This is for VOOM: Please read (stb PQ) (1 Viewer)

ChetK

SatelliteGuys Pro
May 14, 2004
981
8
Round Rock, TX
Tim,

If that's the case, I'd honestly say stick with what you've got. :eek: :shocked

[themindseye]What's this? A Voomer telling people they shouldn't subscribe to Voom?[/themindseye] Fix the picture quality issue and I wouldn't have to. :rolleyes:
 

Vreesar

SatelliteGuys Pro
May 17, 2004
167
0
Chicago Suburbs
My neighbor, brother, and I all wanted to check out Voom. So now that I have it we decided to try out an experiment. So, I've been testing for the last 5 days and what with rain, thunder, lightning and clear skys I think I've gotten just about every atmospheric condition that might cause a problem.
Here's the setup...

My TV : Panasonic TH-50PX20PU DVI to HDMI
Brothers TV : Sony KDE50XBR950 DVI to DVI
Neighbors TV : Mitsubishi PD-5010 DVI to DVI
DirectV
DishNetwork
VOOM

Brother is getting rid of his Sony for a different Plasma and Neighbor REALLY wanted to know how the HD looked so we brought both displays to my place and hooked them up. I now have the ability to watch any show in HD from either of the three providers on either of the three TV's pretty much without having to get up from the couch.
So here is what I did. I used Discovery HD as my baseline channel and switched back and forth between providers and TV's to see if I could tell a difference in PQ. For the most part I couldn't. What I mean is that I tended to notice a difference some times with the Sony and Mitsubishi TV's. Not the providers. They were worse at times compared to my Panny but only for VERY short time intervals. Almost like there was to much data for a second or so. I then started checking other HD channels such as HBO, etc.. between all the TV's. I began to notice a difference in PQ at times not with the providers but between TV's once again. I especially noticed more pixilation on the Sony during explosions and very high bandwidth transmissions. I also noticed that a few times while watching DirecTV the Mitsubishi Looked better than the Sony and the picture was much better than Voom though I couldn't tell a difference between my panasonic and the Mitsubishi(watching DirecTV) no matter what provider the panasonic was on. I don't understand why I am seeing these differences but there they are.

Now, to be completely thorough and honest, Friday I noticed a HUGE difference in PQ with VOOM. There were PQ issues over multiple channels including DiscoveryHD were as DirectV and DishNetwork didn't have any problems. This was during a time were the sky was clear with no noticable clouds.

So, at this point in time I don't see a problem with VOOM PQ normally but I do see a problem with different TV's. This leads me to believe that maybe what everyone has seen as PQ problems may not be the VOOM receiver but the TV and the communication between TV's and the Sat receivers.....

Anyway, there's my own personal findings using my house as a lab. Get from the tests what you like :D

Think its time I get rid of dish and directv hehe
 

DarrellP

Thread Starter
I Think, therefore, I am.
Supporting Founder
Nov 6, 2003
4,298
0
Salem, OR
barth2k said:
Anyone knows who makes the DVR? Maybe worth getting just to get away from Motorola.

Darrell: have you tried component and see if that's better? some people say it actually improves the pq.
Last night I watched Jay Leno via Component and I have to say that I did not see any of the little "squiggies" in small detail that is normally present, so maybe it's just the DVI output that sucks.

In less than 24 hours Disney went from good to bad. How can that be from an STB?
Just curious.
I'm not blaming the stb on this, just bitching about the drop in PQ.
 

