Satellites and trees

[ldubin]

Hello all,
I would frequent the forum much more if I actually had an HR20 (because I'm pretty sure I can tweak it just as much as everyone else is) but alas, I have an OLD box... Here is my story and cry for help...

I live out in the middle of no where (thats not true but still). We have had DirecTV for about 7 years, using an old single sat system with good signal. I called DirecTV to come upgrade the sat to a LBN 5 and HD DVR, young guy came and said it was a no go unless we put the sat on the garage and buried the line in, not an issue. Second guy comes out, no clue why but oh well. Looks at the garage and says nope, trees are in the way, but we could put it on the barn. Fine, we'll bury that line. Unfortunately the barn is over the signal limit that directv allows (over 140 ft or something). So thats no go...so here I am, brand new HD TV and only OTA HD.

So minus deforestation...anyone want to suggest a way to get HD Sat? Are DishNetworks sats higher in the sky? Can I use a monkey and a mirror to bounce the sat signals?

N00b question: Can i do to radioshack and buy the little plastic degree thingy that they look through and start walking about my property with a ladder?

Stats:
Zip 17003
If needed I can actually give lat and long...

 

[dishcomm]

Hello all,
I would frequent the forum much more if I actually had an HR20 (because I'm pretty sure I can tweak it just as much as everyone else is) but alas, I have an OLD box... Here is my story and cry for help...

I live out in the middle of no where (thats not true but still). We have had DirecTV for about 7 years, using an old single sat system with good signal. I called DirecTV to come upgrade the sat to a LBN 5 and HD DVR, young guy came and said it was a no go unless we put the sat on the garage and buried the line in, not an issue. Second guy comes out, no clue why but oh well. Looks at the garage and says nope, trees are in the way, but we could put it on the barn. Fine, we'll bury that line. Unfortunately the barn is over the signal limit that directv allows (over 140 ft or something). So thats no go...so here I am, brand new HD TV and only OTA HD.

So minus deforestation...anyone want to suggest a way to get HD Sat? Are DishNetworks sats higher in the sky? Can I use a monkey and a mirror to bounce the sat signals?

N00b question: Can i do to radioshack and buy the little plastic degree thingy that they look through and start walking about my property with a ladder?

Stats:
Zip 17003
If needed I can actually give lat and long...

Techs should investigate all areas of your property before declaring no line of sight. There are ampifiers on the market that resolve the distance issue. However there may be additional charges for ecessiveburial distance. You may want to do that yourself to avoid the charge. Try the barn ,use the amps.....Good luck!

 

[Brewer4]

I wouldnt give up hope as dishcomm suggested. First time I try to get 5 LNB dish installed they said no go. Second time, install was easy and fantastic. So I would keep trying and try the suggestion as dishcomm said. If you have a spot that can work via sight there has to be a way to make it work with the line distance. I would do it no matter what as I cant imagine 140 fee wouldnt work. You might have to pay extra since its not a straight forward install but something has to work and you should talk to a Directv supervisor to oversee this getting done. They may have to send out a regional installer to do this. This happened with my in laws as I escalated it since I first installer had no clue and I marched it up the ladder until I got a guy 2 hours away doing the install.

 

[bonscott87]

If you get a signal now on 101 then you are pretty much all set for the new HD sats which are 99 and 103, just 2 degrees either side. You'd have to have a pretty small hole in the trees to not get all 3. Now 110 and 119 could certainly be an issue as those are off the right and down lower.

And the sats are much higher in the sky then you might think. In PA they will be at least 50 degrees above the horizon (for 99/101/103).

Anyway, it should be doable. If you want, take some pics and post them and we can give you an idea. Pole in the backyard is always an option as well.

 

[Jimbo]

ldubin,
Back when the 5 LNB set up came out, we had people checking just how long you could go without loseing signal.
It was determined that you could go at least 250 ft without any problems, thats using the 5 lnb set up, not the single or triple.

I would do as others have mentioned, either a. Call D* installers back out and tell them where you want it, or B. purchase the equipment and do it yourself.

