Target will announce BR support tomorrow

[gadgtfreek]

This is great for BR and the Christmas season.

Blu-ray.com - Blu-ray News - Target to Sell Blu-ray Players Exclusively

Target will begin selling the Sony BDP-S300 in its stores starting this October, marking the first time the second-largest retailer will offer a stand-alone high definition movie player. The player will be featured along with movies from Sony Pictures and Disney on aisle endcaps. Sony will be paying for the endcaps, but Target's decision to not stock HD DVD players in store is solely their own. Target will continue to sell discs for both formats.

Come on wally world!

 

[meStevo]

Probably harder to sell BD players with the cheaper HDDVD players sitting next to them.

Doesn't seem that huge since they're still selling the HDDVDs. Definetly good for the BD camp to restrict the flow of competing players, but without cutting off the format (which im sure they tried to do too) and buying some shelf space it's only half a victory.

OK this story is already being twisted a bit by the Blu-Ray camp.

- Target currently sells no HD players in its stores (but sells the HDDVD players on it's website).
- Target sells the 360 addon (I assume since it is a console accessory)
- Target is only offering the $499 BDP-S300 in October, so it will have plenty of PS3s and BD Players for the X-Mas shoppers.
- They are still selling HDDVD titles.

I would expect that many shoppers at that price point wouldnt understand why they shouldn't just get a PS3 for that price instead of a standlone movie player.

A lower priced player nationwide would be much more effective than 'another chain' selling their expensive product.

 

[gadgtfreek]

Probably harder to sell BD players with the cheaper HDDVD players sitting next to them.

Doesn't seem that huge since they're still selling the HDDVDs. Definetly good for the BD camp to restrict the flow of competing players, but without cutting off the format (which im sure they tried to do too) and buying some shelf space it's only half a victory.

OK this story is already being twisted a bit by the Blu-Ray camp.

- Target currently sells no HD players in its stores (but sells the HDDVD players on it's website).
- Target sells the 360 addon (I assume since it is a console accessory)
- Target is only offering the $499 BDP-S300 in October, so it will have plenty of PS3s and BD Players for the X-Mas shoppers.
- They are still selling HDDVD titles.

I would expect that many shoppers at that price point wouldnt understand why they shouldn't just get a PS3 for that price instead of a standlone movie player.

A lower priced player nationwide would be much more effective than 'another chain' selling their expensive product.

You guys just keep telling yourselves whatever you need to every time HDDVD takes a hit. I dont see how you can think positivily about the fact Target is only going to carry BR standalones in the store. How long do you think before it goes this way online?

Yes they have them online. Everyone that walks into a Target come this fall is going to see BR players and BR ads, especially great for Christmas.

This was a good week with this announcement, Fox gearing up, hell even Funimation announced they are supporting Blu Ray.

People thought the blockbuster announcement wasn't that big, we'll see considering the Netflix subscriber count dropped this qtr.

 

[meStevo]

This is big for Blu Ray in a month and a half, and for press coverage in general, but this isn't removing another way for people to get a HDDVD player, neither formats were ever sold there to begin with (and since online appears to be so different, why would they be exclusive there?).

This isn't as big as the Blockbuster announcement.

What's between the lines here? Sony begging for hardware carriage, maybe increasing the margin a little on the players in addition to paying for some shelf space? In the end you have a standalone player priced at the same point as the PS3 BD player that has been there all along. All that is gained here is another SKU at $499 that can play BD discs and better shelf space.

- HDDVD titles will still be sold there
- 360 addon will still be sold there
- the PS3 will still be sold there.

This is a minor win at best, but it is a win.

A real article about it btw: Target to Promote Blu-Ray DVD Format - Forbes.com

 

[gadgtfreek]

I heard the same comments about Blockbuster. Problem is, every "minor" win gains more momentum for BR. And now the PS3 is selling very well.

 

[navychop]

I wonder if there's any thought of legal liability involved.

