SuperDisc Alternative

[JWHITE]

Ok, I got my 105 setup working.

It took me a week to find the old FSS LNB I took off of an old Nebulink Internet dish setup from two and a half years ago. The LNB is an Eagle Aspen 1700. This is a single output KU band FSS LNB that does normal voltage switching between horiz and vert (like any DISH Legacy LNB). I am using this with a 76cm Winegard (measures 31" wide x 34" tall) dish.

www.eagleaspen.com shows this LNB and also a dual version if needed.

I hooked it up to my 501 to get everything aimed. Signal stength was 62 even though this dish is partially blocked by my Starband dish. I calculated the look angles via Satmaster Pro Demo I downloaded. After I had 105 locked in, I took one OUTPUT of my SW64 and the OUTPUT of the FSS LNB into the INPUTS of an SW21 I have. I hooked the OUTPUT of the SW21 into my 6000.

I ran a switch test checking the Superdish/129 box. This ran a 50 switch test and foung all 4 satellites (119/110/61.5/105).

I only need one receiver to have 105 for now as I want HD stuff. My locals come from 110 and 61.5.

This switch setup is supposed to be legal for the 6000, the 301, 501 and 3900. Look at the 4 Sat Cascade section of the document at:
http://www.switchinfo.info/dnswitches.html

I am doing this because all but one of my receivers is Legacy only and I don't want to buy bunches of adapters and new switches until the HDPVR and HD content battle settles between DTV and DISH. For now, this was a zero cost solution for me until decision time sometime next year.

Feel free to ask additional questions.

Jay White

 

[Stargazer]

Next year when the DP+44 switch comes out it will have the DishPro adapter built in so that you will not have to buy an adapter for all your legacy receivers.

 

[Jerry G]

Ok, I got my 105 setup working.

After I had 105 locked in, I took one OUTPUT of my SW64 and the OUTPUT of the FSS LNB into the INPUTS of an SW21 I have. I hooked the OUTPUT of the SW21 into my 6000.

Where do you have the power inserter located. The diagram on the switch page you referenced has it between an output from the SW64 and a SW21. That wouldn't work for me. I'd have to have the inserter on one of the feeds from the SW64 that goes directly into a receiver.

 

[JWHITE]

Yes, I know the DP44+ will be out next year. I am looking at the total cost proposition. I already own all the legacy stuff now (5000, 7100, 6000). Some time next year, I want all dual tuner DVRs with at least one in HD.

I was an early adopter of Dish stuff (4000,5000, 7100) so I never really got any "new subscriber deal" from them. My first dish plus 4000 and 5000 cost almost $1000. I have never been a DTV sub, so I still have that new subscriber bullet available.

When it comes time to upgrade next year, my choice will be on programming most specifically HD, HD-DVR quality, and price. With the new DVR fees and dish complexity along with the high price of DVR receivers from Dish., they better have really good content and the 921 better work with all features real well to keep me.

Jay

 

[JWHITE]

As it turned out, the power inserter is in the line to one of the other receivers, so was NOT in the SW21/6000 runs at all. I have my power inserter and port 1 of the SW64 going to my least used receiver, an old 5000.

Just to keep it simple, you could move your power inserter to another receiver than your 6000. Just make sure you swap the ports at the SW64 so that the one with the power inserter goes to port one

Jay

 

[rudolpht]

Jay,

Very cool. Thinking about doing a similar attempt. Do you think the same could be done with a Starband dish (I no longer use the Internet send/receive portion).

I would be going into a SW64 with the two runs for that (replacing 61.5 in unless I can understand the topology better- I have a couple od SW22s laying around also).

Big question is just a gut check to see if you think if I acquire a duall FSS LNB, Jerry found the Eagle/Aspen 270, that the Starband (since you have it) would be a feasible proposition???

Thanks, you are a true pathfinder.

Tim

 

[Jerry G]

Big question is just a gut check to see if you think if I acquire a duall FSS LNB, Jerry found the Eagle/Aspen 270, that the Starband (since you have it) would be a feasible proposition???

I went with the 270 because it's identical to the 170 (other than having two feeds instead of one) currently on my Unity Motion dish, so I know it will fit and couple with the feedhorn. It looks like the 1700 model that Jay got has the feedhorn attached to the LNBF. I don't recall just how the LNB is attached to my UM dish, but it's possible the 1700 would also work as the diameter of the two LNBFs are the same.

The two questions that are holding up my decision to go this route is if the DishPro technology will give me any significant advantages over the legacy equipment and whether or not I want to give up the PBS HD feed off of AMC3, which is where my UM dish is now pointed. PBS is supposed to have a new HD channel early next year with more material instead of being predominately the same demo loop with occasional HD and widescreen material that is now running.

 

[JWHITE]

Eagle-Aspen has a 2700 also. It is the dual output version of my single. It is a cylindrial unit 50mm diameter and about 5 inches long. If anyone needs a picture, I can take one and post a link.

The two questions that are holding up my decision to go this route is if the DishPro technology will give me any significant advantages over the legacy equipment ...

Dishpro advantages as I see them are:

1) Fewer cables from the dishes makes it quicker and easier for installers to put it in, so cheaper to compete with cable TV
2) Easier Cascading for beyond four output feeds
3) It is the new standand all Dish Equipment will use going forward
4) Switch Checks are MUCH faster

Disadvantages as I see them are:

1) Cost to change out or adapt any legacy setup that has a lot of legacy only receivers
2) The technology is still evolving with Dishpro Plus not out yet
3) Less common parts can be used - pretty much stuck with what Dish supplies
4) Questions about all the DP+ have me worried.
Band stacked Right and Left frequencies X 2 on one cable for dual tuner units? Cable requirements? Connector requirements? Reliability?

