You just had to do it, didn't you?
I'll try to be patient, and I'm not being sarcastic here.
You're wrong - period.
Let's get this straight. All the variables you mention are completely controlled by Dish. Do you understand what I'm saying? The firmware (software), board revisions, cards, etc. Every single one is controlled by Dish - and only Dish. Nobody else. Ever. Human factor is absolutely not a variable in this area because proper testing and QA procedures should eliminate variability caused by human interaction. Ever heard if Six Sigma? DMAIC, baby! (Define, Measure, Analyze, Improve, Control). Believe me, I'm in the business and you couldn't be more wrong. Since you're in the SW business (as am I) how about ITIL? Maybe Rational? All of those processes are designed to do one thing - provide a high quality product. Different coding "styles" and "techniques" are the reason we have standards in application development, and why we have integration testing. So, for this item if you're defending the sw because "people" have hands in writing it, you really shouldn't be in a commercial SW development market. No insult intended, but we spend a heck of a lot of time insuring that we don't do what Dish does. And, we're successful at it. And, we don't control all the variables that Dish does.
As for how the units are treated, I'm personally dismissing that completely. Way too many problems with people having them plugged into online UPS, in areas where all other (even more sensitive type) devices happily work away. No way.
Now, for the ridiculous part, HOW THE H*&L CAN YOU COMPARE DEVELOPING THE 921 TO PC'S? Are you REALLY in SW development? Let me ask you some questions for consideration.
1) How many different system boards from DIFFERENT manufacturers, using different graphics adapters of different technologies from different manufacturers and ethernet adapters of different chipsets from different manufacturers does MS have to release their OS for? How many different board revisions do you think exist for each one of these examples? Dish software only has to work for hardware Dish designed and sold directly. No modifications.
2) How many different programs, applications, patches, components, etc, etc, etc, does the average person install on their PC? How many do OTHER people install on your PC (spyware, popups, virus, etc)? Dish software only has to work for hardware and software directly designed, sold and installed by Dish. No modifications.
3) How many people do you see carrying their 921 around in a flimsy leather or vinyl bag, yanking it out on airplanes, sending it through metal detectors, etc, etc. Hmmmmm.
I won't even begin to get into the car thing. Your analogy is wrong. It is not accurate. It has no bearing. It should not be spoken in public without fear of death by stoning. OK, I'm joking. About the death by stoning thing.
Let me put it this way. If I didn't need to worry about releasing applications that needed to worry about multiple browser types, different java runtime engines, ActiveX controls, operating system patches on client machines, internet induced network latency, non-standard port assignments in rules based firewalls, on machines that people can install whatever the h*#l they want any time, etc, etc, etc..... Well, let's just say that I'd be getting a lot more sleep. To put it simply, if I had control over my entire environment (including every single one of my customers) like Dish does, I'd be jumping for joy.
Nobody should ever, under any circumstances, ever, compare the reliability of a Dish product to a PC. There is absolutely no comparison whatsoever for any reason in any case. Don't even think about comparing Dish products to Windows. Windows is SO much higher quality considering all the variables out there (not to mention that the biggest problem they have is people TRYING to break it - not use it) that it's not eve worth bringing up. I also don't want to hear the OS2 song and dance. Or the Linux, etc. If you want to debate operating systems, fine. But, we're debating quality from Dish. Don't mix the two. You'll lose.
Let's also not compare the quality with other consumer products. How many $500+ DVD players are that unreliable? Name one. How many Home Theater AVRs are that unreliable? Name one.
I hope that's clear enough. I appreciate you're not intending to defend Dish, but that's what your message is.
SatinKzo said:
But there are many variables in the numerous 921's. From the 3 I have seen, there is different firmware, different board revisions etc. Heck I had 5 811's in 9 months, they all literally broke (stopped turning on, lost programming and could not be reprogrammed, lost DVI output). Every single one of the 811's was different in some way. The biggest being the mainboard differences. A
Any I still stand by the human factor cause not all people treat the units the same. Some don't ventilate them well, some put them on subwoofers (viibration and HD's is not a good thing as we all know). Some plug them into faulty power lines. So see that is the human factor I am talking about. Let's not even start on the human factor involved when doing the programming. Who knows how many different hands and coding techniques have had a part in the 921. I know from years of programming (I am sure there are many others here too) that a programmer's style is unique and can easily cause problems within the same source with another programmer's code.
It is the same as PC's and cars(again for the example). Some people never take care of their car but get pissed when things break. PC's are fine out of the box more times than not, but people still break them. We can go back and forth on this for days I am sure. I see your point and if you just read what I am saying, you can see where I am coming from.
Again, I am in no way defending the 921, it's track record is horrible and as with most cosumer electronics (PC's, DVD, TV's etc) we have, from some reason, come to accept mediocre products. For heaven's sake, look as Windows. That software has been crap since day 1, but is was less crappy then other stuff at the time for the daily user. Granted, I like OS/2, but not many others did outside the techie area to make it profitable. So basically dish, like many companies appears to be doing a feature/cost analysys similar to supply/demand and hitting a sweet spot. Making products that people on this forum are mad at, but the majority of the public thinks are fine and are used to bugs in the software.
If you really want one bad, get the 921, if there is a Costco nearby they are or were pretty cheap. Or google dish net and find your local retailer, or click on the dishstore.net ad at the top of the page... I have had one since Nov... and really like it. It is a bit buggy but...Who knows when the 942 will come out and it will be leaseable. And you do know that any of the current Hd pvrs including the Hd tivo and the coming 942 use mpeg 2. Both providers E*and D* have announced upcoming Hd will be mpeg4 requiring new receivers...