IF HD DVD fails in this country, would some lawyers file suit claiming the stores selling the HD DVD players knew, or should have known, that the format was about to meet it's demise? Win or lose, lawsuits are an expense, and our society is getting ever more litigious. Probably nothing like this happened back in the Beta Max days, and would not apply to laserdiscs or 8 tracks. Probably not to DAT, either.

Probably just my distrust of lawyers flaming on a little too high.

But it's really beginning to look like by Turkey Day things will be looking grim for HD DVD.

 

[gadgtfreek]

I wonder if there's any thought of legal liability involved.

IF HD DVD fails in this country, would some lawyers file suit claiming the stores selling the HD DVD players knew, or should have known, that the format was about to meet it's demise? Win or lose, lawsuits are an expense, and our society is getting ever more litigious. Probably nothing like this happened back in the Beta Max days, and would not apply to laserdiscs or 8 tracks. Probably not to DAT, either.

Probably just my distrust of lawyers flaming on a little too high.

But it's really beginning to look like by Turkey Day things will be looking grim for HD DVD.

As sue happy as this society is, dont give em any ideas.

 

[Derwin0]

Target will continue to sell discs for both formats.

This caveat will make this a minor thing. If Target went exclusively for one disc format or the other, then it would be a big thing.

 

[JoeSp]

This is a HUGE annoucement. This is the second biggest retailer in the US announcing support for BluRay. This is just the beginning as retailers start looking at profit margins and see none in the HD-DVD camp but plenty in the BluRay camp. When J6P goes to BlockBuster and sees BluRay and not HD-DVD and then goes to Target and sees BluRay being pushed on the endcaps with a player and then goes into BestBuy and sees not one but two BluRay displays and then goes into Walmart and sees 2 to 3 times as many BluRay titles for sale as HD-DVD what do you thing they are going to buy?

A long time ago someone in a post here stated that retailers would go with whatever would make them money. Right now that choice seems to be BluRay and guys -- Target's decision is huge no matter how you look at it!

 

[gadgtfreek]

This caveat will make this a minor thing. If Target went exclusively for one disc format or the other, then it would be a big thing.

I disagree. If this was some rinky dink store maybe, but everyone will read in the papers today about the #2 retailers decision, they wont read the details.

Also, If I did my shopping at target and was looking for a High Def Format, regardless of what they sold disc wise Id pay attention to the hardware. Target gets a lot of traffic and this is great.

Many said the Blockbuster deal was minor because "blockbuster is dead", now many are saying its turning out to be more.

Yepp, lets keep supporting Univ and Tosh because of price, or we could do it because Sony is evil.

Lets not support BR because its superior storage format or the fact theres more support. Also, Sony is evil.

HDDVD is still around because its got the wii factor. Its not the best equipment but its half the price.


The fact that Target supposedly the hardware decision on their own is big too.

 

[roachxp]

This caveat will make this a minor thing. If Target went exclusively for one disc format or the other, then it would be a big thing.

Then HD DVD could counter back and release all their movies only has combo DVD/HDDVD disks and then retailer would be in a screwed.

 

[r.jones1116]

I disagree. If this was some rinky dink store maybe, but everyone will read in the papers today about the #2 retailers decision, they wont read the details.

Also, If I did my shopping at target and was looking for a High Def Format, regardless of what they sold disc wise Id pay attention to the hardware. Target gets a lot of traffic and this is great.

Many said the Blockbuster deal was minor because "blockbuster is dead", now many are saying its turning out to be more.

Yepp, lets keep supporting Univ and Tosh because of price, or we could do it because Sony is evil.

Lets not support BR because its superior storage format or the fact theres more support. Also, Sony is evil.

HDDVD is still around because its got the wii factor. Its not the best equipment but its half the price.


The fact that Target supposedly the hardware decision on their own is big too.

Blockbuster deal- I haven't seen anything stating it is more. Do you have sources?

Prices of HW - Yes HD DVD is selling more stand alone players than BD (70 to 30).

Superior storage - 51 GB TL HDDVD discs are already being tested on first gen. HDVD players.

Studio support - Current count is 28 for HDDVD and 25 for BD. Most BD exclusive titles can be imported from overseas on HDDVD. HDDVD players are region free.

