The death of HD-DVD is not Blu-Ray but someone in their own backyard!!

[JoeSp]

That someone is M$. To put it bluntly, M$ is not interested in HD-DVD at all. In fact they proved that by not adding a HD-DVD to their new 360ELITE. M$ aim has been to push a war between formats for the consumer just so they can get in the door with downloadable content. If M$ is not willing to commit why should any consumer buy HD-DVD?

They have even pushed the idea of 720p DVD's with no HD audio. And why? Because this would play on their M$ HD-DVD drive with no loss of any funtions. Who cares if you don't get HD sound or 1080p picture -- You will still be getting 720p which is still HD. No one really wants full HD with full HD audio do they?

After getting you HD-DVD fans to buy into this they will then get you into their downloadable HD content which you can own for a few days and watch at your pleasure. Seems I see both DirectTV and Dish doing the same thing with their downloadable content. Downrezed HD offerings and lousy audio reproduction. You HD-DVD fans really like those downrezed offerings from DirectTV and Dish don't you?

And all you HD-DVD fans just jump right on in. Heck, I ever read where a poster here (no names please) tried to convince a future buyer that upconverted DVDs were just about as good as a HD-DVD movie! Man, this is just what M$ wants to hear. They smell your wallet opening and they are going to get in there one way or the other. HD-DVD fans don't mind giving their money to M$, do you? After all, you will pay over $800 for a 360 and add-ons from M$ to match the output of a PS3 and then say at least M$ gave you a choice -- right?

So, until the HD-DVD camp finds someone else to carry their banner other then M$ it will always be the 900lb gorrilla in their back yard that will keep them from being able to compete fully with BluRay. Hey maybe Samsung can be that guy with their new combo player-- remember how well they helped lauched BluRay last year!?!

 

[vurbano]

Wow that is desperate. Oh Woe is me, Microsoft is going to make all of the studios release their offerings in 720p. We are all doomed, the sky is falling. The government blew up the twin towers and there was another shooter on the grassy Knoll.

 

[CochiseGuy]

That someone is M$. To put it bluntly, M$ is not interested in HD-DVD at all.

Putting it bluntly does not make it true. That's complete nonsense, they're very involved and work directly with studios to assist in VC-1 and HDi encoding for HD DVD releases. They're also very close business partners with Toshiba, which produces their Zune media player and the HD DVD add-on drive for Xbox.

In fact they proved that by not adding a HD-DVD to their new 360ELITE.

They've stated repeatedly and consistently that it's about offering consumers a choice. Their main focus is selling the Xbox, so they can sell their primary product - software. The Xbox doesn't need a HD DVD add-on - or a Blu-ray add-on. It sells itself.

On the other hand, what would the PS3 be without it's Blu-ray drive? Its the only thing that pushing sales for it. Even then, sales are already dropping significantly. The early adapters like you snapped them up as the only reasonably affordable way to play Blu-ray movies. That demand has been met, and its now trailing badly in 3rd place in a three man race. There's not much out there that can take advantage of all that graphics processing power, and has limited backwards capability - even less so in the European model.

After getting you HD-DVD fans to buy into this they will then get you into their downloadable HD content which you can own for a few days and watch at your pleasure. Seems I see both DirectTV and Dish doing the same thing with their downloadable content. Downrezed HD offerings and lousy audio reproduction. You HD-DVD fans really like those downrezed offerings from DirectTV and Dish don't you?

Microsoft or any other company can try to sell me anything they want. And I'm free to say No Thanks. I'm not upgrading to Vista until it's time to buy a new PC. I've never purchased a download movie content, and don't see it in the future. And, no thank you, I don't like HD Lite on Dish. As a Blu-ray owner, do you? If there was an alternative, I'd try them. That's why I tried HD DVD - full HD quality at a lower price. It's great when consumers have a choice.

Heck, I ever read where a poster here (no names please) tried to convince a future buyer that upconverted DVDs were just about as good as a HD-DVD movie!

Ok, you did leave me "nameless" but still, please don't twist my words around. I said in another thread in reply to claims of how those Disney Pirate movies are just going to be irresistible to parents buying into Blu-ray, I suggested the parents could buy standard DVD and play it upconverted on an HD DVD player and the "kids" (meaning younger than teenagers) "probably" wouldn't know the difference. I prefer my viewing on HD DVD, but if it's not available, I rent the DVD or even watch it on Dish HD Lite.

And the reason I post so much is because I'm sick of all this "death of HD DVD" crap. I'm glad you enjoy your little game machine that can also play high def movies. I couldn't care less if Blu-ray is successful or dies a slow death. All I care about is HD DVD staying viable as an alternative, that I have a choice, and don't have to have Sony & gang telling me what I have to buy and accept if I want to own high def movies.

