Second dish 22KHz switch SonicView HD8000

[jwwbrennan]

I want to add a second dish to the components listed in my signature. AMC 21 is unreachable from the first dish.

I am using a DISEQC 4 Port Switch between the motor and the Invacom LNBs on the first dish. Will a Digiwave 0/22KHz work with this configuration using the 22KHz function on the SonicView? There are two settings – On Off. Would they be equivalent to a toggle in selecting an LNB source or will the addition of the switch offer further choices (Off, A, B)? The new cable will result in a total run from that dish of about 200 feet; will switching cause too much signal degradation? If so what is a recommended solution?

Regards,

 

[Anole]

wiring for switches

If you have a 4x1 diseqc switch to select between linear and circular (L / C) outputs of your QPH-031, you already have two unused inputs available.
Any reason you couldn't use one of them?

See drawing and post in the Switches Simplified FAQ:
- Motor and QPH-031 LNB:
http://www.satelliteguys.us/fta-mpeg2-faqs/134124-switch-setups-simplified.html#post1344310

And to answer the question you asked, yes it's possible to put a 22khz switch on each input of the 4x1 diseqc to get eight total inputs.
That idea isn't documented in the FAQ, but it is viable.
However, in your example, it is unnecessary.

One last point... sometimes it's difficult to get switches to work reliably at long distances from the receiver.
If you have any trouble, double check your cable connections, and grounding at the dish.

 

[jwwbrennan]

Thanks Anole;

"Any reason you couldn't use one of them?"

I actually used all four. They were there, the dish is in an awkward spot and I thought is was an inexpensive way to initiate testing (before getting out of the chair) in the case of failure.

The 4X1 DISEQC is fastened to the dish between the dish motor and the LNBs and the whole shebang is off in a different direction than the planned dish so it would add unwanted distance.

"One last point... sometimes it's difficult to get switches to work reliably at long distances from the receiver."

That is a good point and I can put it within 50 feet of the receiver.

"If you have any trouble, double check your cable connections, and grounding at the dish."

That would be easy to overlook.

Thanks again...

 

[Anole]

I'm confused

Did you mean that you want to put a 22khz switch at the receiver to select between the 200' run to the motor/QPH031, and the new dish only 50' away?
If so, then no, I would not rely on the 22khz switch to handle the motor current.

 

[jwwbrennan]

Presently I have an SG-2100 and an Invacom Quad Polar with a 4X1 DiSeqC between them. There is a run of about 70 feet from the motor to the SonicView. It works very nicely but with PBS moving, the motor is at the end of its range (I am at 63.0) and there are trees in the way. I now want to add a 39" dish with a single FTA Linear LNB using a 0/22 HKz switch connecting to the halfway point of the existing 70' run. That will put the 22 HKz switch as much as 50' from the SonicView, 150' from the single LNB and as much as 30' from the 4X1. I am wondering if that will work.

Thanks for all your help.

 

[gillham]

The motor load might not be an issue with the ECODA 22Khz switch. SatelliteAV said they tested it with 3X the normal load. 2X1 SWITCH - 22KHZ ECODA - SatelliteAV, LLC.

Most DVB receivers only put out 400-500mA for the LNB. The SG2100 shows a max power load of 350mA. Some ECODA page I found shows it has a max power pass of 300mA. With the 3X load SatelliteAV tested, I think it should be ok to run 350mA max across the switch. You would be out of spec, but the normal power consumption on the SG2100 is listed as 200mA so maybe only out of spec as it starts moving.

This link has a couple interesting diagrams, including one saying you can run a DiSEqC motor off the ECODA as long as it is on the 0 port.
Ecoda 22khz switches

I would say try it. Depending on voltage sag you might want to consider a bandstacked LNBF for that long of cable run. It won't care about voltage sag as much as a normal LNBF. I think Dish said you could go out to about 200 feet with a bandstacked (Dish Pro) versus the typical 100 feet for a normal voltage switching LNBF.

 

[gillham]

Geometry

Based on your description it sounds like at about 35 feet (middle of the run to the motorized dish) from the Viewsat you want to switch and run a roughly 165 foot cable at a right angle to the single LNBF dish? I say 165 as you said it would end up with about 200 feet total to the 2nd dish.

If that is correct, my geometry says you can cut 30 feet off that by just running the 2nd dish straight back to the receiver or at least to the entry point to the house. Since you would be talking about a right triangle with one side 35 feet and another 165. The hypotenuse would be 168.7 feet. That is only ~4 longer than running to the midpoint and eliminates about 30 feet of extra cable loss.

Your midpoint might already be the outside of the house though, so I am just guessing here.

 

[jwwbrennan]

Hey, that's great. Thanks

I went ahead and ordered the Digiwave SW-03/P (500mA MAX, DC power passing from RX to LNB) for ten bucks. If it works I will try Las Vegas next.

