Sky Angel Plans to Charge Lifelong Subscribers for "Special Secular" Channels

[McGuyver]

Some have expressed sincere and legitimate concern over whether it would be proper to initiate legal action against Sky Angel. We tend to wear our denominational glasses when we read the Bible however if we were to wear any glasses at all I would suggest a Jewish tint so that one can recognize the setting of the Word with respect to Jewish life and history. Acknowledged theologian Karl Barth said that “the Bible is a Jewish book. It cannot be read, understood, or expounded unless we are to become Jews.” I don’t think Barth became a literal Jew so I suggest he meant to read it as a Jew.

The Word of GOD is for ALL of mankind, God's Law existed since the beginning before man and Jew. Whether Jew, Greek or Gentile, all can understand in the same way as the Scriptures are all TRUTH. God is same yesterday, today and forever and His Word is everlasting, never changing.

God never said to interpret His Word in your own way according to nationality, creed or whatever. Of course, we have the right and privilege to practice religion in our own way according to American rights but that too is controversial among many.

Without doubt, Sky Angel is corrupt, most likely managed by secular people or wanna-be/hypocrite christians, not to judge them but the truth is; "we shall know them by their fruits!" The bottom line is that we can still agree regardless of our faiths.

 

[elder]

From a 6/23/05 Sky Angel press release:

NAPLES, Fla. – As lawmakers urge cable and satellite operators to provide “family-friendly” programming tiers, Donetta Dalton is glad that the nation’s third direct broadcast satellite television provider, Sky Angel, has answered the call for family-friendly TV by not just committing one programming tier but rather its entire multi-channel satellite system to being a friend to the family.

Sky Angel, which for nine years has been delivering to homes nationwide multiple TV and radio channels of Christian-inspirational and family programming, is enhancing its 33-channel family-friendly lineup by adding Hallmark Channel, Hallmark Movie Channel and FOX News Channel, and soon HGTV. Dalton couldn’t be happier about the additions. It means she can finally get 24-hour news, family entertainment and faith-based programming all on one system without having to get other channels she would rather not have.

Dalton said she used to subscribe to regular cable. “I could not believe what was on the cable stations,” said the Petersburg, Va. resident. “Not a good choice for my family. We cancelled it within two months. We are so thankful for Sky Angel.”

“This is the kind of thing we often hear from families,” said Sky Angel CEO Rob Johnson. “Parents want a complete lineup of channels that they can enjoy with the family or that they won’t feel uncomfortable having on when their children are in the room. And they don’t want to have to pay for certain channels with programming that they find overtly offensive to get a few family-friendly ones. They desire a TV service that reflects and understands their values. We believe Sky Angel is meeting those needs.”

Sky Angel has always been dedicated to family-friendly programming, but viewer demand motivated the satellite operator to enhance its system of faith-based channels to include mainstream news and family-oriented entertainment networks as well. And Sky Angel’s monthly subscription fee of under $15 for 33 TV and radio channels makes the package attractive to families who cannot afford to pay high subscription rates.

While Sky Angel already carried family programs from PAX TV and Safe TV, an independent family channel, the addition of Hallmark Movie Channel, which counts Sky Angel as its first national distribution outlet; Hallmark Channel; HGTV and FOX News will provide family viewers a wider range of news and entertainment options that they desire, said Johnson.

About Sky Angel
Owned and operated by Dominion Video Satellite Inc., Sky Angel delivers 33 TV and radio channels of Christian-inspirational programming, family entertainment and news nationwide to homes, colleges, churches and businesses equipped with a small satellite dish. Dominion was one of the first nine companies to apply to the Federal Communications Commission for a high-power DBS license in 1981 and is the sole surviving DBS pioneer from that first round of applicants. Consumers can request a free video about Sky Angel at www.skyangel.com or 1-800-SKY-ANGEL.

 

[elder]

The Word of GOD is for ALL of mankind, God's Law existed since the beginning before man and Jew. Whether Jew, Greek or Gentile, all can understand in the same way as the Scriptures are all TRUTH. God is same yesterday, today and forever and His Word is everlasting, never changing.