If you have done previous dish set ups, check out the 5 lnb videos and give it a go, it's not that hard if you have a clear LOS.

Jimbo

 

[raoul5788]

If you get a signal now on 101 then you are pretty much all set for the new HD sats which are 99 and 103, just 2 degrees either side. You'd have to have a pretty small hole in the trees to not get all 3. Now 110 and 119 could certainly be an issue as those are off the right and down lower.

And the sats are much higher in the sky then you might think. In PA they will be at least 50 degrees above the horizon (for 99/101/103).

Anyway, it should be doable. If you want, take some pics and post them and we can give you an idea. Pole in the backyard is always an option as well.

Where he is the elevation is about 36 degrees.

 

[dishcomm]

If you get a signal now on 101 then you are pretty much all set for the new HD sats which are 99 and 103, just 2 degrees either side. You'd have to have a pretty small hole in the trees to not get all 3. Now 110 and 119 could certainly be an issue as those are off the right and down lower.

And the sats are much higher in the sky then you might think. In PA they will be at least 50 degrees above the horizon (for 99/101/103).

Anyway, it should be doable. If you want, take some pics and post them and we can give you an idea. Pole in the backyard is always an option as well.

here are the elevations for the DTV sats for zips beginning with 170....Orbital slot 99 deg W is at 37.1 deg EL....the 101 deg W orbtal slot is at 37.0 DEG EL the 103 Deg slot is at 36.0 Deg EL..The 110 degree slot is at 32.2 deg EL and the 119 orbital slot is at 26.4 Deg EL.....

 

[grydlok]

1st are signal apps rated for KA band.
2nd. The KA band drops faster over distance than KU band.
200ft is about far as I would go.

 

[grydlok]

If you dropped 4 lines in the ground "flooded cable" from your barn to the house they would do it. No question asked.

 

[ldubin]

Awesome replys. Sorry for the delay...I guess thread notification didn't stay on. Ok lets go through this.
First, I will post pics tomorrow as...its dark out now.
The garage would be great because its a lot closer but there are slight trees there, the barn is a good long trench but no trees are getting in the way of that.
bonscott, I honestly think its a small hole between branches, not even trees. But the first time the main sat was installed they said no way signal and we have no problems with signal...ever soo...

Jimbos: It was going to be a 5LNB and the installer wanted to do it but he called someone in Corp and they said no more then 140. I'd love to install the thing myself, but D* was going to provide everything (Dish, HD DVR, DVR) for nothing...soo...I'd rather keep it on the dirt cheap side.

grydlok: define flooded cable...I was just gonna drop 4 coxial in a PVC tube about 18 inches down.

I was told that (he might have guessed) from my house to the barn is 175'.

I will however post a Google sat pic to show probably nothing important...but it make bombing myhouse that much easier!

Thanks to you all I'll post pics tomorrow.

 

[ldubin]

 

[ldubin]

Attached if a Google Earth pic of the house and surrounding area. The yellow dot is current 1 sat dish, the red line is about the direction it is pointing. Also there are some heavy shadows from the trees on my driveway so keep that in mind as the garage has a "parking lot" infront of it.

 

[dfergie]

Idubin, Welcome to Satelliteguys... our spam prevention program caught your last post is why the delay in posting... under 5 posts and puttng a url in and other things trigger it... again welcome

 

[ldubin]

Idubin, Welcome to Satelliteguys... our spam prevention program caught your last post is why the delay in posting... under 5 posts and puttng a url in and other things trigger it... again welcome

I know some other forums that need that...Thank for the info..I'll go delete the first post.
CHeers!

 

[bonscott87]

Where he is the elevation is about 36 degrees.

Elevation in the sky is different then the elevation setting on your dish. There are a couple times a year the sun is in the exact position as the sat and several times the moon is. Go outside at the right time and you'll see exactly where the sats are. They are a LOT higher in the sky then one things.

So when I say 50 degrees, that's from the horizon up in the sky, not the setting on the dish. Knowing the elevation from the horizon will tell you if you can clear any trees. I thought for sure a tall tree of mine would block 99 but sure enough the sat was at least 2 degrees above that tree. All is good.