 

[r.jones1116]

That someone is M$. To put it bluntly, M$ is not interested in HD-DVD at all. In fact they proved that by not adding a HD-DVD to their new 360ELITE. M$ aim has been to push a war between formats for the consumer just so they can get in the door with downloadable content. If M$ is not willing to commit why should any consumer buy HD-DVD?

They have even pushed the idea of 720p DVD's with no HD audio. And why? Because this would play on their M$ HD-DVD drive with no loss of any funtions. Who cares if you don't get HD sound or 1080p picture -- You will still be getting 720p which is still HD. No one really wants full HD with full HD audio do they?

After getting you HD-DVD fans to buy into this they will then get you into their downloadable HD content which you can own for a few days and watch at your pleasure. Seems I see both DirectTV and Dish doing the same thing with their downloadable content. Downrezed HD offerings and lousy audio reproduction. You HD-DVD fans really like those downrezed offerings from DirectTV and Dish don't you?

And all you HD-DVD fans just jump right on in. Heck, I ever read where a poster here (no names please) tried to convince a future buyer that upconverted DVDs were just about as good as a HD-DVD movie! Man, this is just what M$ wants to hear. They smell your wallet opening and they are going to get in there one way or the other. HD-DVD fans don't mind giving their money to M$, do you? After all, you will pay over $800 for a 360 and add-ons from M$ to match the output of a PS3 and then say at least M$ gave you a choice -- right?

So, until the HD-DVD camp finds someone else to carry their banner other then M$ it will always be the 900lb gorrilla in their back yard that will keep them from being able to compete fully with BluRay. Hey maybe Samsung can be that guy with their new combo player-- remember how well they helped lauched BluRay last year!?!

HDDVD takes the lead again and all you want to do is spew FUD.
Try posting something that is based in fact.

 

[sampatterson]

Your MS conspiracy theory left one thing out... hmmm blu-ray uses VC-1 also,

The only conspiracy is Microsoft is one of the few players making royalties no matter which format wins.

 

[Jamey K]

Wow that is desperate. Oh Woe is me, Microsoft is going to make all of the studios release their offerings in 720p. We are all doomed, the sky is falling. The government blew up the twin towers and there was another shooter on the grassy Knoll.

You forgot Bill Gates is really dead. He was replaced by Paul McCartney.

 

[damaged]

VHS for life!

 

[Peter Parker]

As an outsider to all this I welcomed the addition of these new forums as I thought it might help me to get a certain amount of info about the two formats and why people choose each.

Instead all I see are a lot of bizarre attempts to take some piece of information and stretch it so that it "proves" that the other format has to die. Does anyone honestly think that they win converts with these posts?

 

[JohnL]

VHS for life!

Damaged,


Question, are you still listening to 78's. ;>)

John

 

[damaged]

Damaged,


Question, are you still listening to 78's. ;>)

John

They are right next to my 8 inch floppies!

 

[teachsac]

Amirm posted on AVS insiders thread exactly why an HD-DVD drive was was not included in the Elite months ago.

 

[navychop]

Oh, how I wish this mess was all over with!

 

[brantlew]

As an outsider to all this I welcomed the addition of these new forums as I thought it might help me to get a certain amount of info about the two formats and why people choose each.

Well said. I don't have hi def DVD yet, but I will only adopt when I have a clear reason to pick one format over another and so far this forum has not helped on that decision.

I'm not too worried about the content at this time because I will NOT buy any DVDs until I am sure that the winner is clear. Until then I can rent either format from NetFlix, so it comes down to the choice of which player I want to drop $500 - $800 bucks on.

Right now the decision for me comes down to whether the overwhelming capacity advantage of Blu-Ray is worth the risk of the new disk technology. I'm very worried about the new coating material and the thinness of the protective coating on the Blu-Rays. The HD-DVD discs use the decades old plastic coating which we all understand in terms of scratch resistance and longevity. Does anyone have a feel yet for how durable the Blu-Rays are? Has anyone had the opportunity to bend them, or chunk them across the room, or let dust accumulate on them? What about the players? Do you have to tip-toe next to them or can they take some vibration?

 

[teachsac]

Oh, how I wish this mess was all over with!

Man, You got that right.

S~

 

[vurbano]

A whopper of a lie, this is leaving studios high and dry?

That someone is M$. To put it bluntly, M$ is not interested in HD-DVD at all. In fact they proved that by not adding a HD-DVD to their new 360ELITE. M$ aim has been to push a war between formats for the consumer just so they can get in the door with downloadable content. If M$ is not willing to commit why should any consumer buy HD-DVD?

They have even pushed the idea of 720p DVD's with no HD audio. And why? Because this would play on their M$ HD-DVD drive with no loss of any funtions. Who cares if you don't get HD sound or 1080p picture -- You will still be getting 720p which is still HD. No one really wants full HD with full HD audio do they?