God never said to interpret His Word in your own way according to nationality, creed or whatever. Of course, we have the right and privilege to practice religion in our own way according to American rights but that too is controversial among many.

First let me say this is not an attempt to hijack the thread. Instead it is further explanation of my position regarding seeking resolution of the disagreement with Sky Angel in or outside of a believer venue. This writing is from an article I wrote some time ago but I feel is applicable to my position:

God does not break or abandon covenants. A careful study of scripture reveals that God builds on covenants instead of replacing them. God has established four covenants with the Jewish people and none with gentile nations except as grafted in through Messiah. The four covenants are 1) the Abrahamic Covenant, 2) the Mosaic Covenant, 3) the Davidic Covenant and 4) the Messianic Covenant which though called the New Covenant can be seen as a renewal or fulfillment of preceding covenants.

In Leviticus we read that God established seven feasts and commanded Israel to keep them forever. These feasts are Passover, Unleavened Bread, First Fruits, Pentecost, Trumpets, Atonement and Tabernacles. The feasts are to remind Israel of what God has done for them as well as serve as a shadow of things to come. The four spring feasts predicted the Messiah (Jesus) and were fulfilled by him to the day. He was slain on Passover, buried on Unleavened Bread, resurrected on First Fruits and gave the Holy Spirit on Pentecost. The fall feasts are yet to be fulfilled, but one can see how they prophesy as to Messiah’s return. Trumpets (the last trump), Atonement (judgment and salvation of the Jews) and Tabernacles (earthly reign of Messiah).

This is an argument of semantics but in reality Messiah did not die for gentiles. Instead he died as the Passover sacrifice for God’s chosen people the Jews. I say not for gentiles directly since they had no sacrificial system given by God to cover their sins so the sacrificial lamb had no meaning. However, I will not leave it there since (according to scripture) by accepting Yeshua (Jesus) as Messiah gentiles become wild branches grafted into the olive tree. Jews as they accept Him as Messiah will be natural branches grafted in.

Now the problem today is that we have a variety of denominations and religions created by man’s reasoning seemingly ignoring God’s callings and purpose for his chosen people; thus without regard for God’s stated plan for one new man, comprised of Jew and gentile. So as one reads the Bible a Jewish book about the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob written in a distinctively Jewish setting for a Jewish people one must make the decision; does one trust God or man? If one chooses to trust God he must accept that God changes not so when reading His word one must not do so through denominational or religious glasses. If any glasses at all maybe with a Jewish tint so that one can recognize the setting of the Word with respect to Jewish life and history. Acknowledged theologian Karl Barth said that “the Bible is a Jewish book. It cannot be read, understood, or expounded unless we are to become Jews.”

 

[catkoko]

Better business Bureau contact info, preserve your rights now

You may file a complain against sky angel online at www.bbbonline.com

If you prefer snail mail:
BBB of West Florida, Inc.
(Clearwater, FL)
2653 McCormick Drive
Clearwater, FL 33759
Phone: (727)535-5522
Fax: (727)539-6301
Email: info@bbbwestflorida.org
Web: http://www.bbbwestflorida.org

I suggest including something along the following lines to try and cover ALL lifetimers, rather than fight them one at a time

from lifetime agreement:

4.) The primary source of funding for the Dominion DBS Television and Radio System is expected to come from individual subscribers paying either an ongoing monthly subscription fee or by prepaying a lump-sum subscription for a period of years, During the first 30 months of operation DVS offered lifelong subscriptions for a one-time payment which is being discontinued for any new subscribers, For those who purchased the lifelong subscription it will last for the operating lifetime of the Dominion Sky y Angel domestic U,S, DBS service and for the lifetime of the subscriber and his or her spouse without any further monthly subscription fees and includes a minimum of 32 television and radio channels selected at Dominion's sole discretion, Once a lifelong subscription is activated to receive Sky Angel programming it is non-assignable and non-transferable,

As you can see I am guaranteed NO further fee and a minimum of 32 channels. SA will clearly be in violation on both counts.