You were correct when you said it is the entry point to the house. The present cable heads to the roof. The new one will carry on down the yard to a new post yet to be determined.

In reading the various bits on the Internet I figured 'off' means no signal for one port and 'on' means a consistent signal to hold the second port open so 'off' would seem logical for the 4X1 switch port. I am hoping 'off' has little more effect than a simple connector.

 

[gillham]

Hey, that's great. Thanks

I went ahead and ordered the Digiwave SW-03/P (500mA MAX, DC power passing from RX to LNB) for ten bucks. If it works I will try Las Vegas next.

Well an issue you might not have read about is that many (most?) 22Khz switches will not let 22Khz tones pass through the switch. So you can control the switch, but not the motor or DiSEqC switch beyond it. The ECODA is known to pass the 22Khz signal. I think it is worthwhile to test the Digiwave, but based on a lot of comments I've read the ECODA is about the only one known to work this way.

In reading the various bits on the Internet I figured 'off' means no signal for one port and 'on' means a consistent signal to hold the second port open so 'off' would seem logical for the 4X1 switch port. I am hoping 'off' has little more effect than a simple connector.

There is the 22Khz passing issue and the fact there is a solid state switch in there that can only pass so much current before letting the magic smoke out. Another note with switches is you should always power the receiver off with the switch on the back (not just standby or remote "off") or unplug from the wall/mains before connecting or disconnecting switches. They pop easily.

 

[Anole]

Jim - I think Gill pretty covered all the bases.
Now it's up to you to try the configurations and see what works for you.
I'd test the 125° dish without any switches 'till I had it running, but other than that, just about everything you need to consider is posted above. - :up

edit: (Okay, I did think of more...) -

The bandstacked LNB on the motorized dish would mean giving up your dual mode Invacom, so that may not be so attractive.
But, it's still a good idea, and I'm not a big fan of worrying what's on circular . . .
The basis of the idea is that you could send the higher voltage all the time out the long run to the motor/LNB.

IF it turns out that the motor speed or current draw are not to your liking, there is a well documented mod to the 2100 motors, where you supply them around 20 volts from something like a left-over laptop power supply.
That is hooked directly to the motor, bypassing the coax.
Just something to file away in case it should become a problem.

And lastly, there was a suggestion a while back, that you might lose some signal passing through the motor.
So, if you were to open it up to hook in direct power, you might perform another mod.
. . . Although, it hasn't been discussed much in public threads, I did have a conversation a while back with Linuxman, and one of us came up with a clever external idea on how to keep your LNB signal out of the motor.
If you find your signals are better by bypassing the motor, and decide to look for a mod, we then we can get into it more.
If you're happy with your signals, then we're done.

 

[jwwbrennan]

I am hoping the bits and pieces arrive on Friday and as recommended I will set up the single linear to work directly. If everything works correctly I will add hardware until it stops.

I will report back.

 

[jwwbrennan]

The switch and the motor are incompatible. (Reception was not effected.)

Now I will try to find an ECODA 22Khz switch in Canada.

If that fails an external power source for the motor will be the next option.

Failing all else I will negotiate with the dog about operating an outdoor manual unit on request. He’s tough but I live in a log house where drilling holes in the walls is even less desirable.

 

[jwwbrennan]

The Ecoda 22 KHz works perfectly between the receiver and the motor. There is no apparent degradation of service or signal.

The other 22 KHz switch did not work at all.

 

[gillham]

The Ecoda 22 KHz works perfectly between the receiver and the motor. There is no apparent degradation of service or signal.

So the second dish is working well with good signal quality? Did you figure out the real length of that 2nd dish run based on the foot markings on the cable?

 

[jwwbrennan]

Everything has good signal.

Our first snow was covering it as quickly as I was placing it. I purchased a 40 meter run to go from the outside of the house (the switch) to the dish but I will be able to remove or roll up a couple of meters in the spring. The greater concern is the wind. It is a windy little place. The dish is stuck precariously on top of a post about fifteen feet up and it is not guy-wired into place yet. I wanted to get AMC21 properly before fastening it in too much. That will be next.

 

[jwwbrennan]

Gillham, there was one thing I forgot to mention...

I switched out the universal and replaced it with a regular linear on the non-motorized (second) dish. I did not see an obvious way to address the universal through the SonicView and a 22 KHz switch.

 

[Anole]

not out of steam yet

Gillham, there was one thing I forgot to mention...

I switched out the universal and replaced it with a regular linear on the non-motorized (second) dish. I did not see an obvious way to address the universal through the SonicView and a 22 KHz switch.

Yes, that was discussed in the very next post in the Switch FAQ thread.
It's a minor shortcoming most of us could live with.

Inserting a 2nd 4x1 diseqc switch on the path to your new dish, you could actually have four total LNBs out there.
... once the weather warms up. - :up