SatelliteGuys.US DishNetwork Uplink Activity Discussion- Week Ending 10/13/2007

rglore

Pub Member / Supporter
Pub Member / Supporter
Mar 12, 2006
1,653
94
Louisville
Regarding bit rate and resolution, I would like to hear anyone's explanation as to why increased resolution would not result in a better HD picture. (And I'm not talking about some artsy explanation that soft, fuzzy pictures are better, which I would not believe even for one second.)

Regards,
Fitzie

Of course higher resolution is better. The problem is the bitrate or the amount of bandwidth that is made available for each channel. When there's no motion, the full resolution is shown but as soon as movement occurs, there's a point that there is more data needed than the set bitrate can provide. Then the MPEG algorithm will lower the resolution to lessen the bitrate to fit the available bandwidth. The tradeoff is that with higher base resolution, you hit the bitrate limit quicker during motion and resolution gets lowered more often.

Bottom line is that the bitrate is what really determines resolution. If the base resolution is too high for the bitrate, the nice clear picture gets ugly faster with increasing image movement. Hopefully with the new satellites, Dish can provide enough bandwidth for full HD resolution.
 

mike123abc

Too many cables
Supporting Founder
Sep 25, 2003
23,923
2,694
Norman, OK
This is not rocket science. Dish knows which channels are the most popular. Adding them in order of popularity is the easiest method to get the most subs happy. The problem is that most channels do not have an HD feed yet. Filling up the available HD space just because a channel is out is probably not the best use of the limited space they have.
 

wktaylor

New Member
Jan 27, 2007
1
0
I actually can get my locals in HD, they just want to add a third dish for me to get them. It already looks like my house is subbing for SETI, so I'm hoping that at some point they move my locals around so I can get them without another dish. OTA is occasionally spotty, and I'd really like to get the freaking guide information for the channels I do get, right now, it's just "Digital Service" and I have to manually record a show.
 

John Kotches

SatelliteGuys Master
Supporting Founder
Nov 21, 2003
6,765
195
Troy, IL (STL Area)
That's a myth.
In the case of HD over satellite, picture quality is determined by bitrate, not resolution.

It's both.

If E* increased the resolution of all the MPEG4 channels, the picture quality would be worse, not better.

You've assumed that the bit rate isn't raised here. A fair assumption but not a certain one.

Then again the squeeze/unsqueeze (1920 ---> 1440 --> 1920) could be more detrimental to PQ then the higher resolution itself at the same bit rate.

Engineering is not as simple as people seem to think.
For example, there are plenty of cars that would perform worse with an engine with more horsepower...

First we have to define what worse is. Worse is subjective.
 

goaliebob99

SatelliteGuys Master
Supporting Founder
Aug 5, 2004
14,481
517
-.-. .... .. -.-. .- --. ---
It's both.



You've assumed that the bit rate isn't raised here. A fair assumption but not a certain one.

Then again the squeeze/unsqueeze (1920 ---> 1440 --> 1920) could be more detrimental to PQ then the higher resolution itself at the same bit rate.



First we have to define what worse is. Worse is subjective.

John is right on the money.
 

Slamminc11

Pub Member / Supporter
Jan 28, 2005
4,174
236
Maybe it wasnt a threat.. you know people do actually put there money were their mouth is :p.

Then see ya.
But if you will read most posts on this board about adding a new channel, it's... "I'm going to leave if they don't carry..." but my guess is only about 2% of those people actually do leave.
 

waltinvt

Supporting Founder
Supporting Founder
Feb 16, 2004
3,439
1
Vermont
Of course higher resolution is better. The problem is the bitrate or the amount of bandwidth that is made available for each channel. When there's no motion, the full resolution is shown but as soon as movement occurs, there's a point that there is more data needed than the set bitrate can provide. Then the MPEG algorithm will lower the resolution to lessen the bitrate to fit the available bandwidth. The tradeoff is that with higher base resolution, you hit the bitrate limit quicker during motion and resolution gets lowered more often.

Bottom line is that the bitrate is what really determines resolution. If the base resolution is too high for the bitrate, the nice clear picture gets ugly faster with increasing image movement. Hopefully with the new satellites, Dish can provide enough bandwidth for full HD resolution.

That's a great explanation - even I understood it.
 

rufus

Member
Nov 26, 2006
8
0
My only problem with E is that I have to get my networks from the dreaded AAD, for 12 bucks a month I get to watch Standard Def with a pq I use to get in the sixties with rabbit ears. If I can get HD distant nets I would stay with e, but I havn't seen any light around the corner. Rufus from W.V.
 

Voyager6

*Cancelled*
Pub Member / Supporter
Lifetime Supporter
Nov 30, 2005
17,097
5,323
Wokeville
My only problem with E is that I have to get my networks from the dreaded AAD, for 12 bucks a month I get to watch Standard Def with a pq I use to get in the sixties with rabbit ears. If I can get HD distant nets I would stay with e, but I havn't seen any light around the corner. Rufus from W.V.
Are you using 61.5 for HD? You could "move" and get the DC HD locals from 61.5.
 

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