They told me everything was free!!

webbydude

webbydude

SatelliteGuys Master
Feb 6, 2005
5,339
1
Akron, Ohio, United States
That is still the current document. Check the Retailer Care Site. Now run along since you've been exposed for the lazy hack that you are. You give E* a bad name in the minds of customers who have the misfortune of you coming out to their home.

A link to said "retailer care site" would be appreciated. :)
 
webbydude

webbydude

SatelliteGuys Master
Feb 6, 2005
5,339
1
Akron, Ohio, United States
As a customer, and someone who I'm sure the installers here don't want to hear from based on my past but at my mothers where a wall fish was necessary I refused to sign the contract which meant that after the installer had done everything else and was nearly done he had to go back on the roof and take the dish equipment back and as a result wasted about an hour and a half of his time for the install not counting the uninstall all because he didn't want to take ten to fifteen minutes to do what was needed. In the end is it better to do something that takes no time to do to please the customer or is it better to have worked 3 hours without pay?

To be honest, if a customer refused to sign the contract at the end of the install still keeps me in the free and clear. The receivers are activated. And in the notes, I'll simply state, "customer refused to sign paperwork". And even better, I still get paid for the install. What usually happens then is either (a) the customer gripes and continues with service or (b) gripes and wants the system removed. In the case of the latter, another workorder is generated for a "de-install" and the customer either pays for the de-install or Dish reimbursed things. Once again, I get paid for removal of said equipment.

Boy do I hate people who seem to think they have installers cornered because they think they know all the ins-and-outs of piece rate work.
 
5

585960

SatelliteGuys Pro
Feb 4, 2007
437
0
my house
585960, Dude, c-mon You know I rescpct you as a fellow installer and I agree that doing extra work that is not the norm can be aggravating at times, But how many times do you acually have to do attic work or wall fish's?. Look, I am a sub contractor and I know how it is but if it comes down to the customer cancelling or just do the wall fish, I choose the wall fish. I rather get paid for the job since I spent my time and gas driving to the customers home. If I say, "See Ya" like you said you do Thats a big waste of time and gas. So (in my case) when the customer wants a wall fish, I will sugest another option like wall penatrations or revearse a wall plate or something, If they still want the extra work, All it takes is me thinking of the customers kids not having TV or something like that. So I rather just do it and deal with it. When I get home at night I think of the customers kids watching TV and having a good time, That makes me feel good. I don't think I could feel good thinking the kids are sad and dissapointed that they did not get TV. Or some guy wanting the Outdoor channel, Or some wife wanting to watch "Deal or No Deal"..........
585960 listen bud, What goes around comes around, Do good things for people and people will do good things for you. Sucks when I get home late at night, But there are many day's that I am home by 1pm. Be very thankfull you have a job Satellite install jobs are not in stone. It could ALL come to an end at any given moment. Your retailer could just up and quit the business. Dish could put a stop to subbing all together. The economy could slow the "new connects" An act of terrorism could shut down the new customer activity all together. Remember what happened after Sept. 11th? I do, Everything stopped or slowed down to a crawl. I had mabey 1 install and 2-3 TC's a day. Most day's I didn't even have any work. Some day's I had just 1 TC it sucked!!... So when it comes to wall fish's, attic work or any other custom labor, I advise doing it and Thanking the customer from the bottom of your heart because that customer just put food on your table.
Look........I am a solid tech. Clean installs w/o TC's, and any damage issues. You ought to know that I know how to do whatever it is to get a job done and 99% of the customers are happy. But the two here trying, like they know, saying I am a hack, f'k em. I won't be bullied, thats why I am not DNSC. Thats all, the 1% that suck surfaced. And I don't eat fast food anyway, its unhealthy!
 
Tyralak

Tyralak

SatelliteGuys Master
Oct 21, 2003
5,702
167
Secure, Undisclosed Location
So what happens to you in these situations? Performing custom installation work could add hour(s) to your day. Are you re-imbursed by Dish for this time? If not, then you definitely have a contractual problem with Dish and need to get that clarified. But if you are getting paid for it, then I guess your options are better..

I quit subcontracting a couple of years ago because my profit margin was getting smaller and smaller. I'm DNS now, so they pay me hourly. I'll do whatever custom work DNS asks me to do, but we're routed pretty heavy, and we still have productivity goals and other pressures.
 