HDDVD is not the best equipment? How did you arrive at this? you might want to read up on that.

Target did not make the decision to exclusively support BD. Sony is paying for endcaps like all do. So Target will have a Sony stand alone player that won't sell to go along with a PS3 that doesn't sell either.

 

[gadgtfreek]

Its always the same, so im not going to argue. You guys continue to support a dying format.

Ok, so HDDVD is touting a 51gb disc. Lets not forget TDK's 100gig BR recordable. Once again, inferior format. Why support limited storage. This goes beyond the movies, but all HDDVD guys can counter with it is "its plenty of space". Maybe as far as movies are concerned.

Knowing a 51gig hddvd disc is coming and a 100gig br disc is coming. If you were buying a new pc, would you get a br rw drive or a hddvd rw drive. Im sure youll say hddvd which does not surprise me.

The blockbuster comment was opinion, from what ive seen in the forums. Plus Netflix just had its sub count go in the negative direction. Coincidence? I switched to BB online from Netflix when they made the announcement to go Blu.

Now of course, the Target announcement is only "minor", thats the standard answer for the HDDVD camp. Lets see how Joe Blow takes it reading the papers today and when he's in Target doing his christmas shopping.

As far as HDDVD equipment being superior, I feel the Samsung BD-P1200 is one of the best units out now. Lets forget you have the 3rd gen Samsung coming soon and Denons new nice piece of equipment. Whats Toshiba doing?

Target did not make the decision to exclusively support BR hardware, but they did make the decision ON THEIR OWN to support BR standalones in the store.

From forbes:

Target would not say why it decided to sell only Blu-ray players in stores. Sony is paying a fee to have its products featured in the end-of-aisle display, called an endcap, although Sony executives said the retailer contacted them about the decision.

 

[gadgtfreek]

Ok, I retract my statement on HDDVDvsBR players. It appears the XA2 and 1200 are both high quality players.

I would ask the question then:

With the 3rd gen samsung coming soon and tosh not planning a 3rd gen until next year, is that good for HDDVD?

They stand the lose the PQ claims they had by getting surpased by newer and more functional BR units.

 

[vurbano]

They wont sell any. They cost too much for Walmart/Target customers.

 

[s8ist]

Its always the same, so im not going to argue. You guys continue to support a dying format.

BR may be on the rise, but the truth is that HD adoption is still slow. I don't doubt the consumer's ability to make the choice that will screw them. For me it's all about cost-benefit ratio. Right now HD-DVD provides this.

Ok, so HDDVD is touting a 51gb disc. Lets not forget TDK's 100gig BR recordable. Once again, inferior format. Why support limited storage. This goes beyond the movies, but all HDDVD guys can counter with it is "its plenty of space". Maybe as far as movies are concerned.

It's all about movies. I don't care what the disc capacity is, as long as the quality of the movie and its features are great. Why should I care about storage capacity when harddrives and flash memory are going cheaper and cheaper? Why will I need to store 50 or 100 GB discs of data? I don't have the time to be archiving data, much less the time to be amassing such [illegal] data over newsgroups. I especially don't have time to burn and reburn BD-RW's as if they were harddrives. If I need to back my data up to mutliple DVD-R's, it's not as if I'll be doing it frequently enough to warrant buying an expensive BD drive and media!

Knowing a 51gig hddvd disc is coming and a 100gig br disc is coming. If you were buying a new pc, would you get a br rw drive or a hddvd rw drive. Im sure youll say hddvd which does not surprise me.

I would get neither. There isn't a significant advantage to larger optical media storage. Again, I can burn multiple DVD-R's for way less in terms of both hardware and discs. Faster as well.

The blockbuster comment was opinion, from what ive seen in the forums. Plus Netflix just had its sub count go in the negative direction. Coincidence? I switched to BB online from Netflix when they made the announcement to go Blu.

Netflix still carries a better selection. They also carry blu-ray. Doesn't really make sense that you switched just because of the Blu-ray store announcement. Unless you're referring to the Total Access part of the program, which might make some sense. It isn't clear what you mean by this.