The big advantage for ME to keep Legacy for now is I don't have to spend any more money on hardware until the "dust" settles. The industry is just in too big a period of change for me. As a previous early adopter, I have been burned by a lot of broken promises in the hardware department. This time I am going to wait and see......

Jay

 

[JWHITE]

Very cool. Thinking about doing a similar attempt. Do you think the same could be done with a Starband dish (I no longer use the Internet send/receive portion).

Big question is just a gut check to see if you think if I acquire a duall FSS LNB, Jerry found the Eagle/Aspen 270, that the Starband (since you have it) would be a feasible proposition???

Interesting idea, but it would be hard to implement. I think you could find an LNB to replace the center one (Starband) but I don't think you could get things aligned easy without some special brackets. Starband is first aligned to one of two FSS KU satellites (GE-4 @101 and Telstar-7 @129) then you use one of two supplied brackets to hang the Dish dual LNBs on (not interchangeable with other Dish LNBs). Depending on your location, you have to add a certain number of spacers to this bracket to get the alignment close enough to get good Dish signal

To hit a satellite different than GE-4 ot Telstar-7 and still get the Dish stuff aligned would require a new or modified bracket .

If you want to use the Starband dish ONLY for 105 (or 121) the receive LNB should work fine, but only for one polarity. Docs show that you hard set Horizontal or Vertical at the dish during assembly. LNB mount LOOKS like a small long thin neck clamp mount (sorry, no exact specs).

You should have two SW-21s that came with your Starband Dish LNB kit. That's where I got mine from. No need to sacrifice your 61.5 feed. Also the way I did it, you don't need a dual FSS LNB just a single if you only want one receiver to have 105.

Hope this helps!
Jay

 

[Stargazer]

Does Dish plan on including the DP+44 switches with the SuperDish next year or are they going to make you pay extra for the DP+44 or pay the difference between the DP34 and DP+44?

 

[rudolpht]

Jay,

Thanks for input. The dish LNBS on starband are the same old style (like DirecTV DLNBs). Agree mounting would be the real issue. Would just assume have dual FSS (who knows, maybe 2 HDTVs) and use 61.5 to play with VOOM or even pull it down. Looks like I ought to just wait for SuperDish, but I like the challenge (and folks not messing up my hybrid setup of 3 dishes, etc.).

Need to find out cost of the FSS LNB to see if it is worth the try, though polarity variable also spooks me. 105, 110, 119 should b
e alignable but switching 101 to 105 with whatever whack mount is there may be too much trial and error.

Thanks,
Tim

 

[rudolpht]

Whats the salient difference between the P270K & P2700KU (other than the extra digit)...

 

[rudolpht]

Could this also work ????

http://www.emantechnology.com/abi001/showdetl.cfm?&DID=301&User_ID=98867&st=7885&st2=67962761&st3=90268437&Product_ID=99&CATID=2

 

[rudolpht]

Or this?
http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?CAT=Satellite%20Components&PROD=SDWUK-A

Don't understand the mounted top part and if how it would effect aiming.

 

[JWHITE]

Good question about The DP+44. It could solve a lot of problems if they would include it in the box instead of the DP34.

Another question surrounding this is: Can the DP34 and the DP+44 be linked to each other? This would give a mix of port types. Maybe use a couple ports on the DP44+ for legacy receivers and another couple ports on the DP44+ for a dual tuner DVR where you can't easily run multiple cables. Use a DP34 to pickup the rest of the DP compatible receivers. Might be a nice setup and much easier than cascades SW64's with all the extra splitter and load isolators.

What I am really asking is to what extent are DP and DP+ compatible. I would hate to convert to DP only to find out that I has to convert to DP+ next year. It would make good sense if they were compatible, but it needs to be verified.

Jay

 

[Stargazer]

That is a real good question. I hope they have not already made DishPro obsolete with DishPro+ making more incompatibility issues. I am not saying that DishPro is going to be completely obsolete that it would still be in use but a lot of people will think this if they cannot use DishPro and DishPro Plus together.

I assume the DishPro receivers will be able to be used with DP+ switching I would hope that DP switches would also work with the DP+ switches. What receivers are supposed to be DP+? I read the instruction manual on the SuperDish and it said that some receivers would be DP+. Are these going to be the dual tuners such as the 322 and 522 receivers or will it be all future receivers that are going to be released?

 

[JWHITE]

The main difference between the 270 and the 2700 is one of mounting style. The 270 does NOT have the feedhorn, so it will screw to the feedhorn of dishes like the old Direcpc dish and some of the Primestar dishes.

The 2700 has the feedhorn included and uses a simple, universal round clamp mount (in this case 50mm). Winegard and probably others make universal mount dishes. Just make sure it has the 50 mm clamp with it.

Jay.

 

[rudolpht]

Thanks
Tim

 

[rudolpht]

Grabbed this, hope it will work. I think I can do spacing (half the 110 to 119 and give it and rouggh calibrate from there.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3053996427&ssPageName=ADME:B:EOAB:US:6

 

[JWHITE]

That LNBF should work fine. Just use it with something like the Winegard 76cm dish that has the Universal Clamp mount 40mm (looks like model DS-2076). Some descriptive info at:

http://www.dvbresource.com/dishes/winegard/winegard_76_1.html

I am sure there are other dishes that will work as well, I just know this one will work, because I have one running.

Jay