Tyralak

Tyralak

SatelliteGuys Master
Oct 21, 2003
5,702
167
Secure, Undisclosed Location
I am currently employed at dish I am a Techinical Service Representative Level III--(TSRIII) ( in fact im on a call now) i used to be a installer and its from both sides tech and call center the loves gone!--- when a tech calls in i enjoy being helpful i was one i know what its like! But man today alone i counted each tech 5 out of 7 were complete *$$hole i mean chill out i even tell them hey i have been there done it
you have to undestand both sides All day we have to clean up techs messes so alot of reps hate when techs call because techs are the guys who cause the most irate customers besides CSR at least thats how the reps see it, reps believe all techs are sorry because of that but at the same token the only messes we have to clean up are the ones techs did sorry on so techincally the only tech reps hear about are the bad ones because the customer calls with an issue for all the techs doing there job we never hear from those customers because its working- so reps think all techs are bad because they only here from the bad ones--- now techs whats with the attitude i never was mad when i called you have to remember call centers go through so many employees there is always new people and CSR (customer service) is the one lacking tech knowledge( like wall fishing info=- they have the highest turn over rate which means alot of newbies ) i mean my god i get transfers from them were they told the customer i can turn tv1 into tv2 yeah right try walking an 80 year old person to flip a diplexer or explaining a back feed install - there are good agents just like installers but we never talk to each other the good ones that is nest time you call in ask for advanced tech support rather then just the frontlines you will get some respect and see some serious tech knowledge and be helped fast------

to be honest i way the hell prefer installing man taking calls is hell it really is which is why im going back in 6 months! sorry about the typing im still taking calls

I understand your frustration. From the tech side of things, we see a lot of screwed up work orders, and one thing in particular, and maybe you can answer this for me. Roughly 90% (NOT an exageration) of customers I install systems for have not had the phone line requirement mentioned to them. I ask specifically after I get the blank stare and the usual "What? Why do I have to have a phone line hooked up? Nobody mentioned that." For the vast majority of customers, I'm the first person they've heard about the phone line requirement from. I'd like to know if that is something CSRs are required to disclose, and audited on? Or is it kind of an unwritten rule that they kind of "forget" to mention it, so as not to jeperodize the sale. Because, from what I see, it's almost like a "Fight Club" type mentality. Rule number 1: We don't talk about phone lines. Rule number two: We don't talk about phone lines. Rule number three: We don't talk about phone lines. etc.
 
Zero327

Zero327

SatelliteGuys Pro
Oct 8, 2006
931
0
The Emerald City
It's common knowledge but unless I'm mistaken it isn't loaded into all of the pop-up windows required to be read during activation (commonly referred to as "the disclosures.") No it's not audited, at least not after the first two weeks a given CSR is hired. To be honest, education isn't generally a sales tool so it isn't used proactively very often. Customers say they want the X22 that just came out if they're going to sign up, it has a big price tag, and off we go.
 
D

ddgtomahawk

SatelliteGuys Pro
Nov 20, 2007
261
0
TYRALAK--- Ha ha ok heres the difference that is sales and if its a partner making the sell i can promise you the sales rep promised the moon but those situations arent as common anymore crackdown on it recently-- now our direct sales is prompted with phone line fee but when they read their disclosure to the customer its a huge disclosure about everything so the customer never haers it uinless the SALES rep stresses it come on he is trying to sell here is all the disclosures for just DHA and some are still prompted when you setup so might lack a couple also the wording for the phoneline fee is sugar coated and customers cant hear it in the 5 minute dialogue-----
bullet.gif
Sales : Digital Home Advantage <DIV id=right_common>
  • Read all appropriate disclosures
  • Click on the check box - notice the text will gray out to indicate that you have completed this step.
  • Disclose all information in pop-ups
24-Hour Installation
  • 24-hour installation is available in most geographic areas; eligibility is based on your service address.

    24-hour installation is not available if you activate online.

    You must call by 2 p.m. in your time zone to qualify.

    The ViP622 DVR receiver is not eligible.

Account Setup
  • Cash If you pay by a cash option, installation will not occur until the payment is received from a Payment Center. Please call back 4 hours after making payment to schedule your install. If DISH is already installed, the account will be activated upon receipt of payment confirmation.