Your Desired Resolution:
I want any and all channels removed from lifetime subscribers including myself restored, effective immediately at NO COST. There will be NO modification of my original agreement in order to receive those channels. Furthermore I expect to receive a minimum of 32 channels as per the lifetime agreement. In addition I expect compensation for each day my service was turned off. I also want a signed statement from sky angel that they will cease forevermore all efforts to breach my contract.

 

[catkoko]

special 4 shut off? Did you mail paper?

Well did sky angel shut off anyones "special 4"?

If so did you send back he paper w/smart card and receiver #s?

 

[Pepper]

oops, knew i was forgetting to do something. that's what they get making their deadline the same as Uncle Sam.

And I'm still getting them.

 

[catkoko]

me too

I chose not to send back the paper. why help them to shut off my service?
so far still have service but am sure they will get around to finding us sooner or later

 

[Wescopc]

sent in papers 5 weeks ago (said no to having the channels) - still have channels.
Bob

 

[ShaneLinder]

I sent the paper back the day after I got it. I still haven't received a bill yet. I called them last week and they said they would be sending me one in May.

 

[jegrant]

FWIW, I can also say as a Lifetime subscriber, I sent in the paperwork, indicating I did not want the extra package (since I use SA* as an add-on to my regular Cable TV) and yet, here it is May 2 and I still have the four channel "Special Secular" package.

 

[andrews777]

We sent it back saying we would pay for the channels (my wife wants to do so since that is all we get beyond basic SkyAngel. (TV reception is quite poor.)

We did not fill out the receiver information.

No change or notice as of now.

Brad

 

[catkoko]

won't pay despite wanting them, BBB update

I won't pay them AGAIN, I already paid for all channels with my lifetime payment. what they are doing is wrong and people are being forced to give in or have less channels. I did get a respinse from sky angel today regarding by BBB complaint. I sent them a copy of it myself. here is there answer to me: (note that I finally got a name signed)

Dear Mrs ****,
We have received your email and regret that you were not satisfied with our response to your questions. Thank you the information you forwarded regarding your Better Business Bureau formal complaint. When we receive this complaint directly from the Better Business Bureau, will respond immediately.
Our mission is and always has been to provide a platform for the Gospel to be preached to the world. Sky Angel depends on your prayers and support in order to continue our work toward accomplishing this mission.
Thank you again for your time and for giving us the opportunity to respond to your complaint.

God Bless,

Mary
Sky Angel
customerrelations@skyangel.com

 

[ShaneLinder]

Pretty classy reply.

 

[TNGTony]

Yes. It was a very classy way to say F.U. We got your money and we are yanking channels from you and only you at will unless you pay more!

See ya
Tony <can you tell I'm not happy either?

 

[jegrant]

I'm willing to withhold judgment. They have not removed any "special secular" channels from my subscription yet, even though I returned the form indicating I didn't want to pay for them.

 

[catkoko]

That is fine. I didn't send in the form as they had no right to mail it in the first place. I certainly wasn't going to help them shut off my service.

It doesn't appear they have turned off anyone. Family land is unfortunately gone. Pretty soon its going to be all radio and music videos on SA If they have changed their mind it would be nice if they informed the lifetimers. In fact they should have made the correction as soon as the terms of the lifetime contract was brought to their attention. Instead they stood behind their decision, saying basically sorry but pay up or lose them!

They are very difficult people to deal with. I finally got an email that actually had a persons name on it to refer back to! The local Satellite installer has had more problems with them than any other company. This has been going on for a few years according to him.

Right about now I feel like just saying give me back my lifetime fee and leave me alone. hey, maybe that is not a bad idea. if they breach (turn off special 4, under 32 channels etc)the contract they should at least be liable for our original fee and possibly equipment costs? ...............

 

[rach214]

hey, maybe that is not a bad idea. if they breach (turn off special 4, under 32 channels etc)the contract they should at least be liable for our original fee and possibly equipment costs? ...............

I was told that they are not breaking the terms and conditions because in Oct '05 (or somewhere around then) they sent out an updated terms and conditions which include this statement:

6. Prior Agreements

We reserve the right to change the terms and conditions of your service. If we make any changes, we will send you a copy of your new Customer Agreement containing its effective date. You may always cancel your service if you do not accept any such terms or conditions. If you do cancel, you may be charged a deactivation fee. If you decide not to cancel your service after receiving a new Customer Agreement, your continued receipt of Sky Angel from us will constitute acceptance of the changed terms and conditions.

