Seeking Antenna Gurus

[Mokanic]

Setup: (All signal components but antenna are newly added in the last week)

Outdoor Antenna (~20 foot) >>>> CM LTE Filter ->>>>> PreAmp (Channel Master CM-7777HD 17db / 30db) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Channel Master CM3414 4way spliiter (8db)>>>>>>
>>>TV
>>>Dish Hopper
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Happauge WinTV-dual HD

RabbitEars.Info

RabbitEars, where you can learn all about local, over-the-air TV channels.

www.rabbitears.info

OR

TV Fool

Currently have a CM antenna. Cannot remember the model. It is about 15 - 20 years old. Looks similar to the CM Advantage 60/100. It is directional and WAS rotatable. But, motor gone last week. Picking up 47 - 55 channels depending on tuner with about 43 - 48 usable channels. No large trees within 200 feet of signal path (then woods). Medium size tree on one side of signal path.

I now have it pointed and tuned to the Raleigh-Durham market area. But, I like the "down east" stations for news and first hand accounts for hurricane coverage and as a back-up to "my" local market. I may buy a new motor and stick with what I have. BUT, no harm in looking.

I ran across these two;

Antenna Direct DB8e (UHF only, but may get VHF high w/o a specific VHF di-pole) 70 mile (more expensive)
Antenna Direct C4-V-CJM (UHF/VHF) 70 mile - (I am certain 70 mile for UHF, but methinks VHF is shorter than that, 25 - 35)

Not the only ones I am comparing (Strong Signals has the Xtreme Signals HDB8X multi-directional) , but I cannot find out the technical differences between these two made by the same company. Other than no (1) VHF on DB8e, (2) ability to custom turn the DB8e and (3) size/looks.

I found the receiving pattern for the DB8e, but I cannot find something comparable for the C4-V-CJM.
Not complaining about my first world problem, but am looking to improve my "OTA lot in life".

Do the antenna gurus have any guidance on the technical differences between these two?
Any other antenna recommendations?


P.S. I really like the rabbitears.info site better than TVFool now. I found out through rabbitears that WNCT ch 9 applied to move from VHF-10 to high UHF-45 in 2012 (still pending?). This is one of the "down east" stations I am having trouble picking up lately, which I don't fully understand. They have been on VHF-10 since the beginning of DTV. I wonder if they changed direction of pattern or reduced power in the last year or so. A lot more info (too much??) which is easier to access.

TLDR version - need advice for antenna upgrade or replacement.

 

[907TECH]

The DB8E is a fine antenna. It will pick up VHF high stations, to some degree. It will also probably beat the CM on UHF. The Clearstream, let's just say you won't see many pros using them. The DB8E will smoke the Clearstream on UHF too, both have similar receive patterns, the DB8E will have a slightly narrower beam. I would fix the rotator, you will have better VHF that way.

 

[Trip]

I think we need a bit more information. Which stations do you receive now with the current antenna in its current position, versus which stations are you trying to add?

With regard to WNCT, they applied to move to 45 but the move was never granted by the FCC. In the repack, WNCT will move from channel 10 to 12. WNCT is currently adjacent to WTVD, which is quite a bit stronger and may be interfering with WNCT in your area. If this is the case, the repack will fix that problem because WTVD is moving from 11 to 9. When all is said and done, WTVD will be on 9 and WNCT on 12, eliminating the adjacency. If WNCT is your only problem child, you may want to just wait until July and see if the repack ultimately resolves your issue.

- Trip

 

[Mokanic]

907TECH - Thanks. I will take the advice in to serious consideration. I don't know which way I am going yet. But, per Trip I may need to wait until after the final repack happens. I know part of it got postponed because of the hurricane last year. But, I thought it would be done in Feb and not July.

Trip -

Antenna is currently situated ~280 - 290 degrees pointing W/NW.

Getting non-frustrating signals on these channels and associated sub channels (Some stronger than others. Some of the non pointed ones [19-1 and 43-1] are intermittent, but not terrible);

Channel (Virt / Real)	Callsign	Network	Xmitter Miles	Direction (True)	Direction (Magnetic)	Strength	Signal Margin (db)
5‑1 (17)	WRAL-TV	NBC	18.3	285.2	294.7	106.05	67.01
50‑1 (15)	WRAZ	FOX	18.3	285.2	294.7	106.02	67.19
22‑1 (18)	WLFL	CW	18.3	285.2	294.7	92.66	53.51
28‑1 (14)	WRDC	My	18.3	285.2	294.7	92.22	53.5
17‑1 (8)	WNCN	CBS	18.3	285.2	294.7	86.16	50.16
11‑1 (11)(>9)	WTVD	ABC	18.5	283.6	293.1	93.57	57.57
34‑1 (23)	WARZ-CD	RTV	7.3	223.7	233.2	88.54	48.88
43‑1 (7)	WHFL-CD	REL	19.5	148.7	158.2	61.89	25.89
19‑1 (28)	WUNM-TV	PBS	60.3	124.8	134.3	55.77	15.63
7‑1 (34)	WITN-TV	NBC	49	109.6	119.1	85.39	44.71
25‑1 (25)	WUNK-TV	PBS	34.5	95.9	105.4	60.75	20.9
47‑1 (32)	WRPX-TV	ION	16	13.6	23.1	100.50	59.99
62‑1 (32)	WFPX-TV	IONPlus	16	13.6	23.1	100.50	59.99

34-1 (23) is received on two of three tuners. The WinTV10 does not see this channel. I am assuming there is some technical reason why (with WinTV10 tuner).