 

[grydlok]

Awesome replys. Sorry for the delay...I guess thread notification didn't stay on. Ok lets go through this.
First, I will post pics tomorrow as...its dark out now.
The garage would be great because its a lot closer but there are slight trees there, the barn is a good long trench but no trees are getting in the way of that.
bonscott, I honestly think its a small hole between branches, not even trees. But the first time the main sat was installed they said no way signal and we have no problems with signal...ever soo...

Jimbos: It was going to be a 5LNB and the installer wanted to do it but he called someone in Corp and they said no more then 140. I'd love to install the thing myself, but D* was going to provide everything (Dish, HD DVR, DVR) for nothing...soo...I'd rather keep it on the dirt cheap side.

grydlok: define flooded cable...I was just gonna drop 4 coxial in a PVC tube about 18 inches down.

I was told that (he might have guessed) from my house to the barn is 175'.

I will however post a Google sat pic to show probably nothing important...but it make bombing myhouse that much easier!

Thanks to you all I'll post pics tomorrow.

Perfect Vision ULPVRG6SCDLQD Dual RG-6 Quad-Shielded Coax Cable - 500 ft (Reel in a Box) - Black (ULPVRG6SCDLQD) | Perfect Vision [ULPVRG6SCDLQD] Perfect Vision coax cable wire rg6 rg11 rg 6 rg 11 cable

Pure copper all the way. If you can find it locally make sure it's a 100% copper. PVC would be the way to go all the way to the home.
After you do that don't worry about connectors, just call D* and order again.

 

[grydlok]

Attached if a Google Earth pic of the house and surrounding area. The yellow dot is current 1 sat dish, the red line is about the direction it is pointing. Also there are some heavy shadows from the trees on my driveway so keep that in mind as the garage has a "parking lot" infront of it.

That's pretty good.

 

[bonscott87]

In viewing that pick it's hard to say what the elevation is but certainly the barn should be no problem.
Garage may have issues if those trees are pretty tall but the back corner might be good. I'm thinking you'd have less issues with 110 and 119 there.

What about that clearing to the left of the garage? Do you own that?
A pole just into the clearing past the trees should give you a clear shot of all the sat and looks to be closer then the barn.
Or a pole in the backyard north of the pool a bit. All you need to do is clear the trees with some room for growth assuming the trees aren't capped out yet.

Here is some info to use the sun or moon to find the exact sat positions: Use the Sun to Site New Satellite Dish - DBSTalk.Com

If I read it right you can use the moon this weekend to get the sat positions.

 

[igator99]

Attached if a Google Earth pic of the house and surrounding area. The yellow dot is current 1 sat dish, the red line is about the direction it is pointing. Also there are some heavy shadows from the trees on my driveway so keep that in mind as the garage has a "parking lot" infront of it.

You have so much property their I would bet you could find a signal someplace. If not call a local pro not associated with D*. If there is indeed a tree problem, it doesn't look like you have a HOA to worry about so why not buy a chainsaw and some fun one weekend? Good luck I have a tree problem and a HOA to deal with. I think you will find a way. The folks on here can give you some great advice.

 

[ldubin]

The house elevation, if it matters...so sayith Google Earth is 552ft (we are on top of a hill over looking a valley to the south...you'd think this wouldn't be that hard.

bonscott: I'm going to look into that Sun website...look promising...minus the incoming storm clouds

Ok, I would rather not do this on the barn as our soil is rock and clay, so I would actually need a trencher and not me and my friends, shovels and a 6-pack (more like a keg but still). The garage is the same deal but less hassle.

Below/attached are some pics of current sat, a place I just found near our porch, a long shot of the barn... and a pic or two of the garage. Pretty much everything shown, we own or have access to. South is being photo graphed in the sat and porch pics, its to the left on the garage and the right on the barn.

You guys really have been helpful, thanks. Instead of calling D* again, can I buy that little device for calcutating angles that they use and then once they come out pretty much not argue with a install it here?

Thanks, so much again.