    No Promotion By not providing at least the last four digits of your Social Security number, you will be charged a $200 account set-up fee. This fee is non-refundable and is in addition to any equipment charges.
Equipment
  • HD DVR Receiver Upgrade There is a limit of one HD DVR receiver per account. In addition, the HD DVR receiver will be shipped to you prior to your installation date. In addition, the HD DVR receiver will be shipped to you prior to your installation date.

    24" Low Beam Your Digital Home Advantage equipment and promotion comes with our standard warranty which includes: 24/7 tech support, Advance Exchange Repair ($14.95 shipping) and a $99 In-Home service trip charge available if a problem can not be solved over the phone.

    Lease Ownership Certain equipment provided to you will remain the property of DISH Network at all times. If for some reason you are unable to maintain the minimum monthly service required, you must return the equipment within 30 days or be subject to unreturned equipment fees.

    Returns Equipment will need to be returned within 30 days of disconnection to avoid equipment return fees, which at a minimum is $______ per receiver. (Equipment Calculator)
Fees
  • Receiver Rental Fee The first receiver's rental fee is included in your basic programming package. There is an additional $5.00 per month rental fee per receiver beyond the first for each Standard receiver or $6.00 per month rental fee for each HD receiver beyond the first on your account.

    DVR Service Fee There will be a monthly charge of $5.98 per month for the DISH Network DVR Service. This fee does not apply with a subscription to America's Everything Pak.

    Phone Line Connection Fee The receiver we will install in your home is actually 2 systems in one. A $5.00 per month Additional Outlet Programming Access Fee will be charged to your account for each such receiver. However, this fee will be waived on a monthly basis if the receiver is continuously connected to your same land-based phone line.

    HD Enabling Fee HD receivers require a subscription to the HD Add On package. This programming may require a second dish antenna based on geographical location, provided at no charge at the time of initial installation. If you have an HD receiver and don’t subscribe to minimum HD programming you will be charged a $6.00 per month HD Enabling fee.
Installation
  • Your installer is scheduled to arrive between ______ & _____.

    • Programming Commitment

      Yes: The account holder or spouse of the account holder will need to be present for the entire installation.
      No: Someone over the age of 18 will need to be present for the entire installation.
    If the customer is renting: At the time of installation you will need written permission from your landlord or Homeowner's association allowing installation of the satellite dish, which will include at least one hole drilled in your wall.

    Your installation includes a 90 day warranty. If possible, please have a 3 foot clearance behind your televisions. If you need to reschedule, please notify us at least 24 hours in advance. To confirm, I have your address listed as ________. I have your home phone number listed as __________.

    If customer has an alt. phone number: I have your alternate phone number listed as __________.
    If not: Do you have an alternate phone number that we can contact you at?

Programming
  • Adult Programming Not available in all areas. Adult programming is not available where prohibited by law. (Alabama, Cincinnati, Mississippi, North Carolina, Oklahoma, Tennessee, Utah)
Qualification
  • To participate in the promotion, you must have a valid Social Security Number (or equivalent). The SSN is required to verify identification only and will not be used or shared.
Promotions
  • $100 Back If you subscribe to qualifying programming, submit a redemption form and a copy of your bill with DISH Network services within 60 days of activation, and you will receive a $10.00 credit each month for up to 10 consecutive months. You will forfeit any remaining credits in the case of a downgrade from qualifying programming of DishLATINO Plus or higher, or any international package priced at $29.98 or higher. Service disconnection prior to 10 months will also result in a forfeit of any remaining credits. The redemption form can be found at DISH Network
 
D

ddgtomahawk

SatelliteGuys Pro
Nov 20, 2007
261
0
Also quality assurance does "audit" all diclosures and if even one is skipped its an instant "not met" = automatic failure and write up then they mark the agent as red QA and "audit" them frequently more until the agent improves
 
DirectDishNet

DirectDishNet

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Pro
Nov 25, 2007
1,052
1
Davenport Iowa
Also quality assurance does "audit" all diclosures and if even one is skipped its an instant "not met" = automatic failure and write up then they mark the agent as red QA and "audit" them frequently more until the agent improves
Quality assurance?, I hate that. I got "FAILED" and backcharged for a job I did becaus the prewire cable that was comming out of the side of the house was too short. Like I could do anything about that. Another FAIL was because I used RG59 9' pre wire for a freaken back feed. another freaken backcharge was because the connectors were not tight and torqued enough. They QA'd my job with a torque wrench.
Sucks cuz after taking 1 to 2 hours to do a job and especially when I pay for my own diplexers, cable, ground blocks, fittings, bushings, bolts, time, gas & everything I use, I get a full back charge for the job?, I did it for free?, Makes me sick everytime I think about it.
 
