leave the rest on 110 /119 or they move ALL the channels to the 105 sat remains to be seen. My bet is still on Charlie being cheap and just moving the lesser viewed channels that are on the side sats to the 105 sat and leaving the rest where they are now. That way he can still thumb his nose at the FCC and still be in compliance technically with the one dish rule.

 

[larrystotler]

Perhaps, but this would require that the locals ALL come in on the superdish, and with AMC15, I forsee that E* will start moving the locals off of it to add HD content like was originally envisioned. AND< they will still have to put all of each DMA on 1 bird, and will not be able to split the DMAs like they are now. In the DC area, we get 5 locals from the 61.5. Moving these 5 to the 105 and leaving the rest on the 110 is not going to fix anything since all subs would have to upgrade to the SD, which would be expensive, and that not all subs will agree to get the SD for just those 5 channels, so what have you solved? In this case, the 5 locals will have to be moved to the 110, and other, smaller DMAs will be completely shifted to the 61.5 instead. E* would NOT be in compliance they way you are suggesting because many subs will REFUSE to get the SD for these 5 channels, like they are refusing to get the 61.5 for them. The only way to be in complience would be to move all of 1 DMA to 1 location, and not split any DMAs except for maybe some between the 110 & 119, which is still not what the law is trying to accomplish.