Also, you realize that they aren't going to do anything that is going to be able to get them sued? They may be a Christian company, but they are a corporation and they do have lawyers on staff. You don't think they analyzed every angle of this change before it got put into effect? I wouldn't hold your breath hoping that Sky Angel is going to refund you anything, I know from contacting them that Lifelong subscriptions are non-refundable.

When I contacted SA they told me they haven't shut off the secular channels yet, but I was told its more due to processing the paperwork still and organizing the removal of channels through Dish Network and it will happen in the near future.

Anyway, this news is 6 weeks old now and its obviously not going to change. For those of you that contacted your local BBB good luck with that, as stated above they reserve the right to change the terms and conditions. Case closed as it were.

 

[lumpkin666]

Concerning the above statement - just because their documents say something doesn't make it legal. Sometimes the job of a lawyer is to make things seem one way, when it is not necessarily so. As a matter of fact, even though it may appear to be legally correct, only a judge can say for 100% (actually only something like a supreme court judge [appeals?] can really say for 100% certain that something is legal)

I guess what I'm saying is - I've actually been in court with another party who was actually a multi-billion dollar company, and their subsequent customer agreements clearly would produce an outcome in their favor. However, with some research on various topics and a handful case law, the company ended up folding rather than going to court and risking setting a precidence that would perminently adversely affect them in a huge way. They knew that their agreements were not as solid as they put on to be, but were willing to take the matter to court anyhow - until they realized that the little guy wasn't as stupid as they thought.

I'm almost 100% certain that SkyAngel's updated customer agreements are not binding upon lifetime subscribers, as they have the affect of hugely changing the intent and the value of the original agreement, they have no way of proving that anyone received the updated document (since no billing or address correction process exists for lifetime subscribers), and the fact that they indicate that you would both have to relinquish a service that you had already paid for if you did not agree with their new terms, as well as the fact that they indicate that you could be charged for not agreeing to their adverse modifications to the comsumer agreement (also thereby operaterating in bad faith).

 

[elder]

I'm almost 100% certain that SkyAngel's updated customer agreements are not binding upon lifetime subscribers, as they have the affect of hugely changing the intent and the value of the original agreement, they have no way of proving that anyone received the updated document (since no billing or address correction process exists for lifetime subscribers), and the fact that they indicate that you would both have to relinquish a service that you had already paid for if you did not agree with their new terms, as well as the fact that they indicate that you could be charged for not agreeing to their adverse modifications to the comsumer agreement (also thereby operaterating in bad faith).

I cannot think of any way the terms of a lifetime agreement can be altered without mutual consent. I received a copy of the updated agreement, but was not concerned as it did not address lifetime subscribers anywhere in the document and if one were to assume for a moment that was applicable how about if you don't like it "You may always cancel your service if you do not accept any such terms or conditions. If you do cancel, you may be charged a deactivation fee." It just doesn't compute. I also wasn't concerned because I was dealing with a Christian company and didn't think I had to continually look over my shoulder. It appears that Sky Angel will continue to bully us unless we find a better way to draw national attention to the problem. Somewhere there must be a lawyer who is a lifetime subscriber, if we could just find him. Also, the not applicable agreement mentions the American Arbitration Association for binding arbitration. Does anyone know any thing about this organization? Is it legit, or is it in Sky Angel's pocket?

 

[lumpkin666]

The American Arbitration Association is a legit organization that is utilized by many corporate and government organizations to arbitrate disputes without taking them to court. The arbitration association can be a useful tool for individuals because arbitration can be done in a more relaxed environment without the formalities of court. It can also end up being beneficial to companies because it is cheap, and because the arbitrators are normally less formalized and more apt to allow the company's big lawyers to have their way. They also don't get the same exposure to courts, same penalties, etc. And there's no jury trials in arbitration - oh and arbitration is normally binding and therefore not open to the same level of formal appeals as a traditional court.