Van

Van

SatelliteGuys Master
Jul 8, 2004
9,316
1
Virginia Beach
The problem that all four sides here ( customer, inhouse, sub/retailer, call center ) are missing or dont fully understand is that dish corporate has a problem with getting out up to date information on a timely basis if at all. Technical updates were added to folders but sporadicly handed out to techs and it was up to the individual tech to search for the tech notes binder to get new information.

When the cable flunkies started running adds back in 00 and 01 talking about how much satellite charged you the customer is when things started to change inregards to what you would be charged and it kept changing albeit slowly over the next 4 years or so. By word of mouth from management we would be told no charge for this but a charge for that and later it would change but only once did we get anything in black ink on white paper.

Dish inhouse charges for next to nothing so if I roll up to your house to do a four room install with two dishes and you decide you want all four lines wall fished and theres no phone jack located within easy reach then I as an inhouse would have to run all four lines as wall fishes and route two phone lines for the dual tuners if possible at no additional charge, and thats if I have to go into an attic and or crawl space. Want your dish(s) on a pole to? Well thats also no charge and so is the first 50ft of line trenching but after that theres a charge of a dollar per foot.

Now there are some exceptions, if the custom work required is going to push the time of the install past its allocated time frame then you will be charged an hourly labour rate of $59 an hour. If the work required to do the job falls under work that an requires an electrician then you will have to contact one and have him / her do that work because not a single dish inhouse tech is licensed to do electrical work for dish and the same goes for doing actual phone work wich is why they do not tap into your home phone box.

We all know what a half assed lazy install is, there are pictures plastered over atleast a thousand threads, none of the installers that frequent this site on a regular basis do work like that because they tend to be the ones showing the pics of the half assed hack work that they fixed and they deal with the " everything should be free because the cable company said so" mentality sometimes to severe extremes just as many of you the customer deal with those installers who are hacks but only once in a blue moon as compared to a daily occurence for the good installer.


PS

Keep in mind that not everything is free through cable, also keep in mind the added fee's and surchages and access charges and right of way and franchise fee's ontop of all the other odd ball fee's and periodic rate hikes that you get through cable.
 
H

haertig

SatelliteGuys Pro
May 21, 2004
505
0
As a customer (not an installer), I always deliberately question the CSRs from any company I deal with on the specific details of what I'm getting. I research forums like these so I know what I'm getting into long before I even talk to a CSR. Generally, I end up knowing more than the CSR about the product/service I am buying.

When it comes time to close the deal, I ask the CSR to send me a copy of the workorder they generated prior to the service person coming out. I ask, but they've always told me that was impossible. So I finish up by reading back to them my expectations (from the notes I took) and also tell them that I will review the workorder prior to letting the service person start any work. I tell the CSR, if there are any discrepencies in the workorder at service time, I will ask the service person to leave without even starting work. I ask the CSR to note that on the workorder so that the service person is aware ahead of time.

I check the workorder before work is started, just like I told the CSR I would. Maybe I've been lucky, or maybe my attention to detail in ordering the product/service has paid off, because I've never had any issues come service time.

From the description above some installers reading this might think that I'm a demanding and impossible customer. Not in the slightest. When the installer shows up, I'm usually the one who does the crawlspace work or attic work or drilling and doing any wall fishing that I might want. The installer is the one to do the more specialized work obviously, like mounting the Dish, aiming it correctly, etc. - but I can assist with the grunt work, and don't mind doing that.

We all end up happy. The installation goes much faster for the installer. I give them a sizeable tip. I know what was done and the quality of the work because I participated in it. Installers are usually more than happy to leave me with a few extra splitters, some extra RG-6 and other miscellaneous connectors and stuff that I might need for a future project.
 
