1. Another Team Summit in the books!

    Thanks to the generosity of a number of our members SatelliteGuys will be covering DISH Networks Team Summit Event from Phoenix, Arizona!

    CLICK HERE for our Team Summit 2019 Coverage!

    CLICK HERE to see our 2019 DISH Team Summit Recap Video! Thanks for being part of SatelliteGuys!
    CLICK THE X IN THE TOP RIGHT CORNER OF THE BOX TO DISMISS THIS MESSAGE
    Dismiss Notice

Stackable switches

Discussion in 'Free To Air (FTA) Discussion' started by comfortably_numb, Jan 30, 2019.

  1. comfortably_numb

    comfortably_numb Topic Starter Dogs have owners, cats have staff
    Pub Member / Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2011
    Posts:
    6,631
    Likes Received:
    6,550
    Location:
    Missouri/Kansas
    raydio likes this.
  2. Keith Brannen

    Keith Brannen SatelliteGuys Pro

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2006
    Posts:
    1,539
    Likes Received:
    166
    Location:
    Southwestern Ontario
    Brct203, have you tried it this way:

    Receiver ---- 4x1 ---- 8x1 ---- LNBs
     
  3. raydio

    raydio K4ECP
    Supporting Founder Pub Member / Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2005
    Posts:
    681
    Likes Received:
    531
    Location:
    Rio Rancho, NM
    Oh come on CN, where's your sense of adventure -
     
    comfortably_numb and Brct203 like this.
  4. Brct203

    Brct203 SatelliteGuys Pro

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2016
    Posts:
    695
    Likes Received:
    630
    Location:
    Connecticut
    yes, I had tried that too, last year, no luck there either
     
  5. Brct203

    Brct203 SatelliteGuys Pro

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2016
    Posts:
    695
    Likes Received:
    630
    Location:
    Connecticut
    yes I agree, that makes sense. I just don't see any control for that in the receiver, unless I'm missing something.
     
  6. Titanium

    Titanium AI6US
    Lifetime Supporter

    Joined:
    May 23, 2013
    Posts:
    6,120
    Likes Received:
    6,101
    Location:
    Meadow Vista, Northern California
    This is why I love tuner cards / USB. Software with user settings allow cascading sequence to be set for any cascading order required to establish the signal path.

    Enigma2 images also offer greater user adjustable settings with 22KHz / DiSEqC commands.
     
  7. a33

    a33 SatelliteGuys Pro

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2015
    Posts:
    307
    Likes Received:
    188
    Location:
    netherlands europe
    Brct203 :
    So the question is in your setup with Rec -- 1.1 switch -- 1.0 switch -- LNBs:

    When you switch to 5/8 and 2/4 (as in your example), where is the output voltage measurable? Is it on port 1 of the 1.1 switch, or port 1 of the 1.0 switch? Or somewhere else?

    Greetz,
    A33
     
  8. Brct203

    Brct203 SatelliteGuys Pro

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2016
    Posts:
    695
    Likes Received:
    630
    Location:
    Connecticut
    well, that's definitely a good question. I have not checked. I will check that in the next few days

    Thanks
     
  9. Brct203

    Brct203 SatelliteGuys Pro

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2016
    Posts:
    695
    Likes Received:
    630
    Location:
    Connecticut
    In order to dig a bit further in this Diseqc stacking/cascading troubleshooting, I'm considering building the Arduino-based Diseqc decoder that KE4EST published in 2016.

    Arduino DiSEqC Decoder

    Michael, I'm a bit confused as to what pins to use on the Arduino, as your diagram shows "Out to Arduino X1-1 and X1-2".

    I'm guessing that the section around the LM567 is optional and is only to detect if the receiver is sending the 22kHz tone (not as part of Diseqc protocol). Also I'm guessing that the part with the 7805 is only there to power the circuitry from the 13V/18V power coming from the receiver. Am I correct? I'm not sure what the X2 connection to Arduino is for...

    thanks in advance!
     
  10. a33

    a33 SatelliteGuys Pro

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2015
    Posts:
    307
    Likes Received:
    188
    Location:
    netherlands europe
    Ah, that would be a nice-to-have, a diseqc decoder! :)
    To easily check diseqc command order (do motor-commands get sent before or after diseqc 1.1/1.0 commands?),
    to check raw diseqc commands (there are, for instance, two sets of GotoX motor command types, see here: USALS/ GotoX; Raw diseqc commands ),
    or just to play with..... ;)

    As with your setup, the diseqc commands don't seem to be the problem, I think, as with the other switch left out the one switch always functions right.

    Have you tried this test already?
    If voltage on 1.1 switch, port 1: then the 1.1 switch did reset.
    If voltage on 1.0 switch, port 1: then the 1.0 switch stayed/switched to default, so maybe the command didn't reach the switch.

    greetz,
    A33
     
  11. Brct203

    Brct203 SatelliteGuys Pro

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2016
    Posts:
    695
    Likes Received:
    630
    Location:
    Connecticut
    An initial test (connecting 4 LEDs to the cascaded 1.0 switch) indicates that it's getting the commands properly, and switches to the correct port. But the problems start after that, when switching back and forth. I need to make a more systematic test and document each step, and hopefully that will help find a pattern.
     