After getting you HD-DVD fans to buy into this they will then get you into their downloadable HD content which you can own for a few days and watch at your pleasure. Seems I see both DirectTV and Dish doing the same thing with their downloadable content. Downrezed HD offerings and lousy audio reproduction. You HD-DVD fans really like those downrezed offerings from DirectTV and Dish don't you?

And all you HD-DVD fans just jump right on in. Heck, I ever read where a poster here (no names please) tried to convince a future buyer that upconverted DVDs were just about as good as a HD-DVD movie! Man, this is just what M$ wants to hear. They smell your wallet opening and they are going to get in there one way or the other. HD-DVD fans don't mind giving their money to M$, do you? After all, you will pay over $800 for a 360 and add-ons from M$ to match the output of a PS3 and then say at least M$ gave you a choice -- right?

So, until the HD-DVD camp finds someone else to carry their banner other then M$ it will always be the 900lb gorrilla in their back yard that will keep them from being able to compete fully with BluRay. Hey maybe Samsung can be that guy with their new combo player-- remember how well they helped lauched BluRay last year!?!

Microsoft Announces Commercial VC-1 Encoder SDK

Press release

Next-generation VC-1 encoder technology brings critically acclaimed quality preferred by HD DVD studios to video encoding solutions providers.


LAS VEGAS, April 16 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Today at the 2007 National Association of Broadcasters convention (NAB2007), Microsoft Corp. announced the new Microsoft(R) VC-1 Encoder software development kit (SDK), available to manufacturers building video encoding solutions. Taking advantage of the same core encoding techniques major Hollywood studios rely on to deliver the recognized high quality of HD DVDs (more than 90 percent of HD DVD titles authored in the United States use VC-1) and other high-definition optical discs, the commercial SDK offers substantial quality and performance improvements over the previously released Windows Media(R) Format SDK. Improvements include better picture quality, faster encode times, new features optimized for various video distribution channels, and ease of integrating future updates.

"Our strong heritage in video encoding with Windows Media Video and our years of work with Hollywood studios are reflected in this latest VC-1 Encoder technology and new support program," said Amir Majidimehr, corporate vice president of the Consumer Media Technology Group at Microsoft. "We'll be rolling out new advancements to tools manufacturers in a consistent and familiar way, giving licensees the assurance of always having the latest encoder improvements and making it easier for them to adapt to the ever- changing landscape of video distribution."

The new commercial VC-1 Encoder SDK allows licensees, for the first time, to easily deliver VC-1 video beyond the Windows Media Format container, utilizing Microsoft's high-quality encoder optimizations. Improved delivery scenarios include a program or transport stream for HD DVD or Blu-ray, MPEG-2 transport stream for broadcast and Internet Protocol television (IPTV), Material eXchange Format (MXF) for easy interchange, and the MP4 file format container. For broadcast and IPTV, in particular, it is now easier for tools manufacturers to implement closed captioning, improve interlaced encoding quality and performance, and enable easy output to MPEG-2 transport streams. Special features have also been customized for market segments such as high- definition optical discs; the Microsoft VC-1 Encoder SDK can enable parallel encoding for significant improvement in speed as well as segment-based re- encoding, which allows users to re-encode only the portion of the content that would benefit from another encode.

Leading companies are already offering products built on the new VC-1 Encoder technology, including Inlet Technologies with its line of Spinnaker live encoders for IPTV, Web-based applications and mobile delivery; and Tarari Inc.'s Encoder Accelerator for Windows Media, which increases VC-1 encoding speed by up to 15 times over software alone. The recently announced Sonic Solutions CineVision PSE for HD DVD and Blu-ray Disc is also built on the new VC-1 Encoder technology and includes parallel encoding and segment-based re- encoding capabilities.

"Microsoft's VC-1 Encoder SDK is a key enabler in our ongoing commitment to providing Hollywood's compression professionals with the best image-quality processing technology possible," said Rolf Hartley, senior vice president and general manager of the Professional Products Division at Sonic Solutions in Novato, Calif. "With Microsoft's focus on the core elements of VC-1 efficiency, Sonic is able to concentrate on developing the most-effective controls and workflow possible to deliver uncompromising capability and encode quality to Hollywood."

The new Microsoft VC-1 Encoder SDK will be delivered as a stable and consistent set of application programming interfaces (APIs), allowing companies that manufacture content-creation tools to easily integrate the latest updates from Microsoft without having to re-engineer their applications.

An official Society of Motion Picture and Television Engineers (SMPTE) standard, VC-1 video is ubiquitous on the Internet and provides superior playback across a wide array of scenarios regardless of bit rate or resolution. These scenarios range from the PC (where VC-1 playback at 1080p is possible) to set-top boxes, gaming systems, wireless handsets and next- generation high-definition optical discs (HD DVD and Blu-ray). Microsoft's VC- 1 Encoder technology has quickly become the tool of choice for Hollywood studios producing HD DVD discs and delivering digital downloads through leading online services such as the Xbox LIVE(R) Marketplace.