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vegassatellite

vegassatellite

SatelliteGuys Pro
Pub Member / Supporter
Nov 5, 2007
3,319
174
Phoenix, AZ
Shut down fulfillment guys!

I have no stress and no disagreements with customers over what's included. I work for a couple of retailers and dictate the install details.

If you are contracting for another company and installing under terms you don't agree with, then you are just an employee without the benefits. Part of being in business for yourself is you get to control the terms you work under. If you're an employee working under terms you don't agree with, then move on!
 
DirectDishNet

DirectDishNet

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Pro
Nov 25, 2007
1,052
1
Davenport Iowa
Shut down fulfillment guys!

I have no stress and no disagreements with customers over what's included. I work for a couple of retailers and dictate the install details.

If you are contracting for another company and installing under terms you don't agree with, then you are just an employee without the benefits. Part of being in business for yourself is you get to control the terms you work under. If you're an employee working under terms you don't agree with, then move on!
Could not of have said that better myself
 
J

Jared Twomey

Supporting Founder
Supporting Founder
Mar 7, 2005
2,066
0
Tacoma, WA
First off, take a deep breath and take your meds. Then, please see section 1.2.4 of the attached Standard Professional Installation Guidelines.

If you notice... top line of your pdf says DNSC.... that is the guidelines for a dncs tech, not retailers.
 
J

Jared Twomey

Supporting Founder
Supporting Founder
Mar 7, 2005
2,066
0
Tacoma, WA
Shut down fulfillment guys!

I have no stress and no disagreements with customers over what's included. I work for a couple of retailers and dictate the install details.

If you are contracting for another company and installing under terms you don't agree with, then you are just an employee without the benefits. Part of being in business for yourself is you get to control the terms you work under. If you're an employee working under terms you don't agree with, then move on!

amen
 
vegassatellite

vegassatellite

SatelliteGuys Pro
Pub Member / Supporter
Nov 5, 2007
3,319
174
Phoenix, AZ
Contractors and retailers are different. DNS will not QAS as ob done by a retailer that was sold by the retailer. They will QAS a job done by a Dish subcontractor.

We've seen QAs on referral sales, but never on any that were generated directly by the retailer.
 
A

acoldstarnolds

Well-Known SatelliteGuys Member
Jan 2, 2005
27
0
This is a sore subject with me, Mr. Dish customer.
I told them I needed two hookups in my two front bedrooms that were not wired with coax. They said no problem, the guy will install those as part of our install service. Installer shows up, tells me he can only do it from an outside wall.
This would not work as both bedrooms are on the front of the house and having a black cable run down the front of my house in two different places would look pretty bad. Besides that, the televisions are not on that wall, I have wood floors and would have to run a cable around the wall to the complete other side.
He left that day and promised me he would be back the following Saturday to do the wall drops. He did not show up of course. When I called Dish they sent a different guy out. When he found out what the previous guy did he would not touch the install because he told me Dish would not pay him to fix or complete someone else's f'up. By now I was pretty mad.
I called Dish, told them to come get all their equipment off my roof and good riddance.
They then sent me an "independent installer" who spent three hours getting the first install correct and doing the drops. I had to pay him for the inside the wall drops but by then I just wanted to get it over with. Since that money was going in his pocket for my inside drops I felt better about paying for it.
If Dish had told me up front I could have hired someone to do the drops and avoided all of this hassle.
All of these problems were after taking time off of work twice and the installer not showing up.

Dish customer service will tell you anything.:mad:
 
S

Sharper

SatelliteGuys Family
Jun 17, 2005
49
0
Sorry, you have been denied. Fresh warm fries are not part of the standard package. You get the old soft heat lamp fries. If you would like, I could have our new guy make you some half cooked ones, but I sure aint doing anything for you cause I refuse to do my job the way I am supposed to. I am here to occupy a position and maybe do something if it doesnt require any effort.

On a somewhat related note, if a fast food place looks slow, order your fries with no salt. That'll force 'em to wait for a new batch that they haven't salted yet to come out of the fryer in order to fill your order.

It may take an extra minute or two to get your fries, but they'll be hot and fresh.

Got that tip from my wife who worked as a fast food manager in college. :hungry:
 

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