  12. a33

    a33 SatelliteGuys Pro

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2015
    Posts:
    307
    Likes Received:
    188
    Location:
    netherlands europe
    So, maybe you have the problem that the 1.0 switch sometimes is still busy with the starting up (after getting initial power from the switching of the 1.1 switch), and while starting up is not receiving the command to switch to port 2/3/4?
    In that case: Is the problem gone when you switch first to port1 of the diseqc 1.0 switch, and only then to a port 2/3/4?

    (just to try a lucky shot...)

    Greetz,
    A33
     
  13. Brct203

    Brct203 SatelliteGuys Pro

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2016
    Posts:
    695
    Likes Received:
    630
    Location:
    Connecticut
    ok, so this is the test I did:

    connected the 1.1 9-port switch to the Amiko, then hooked up red LEDs (with a resistor) to each inputs of the 1.1 switch, then connected port 4 to the output of the 1.0 switch, with yellow LEDs to its 4 inputs - see the picture.

    with DiSEqC 1.0 set to "Disable" and using DiSEqC 1.1 port selection, I can switch through the 8 ports, no problem. When on Port4, Port 1 of the DiSEqc 1.0 also lights up, as one would expect (as it defaults to port 1).

    If I set the receiver to DiSEqc 1.1 port 4 and then select a port other than 1 for DiSEqc 1.0, sometimes it work, sometimes the matching LED blinks for about 1/10th of a second, and then changes to DiSEqc 1.1 port 8 .

    When it has jumped to port 8, even though the receiver is still set to DiSEqc 1.1 port 4 and DiSEqc 1.0 port 2 (or 3 or 4), if I leave it on DiSEqc 1.1 port4 and then change DiSEqc 1.0 to "disabled" and back to a port, then it's back to normal on that port. But then if I change the DiSEqc 1.0 port, there's a good chance that it will flip again to light up only the LED for DiSEqc 1.1 port 8. Are you confused yet?

    so my take is that the DiSEqc 1.1 switch is not liking what the receiver sends when it changes a DiSEqc 1.0 port. Now the $100 question: is the problem with what the receiver is sending, or is the switch not reading a proper chain of DiSEqc commands?

    That's what I'm hoping that the DiSEqc analyzer might help answering
     

    Attached Files:

    a33 likes this.
  14. Titanium

    Titanium AI6US
    Lifetime Supporter

    Joined:
    May 23, 2013
    Posts:
    6,120
    Likes Received:
    6,101
    Location:
    Meadow Vista, Northern California
    Brct203 , Several years ago Magic Static gifted a DiSEqC reader that he had built. I would be happy to short-term loan it to you for your testing. :)

    I use it frequently and must put out another BIG THANK YOU to Magic Static for an awesome testing tool that I often use on the bench!
     
  15. Magic Static

    Magic Static FTA Geek
    Staff Member HERE TO HELP YOU! Lifetime Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2010
    Posts:
    6,513
    Likes Received:
    3,482
    Location:
    Montana
    Brct203 , if you are inclined to build a simple DiSEqC decoder/logger, the one I built is descibed here. N0QBH Free to Air Satellite PIC Projects
    It can be made with either a 2x16 or 4x20 display. Hint: Make sure the resistors in the Zero Cross Detection circuit are within 1% tolerance of each other.
     
  16. Brct203

    Brct203 SatelliteGuys Pro

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2016
    Posts:
    695
    Likes Received:
    630
    Location:
    Connecticut
    Hi Brian, thank you very much for the offer! Let me try first to see if I can get the Arduino one together and working (I already have a few Arduino boards). If not, I'll happily take you up on your offer.
     
    comfortably_numb likes this.
  17. a33

    a33 SatelliteGuys Pro

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2015
    Posts:
    307
    Likes Received:
    188
    Location:
    netherlands europe
    Good testing! And yes, I am a bit confused by the data.
    The fact that only port 8 is chosen is odd. I had a likewise issue with a 8/1 Hama/Axing switch, that on any motor command (not being GotoNn from 1 to 7, it turned out only later) switched to port 8! But, in fact, that switch was meant that way, it turned out; and you are not sending motor commands to your switch.....

    Switching to another diseqc 1.1 port, and then back to port 4 again, will not restore the switches's positions again, I presume; as then you would again need the diseqc 1.0 command. So that cannot be a workaround... :(

    My two cents guess would be: it's the switch.

    greetz,
    A33
     
    Brct203 likes this.
  18. Keith Brannen

    Keith Brannen SatelliteGuys Pro

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2006
    Posts:
    1,539
    Likes Received:
    166
    Location:
    Southwestern Ontario
    Brct203, first off, great way to do the tests with LEDs!

    Secondly, why port 4 on the 8x1 for the 4x1 to be attached to? I would try port 1 on the 8x1, and see what happens, and whether you get the same errors.

    Also, you might want to try this, on all the ports without the 4x1, set the 1.0 switch to 1/4 (instead of disabled).
     
    Brct203 likes this.
  19. a33

    a33 SatelliteGuys Pro

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2015
    Posts:
    307
    Likes Received:
    188
    Location:
    netherlands europe
    If he just has 11 LNBs to switch to, he can connect the 4/1 switch to port 8 of the 1.1 switch. I guess that won't give any problems, as the "unwanted" switching to port 8 is then not unwanted anymore. :)

    Greetz,
    A33
     
    Brct203 likes this.
  20. Brct203

    Brct203 SatelliteGuys Pro

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2016
    Posts:
    695
    Likes Received:
    630
    Location:
    Connecticut
    I will try both of those suggestions and let you know the results
     

Separate names with a comma.

More...