Now of course, the Target announcement is only "minor", thats the standard answer for the HDDVD camp. Lets see how Joe Blow takes it reading the papers today and when he's in Target doing his christmas shopping.

I don't think it is minor. In fact, I see blu taking some major steps ahead hd-dvd. I may favor the HDDVD technology for its practical approach and quality, but I'm not so rabid in my support that I can't detect negative news when its right in front of me. But I seem to remember the BD camp doing the same thing when the MPEG-2 encodes were giving the tech a bad name, or the unfinished BD spec. The 'fanatics' will always spin the news to make it look favorable for their 'side'.

As far as HDDVD equipment being superior, I feel the Samsung BD-P1200 is one of the best units out now. Lets forget you have the 3rd gen Samsung coming soon and Denons new nice piece of equipment. Whats Toshiba doing?

They don't need to do much. The XA-2 is still regarded as one of the best hi-def players on the market. Period.

Target did not make the decision to exclusively support BR hardware, but they did make the decision ON THEIR OWN to support BR standalones in the store.

I consider the BB and the Target decision as wins for the BD supporters. I just can't figure out why people are all about BD. Storage is a moot point. Studio support is a moot point (Consumer-base should dictate studio support, not the other way around). HDDVD offers the same or better movie product (HDi is complete spec) for less of a price. Supporting BD is almost like arguing that Monster Cable is pro-consumer.

 

[JoeSp]

There is nothing new coming to the HD-DVD camp. What you have is all you are ever going to get. However, as BluRay catches up to HD-DVD in the HDi department on BluRay those same features will be in HD (never gonna happen on HD-DVD) and with newer HDTVs coming out supporting the new extended coulour standard you will begin to see that on BD (not going to happen on HD-DVD). And of course the last vestige of HD-DVD is standalone price -- by next year the only thing HD-DVD can do is give away their players because BD will have met them in low cost on the shelf.

So where is HD-DVD going to go for XMAS?

 

[diogen]

...and with newer HDTVs coming out supporting the new extended coulour standard you will begin to see that on BD (not going to happen on HD-DVD).

Here we go again.

Maybe this will bring you down to Earth if you don't believe what I told you many times. Start here:
Industry Insiders Master Q&A thread III: ONLY Questions to Insiders - AVS Forum
"...nominal luma range of video codecs is 16-235."
"...If we had it all over to do again, we might pick different values, but we're stuck with 16-235 for this epoch of digital video."

Both HD and BD are and always will be 4:2:0 8 bit (not even full 8 bit).
Industry Insiders Master Q&A thread III: ONLY Questions to Insiders - AVS Forum
"Capture:
The video is captured from its source, typically a D5 or HDCAM tape, but increasingly from Digital Intermediate. The capture is typically to a .AVI file in 10-bit 4:2:2 color.

Dithering:
The 10-bit 4:2:2 source is converted to the final 8-bit 4:2:0 colorspace used by HD DVD and BD. Care needs to be taken to avoid any banding at this stage."

In how many days are you going to bring up this "extended coulour" issue again? It will never be even full 8 bit!

Diogen.

 

[r.jones1116]

There is nothing new coming to the HD-DVD camp. What you have is all you are ever going to get. However, as BluRay catches up to HD-DVD in the HDi department on BluRay those same features will be in HD (never gonna happen on HD-DVD) and with newer HDTVs coming out supporting the new extended coulour standard you will begin to see that on BD (not going to happen on HD-DVD). And of course the last vestige of HD-DVD is standalone price -- by next year the only thing HD-DVD can do is give away their players because BD will have met them in low cost on the shelf.

So where is HD-DVD going to go for XMAS?

So what your saying JoeSp is HDDVD has already achieved what BD is trying to accomplish.

 

[Splicer]

This is a HUGE annoucement. This is the second biggest retailer in the US announcing support for BluRay.

Target does NOT 'support' BR... Target is being paid to sell it so financially it is a smart decision as they are 'double dipping' so to speak...First they get paid to display the units (the ONLY reason BR players will be there) and second they will make their profit off of the sales of those units which they are paid to display. All this means is Target is out for themselves and NOT the best format...