Founded in 1975, Microsoft (NASDAQ: MSFT) is the worldwide leader in software, services and solutions that help people and businesses realize their full potential.

Microsoft, Windows Media and Xbox LIVE are trademarks of the Microsoft group of companies.

The names of actual companies and products mentioned herein may be the trademarks of their respective owners.

 

[navychop]

Well said. I don't have hi def DVD yet, but I will only adopt when I have a clear reason to pick one format over another and so far this forum has not helped on that decision.

I agree. It looks like Blu-ray will be the "winner" or that maybe both will survive. But this is by no means certain. Blu-ray could still lose- volume is still way low.


Right now the decision for me comes down to whether the overwhelming capacity advantage of Blu-Ray is worth the risk of the new disk technology. I'm very worried about the new coating material and the thinness of the protective coating on the Blu-Rays. The HD-DVD discs use the decades old plastic coating which we all understand in terms of scratch resistance and longevity. Does anyone have a feel yet for how durable the Blu-Rays are?

The coatings have been proven durable. No need to worry there. Read this link about the coating. Here's a YouTube bit about a guy who tested it with steel wool.

The thinness allows more layers to be put on the disc, for greater capacity. This will be very useful for data storage, or multiple movies on one disc (click here for your unlock code! Have your credit card ready!).

 

[JoeSp]

Never said that M$ isn't doing well with the VC-1 encoders. And I believe that they don't even own those encoders outright. Seems everyone here missed the big point:

M$ is only interested in downloadable content that they can charge for, limit your use and not support a full HD product. That is why they continue to improve their excellent VC-1 encoders. It is all directed toward internet download and payment for services. I personally will not pay for media that I cannot own a copy of for as long as I want. M$ is just looking for a way to make your movie viewing another 'Live' experiance -- only with time constraints.

But VC-1 is not the only game in town. Several MPEG4AVC encoders are doing extreemly well right now and in some case are providing a better picture then VC-1. Not in every case mind you but it has been shown that MPEG4 can compete equally with VC-1 and with the additional space of BD you don't have to worry about space.


CC, maybe 6 year olds would not know the differance between regular DVD and the BD versions of the Pirates movies but Disney is going out-of-their way to put alot of product into these discs. Each movie is going to be 2 50gb discs containing information, games and content using BD-Java. These might be the first discs to really show the direction that BD can provide for the end user. The regular DVD's will not have all this stuff and older kids will surely notice.

And I stand by my title as I believe that M$ is not doing the HD-DVD camp any favors. Bill Gates is a master at setting on the fench -- pushing the market in his direction -- and stealing all the thunder. M$ has done this time and time again, so much so that they stay in court somewhere on this planet being sued either by companies or goverments who do not like their tactics. I will let the new VISTA OS speak for itself. BluRay isn't going to kill HD-DVD in this market (North America) M$ will. And that is because the HD-DVD early adopters will accept anything that will further their format -- lower rez, combo dics, dual format discs, players without complete format requirements (M$ own HD-DVD player) and even dual format players. While BD sticks to their guns, continues to outsell total discs numbers and starting next month starts bringing out even bigger movie boxoffice hits then the HD-DVD camp can hope to match. Anything hot coming from the HD-DVD camp is from dual supporting studios who already know that the BD product if down right will outsell the HD-DVD one (every one has already) so lets hurry up and get that HD-DVD out before the format goes to Asia for good.

I really don't believe that HD-DVD as a format is going to simply dry-up and go away -- it is already slated for the new Chinese HD content with their own HD format but as for the rest of the world outside of Asia (excluding Japan, Australia and perhaps Korea) HD-DVD will simply survive in computers. The Home Theater market will probably go BD -- most of the privately owned HT dealers already have. There is no money in HD-DVD for them but their is plenty in BD. The retailers will always move towards the money and they might make this decision for us. If this takes 2 more years maybe the internet will be fast enough to make downloadable HD content viable -- I can hear M$ money vacumm starting up already!

 

[navychop]

Do you know when these 2 50GB Disney discs will hit the market? And will current players be able to take advantage of the BD-java features?

 

[Paradox-SJ]

Can I pull my finger out of the BD dike now?

 

[vurbano]

I really don't believe that HD-DVD as a format is going to simply dry-up and go away -- it is already slated for the new Chinese HD content with their own HD format but as for the rest of the world outside of Asia (excluding Japan, Australia and perhaps Korea) HD-DVD will simply survive in computers. The Home Theater market will probably go BD -- most of the privately owned HT dealers already have.

I dont think BD will dry up and die. It will be used in computers to some extent while the HD DVD will rule the home theater market.