Still looking to reliably receive these;

Channel (Virt / Real)	Callsign	Network	Xmitter Miles	Direction (True)	Direction (Magnetic)	Strength	Signal Margin (db)
14‑1 (19)	WYDO	FOX	60.3	124.8	134.3	58.77	19.52
12‑1 (12)	WCTI-TV	ABC	60.3	124.8	134.3	49.23	13.23
9‑1 (10) (>12)	WNCT-TV	CBS	48.9	109.6	119.1	61.85	25.85

I can get a signal from WNCT occasionally, but not consistently with current fixed setup. Before, I would slightly tweak the antenna when I knew I "needed" the down east channels. The tuners pickup 14-1, but unable to get a lock on the signal (~50 or less)

Also picking up 54.1 and 40.1. Both are Hispanic and I don't include those in the spreadsheet.

Updated my spreadsheet to reflect your new info per WNCT & WTVD. Thanks.

Thinking out loud..............
...........that begs the question if ch12 is going back to UHF xmit channel 48, since ch9 is going to 12? They are in the same direction, so ch12 must be moving back to 48 or another xmit channel. I hope 48. I could pick their signal up easier there.

Thanks again for both of your insights.

 

[Mokanic]

Trip

Just saw WCTI going to xmit ch10 from xmit ch12 in the "linked station" section of rabbitears.info
Answers my outloud thinking from previous post.
Thanks.

Thinking out loud EDIT: Which begs the question why are those two stations just doing a xmit channel swap???????....... Both are Hi-VHF.....in the same market........two different owners............must be one channel interfering with some other nearby station violating the 120 degree FCC rule.....or something.......

Looking at other information.............overload....calling it a night................

 

[Trip]

Yes, WCTI is going to 10. The repack moved WWBT in Richmond from 12 to 10, and to maintain the pre-existing interference relationship, the system swapped WNCT and WCTI accordingly.

Looking at your RabbitEars report, I think you would be best served waiting. WYDO is a lost cause; don't bother with it. Once WUNC moves their channel 30 translator in Garner to channel 19, WYDO will be unusable to you. That just leaves WNCT and WCTI, both of which are adjacent to WTVD and are probably impacted by it. Most receivers can handle signal strength differences of about 33 dB or less on adjacent channels. WTVD is about 40 dB stronger than WNCT and 55 dB stronger than WCTI. WNCT is likely to improve with the repack since it will no longer be adjacent to WTVD, but WCTI will retain its adjacency.

EDIT: I wanted to note that WUVC may be Spanish on 40-1 and 40-2, but has English-language subchannels on 40-3 through 40-6 that may be worth watching. WRTD-CD 54-1 is channel sharing on WRAZ, so if you receive WRAZ, you receive both.

- Trip

 

[Mokanic]

Yes, WCTI is going to 10. The repack moved WWBT in Richmond from 12 to 10, and to maintain the pre-existing interference relationship, the system swapped WNCT and WCTI accordingly.

Looking at your RabbitEars report, I think you would be best served waiting. WYDO is a lost cause; don't bother with it. Once WUNC moves their channel 30 translator in Garner to channel 19, WYDO will be unusable to you. That just leaves WNCT and WCTI, both of which are adjacent to WTVD and are probably impacted by it. Most receivers can handle signal strength differences of about 33 dB or less on adjacent channels. WTVD is about 40 dB stronger than WNCT and 55 dB stronger than WCTI. WNCT is likely to improve with the repack since it will no longer be adjacent to WTVD, but WCTI will retain its adjacency.

EDIT: I wanted to note that WUVC may be Spanish on 40-1 and 40-2, but has English-language subchannels on 40-3 through 40-6 that may be worth watching. WRTD-CD 54-1 is channel sharing on WRAZ, so if you receive WRAZ, you receive both.

- Trip

Thanks. I believe I will stand pat at this time and wait as you suggested.

RE: 40-1; while I was perusing the site, I found the NICE subchannel page for all the markets and saw that information and have now updated and injected that data into my local spreadsheet. Thanks.

I also noticed on the page where you give channel tech information (forget the exact nomenclature used, it was the info you had posted about not capturing anymore in a post somewhere in here) why I have always liked WCTI's smooth picture. It is being broadcast at almost 60fps. Good info. Still working out the total limit per channel/freq. I will need to do a search to see if the freq. limit has been mentioned and understand more about that.

I found the library and am trying to "edumacate" myself.