DarrellP

Thread Starter
I Think, therefore, I am.
Supporting Founder
Nov 6, 2003
4,298
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Salem, OR
wbuffetta said:
I Think The PQ Issue & The CLOUD Fade Issue are do in Part By the Motorola stb. I Don't Have E* But I Know People Who Do & They Never Have Had Rain Fade Issues With The 61.5 Sat.
My rain fade in the NW was the same with Dish as it is with Voom, there's just no getting through that mass of water. There is no difference.
 

gutter

SatelliteGuys Pro
Supporting Founder
May 26, 2004
1,510
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I think I have read that VOOM doubles incrips because of the Motorola box. MPEG2 and Digisypher. I didn't believe it before nor did I want to believe it. Why compress twice? That is where the bandwith goes. As for the Vrseesar, I didn't see any comparison of OTA local digital from Motorola and any other box. That is where I most notice the crushed colors. The luminance coming out of the Motorola box is so high that I have to crank down the brightness by nearly 50%. As someone reported there is a tendency for the picture bend toward the green. I am getting a new Motorola box tomorrow but I really don't expect it to be different. I may just go back to my old STB or the locals and keep the VOOM box for the satellite. My wife will surely divorce me then.
 

bbtkd

SatelliteGuys Pro
Apr 11, 2004
309
1
The problem with PQ is that it is very subjective, and there are so many variables: the program itself, the source (HBO, ESPN, etc), Voom, the STB, the cables, the TV, and the viewer - and their expectations, experience, vision, memory, mood, etc.

I was recently watching a movie (How to lose a guy in 10 days) that looked sharp in HD, except the final scene where the director apparently chose to "soften" the picture. Since I have seen it several times, and since that part of the moview was supposed to be "touching" I presume that this is not a PQ problem - it was intended to be that way.

Not sure that there is a good and objective way to consistently compare PQ, so not sure it is worth the bandwidth on this forum to try. Heck - we can't even agree what PQ encompasses. My definition of PQ is the sharpness, contrast, color, etc - but would not include pixelation, black picture, lost sound - since those are symptoms of signal loss.
 

gutter

SatelliteGuys Pro
Supporting Founder
May 26, 2004
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bbtkd...wish I could totally agree with you. I think PQ is well worth the bandwith on this forum to discuss. I agree with your definition of PQ and that is what I have the issue with. I am not blaming VOOM per say but I am blaming the decision to use Motorola. I can A and B between by OTA STB and the same local OTA digital on the Motorola. The sharpness is not there, colors are crushed and lack detail. The Satellite is a bit better but no "Wow." factor as I had expected. I also agree that pixelation, temporary black picture, lost sound are not PQ issues but they are issues with the Motorola box and another reason that VOOM should consider another provider. Again I wish they wouldn't double encrypt but I understand why with the need to provide more selection. I hope that is not the case in the future.
 

DarrellP

Thread Starter
I Think, therefore, I am.
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Nov 6, 2003
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Salem, OR
Well, I just got my first glimpse of EquatorHD and it is ridden with video noise. At 8:56 they were showing a bridge with lots of suspension cables and the noise was horrendous, it looked like a bunch of mosquitos buzzing on the screen.

It is NOT my pj, I watch Dish HD and it is immaculate, no noise at all. I've tried DVI, Component, different resolutions, it does not matter, the Voom signal has too much compression in it.

The show that just came on "Painting Country" could look phenomenol, but it is loaded with video noise. If this was on HDNET or DiscoveryHD on Dish, it would be fantastic. Come on, Voom, give us more bandwidth, it may look fine on a 42" plasma but it does not cut it at 110".
 

Sean Mota

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Supporting Founder
Sep 8, 2003
19,040
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New York City
DarrellP said:
Well, I just got my first glimpse of EquatorHD and it is ridden with video noise. At 8:56 they were showing a bridge with lots of suspension cables and the noise was horrendous, it looked like a bunch of mosquitos buzzing on the screen.

It is NOT my pj, I watch Dish HD and it is immaculate, no noise at all. I've tried DVI, Component, different resolutions, it does not matter, the Voom signal has too much compression in it.

The show that just came on "Painting Country" could look phenomenol, but it is loaded with video noise. If this was on HDNET or DiscoveryHD on Dish, it would be fantastic. Come on, Voom, give us more bandwidth, it may look fine on a 42" plasma but it does not cut it at 110".

I saw the "Painting Country" and did not see the video noise yesterday. I did see it in the "London to Oxford" program. I agree with you it has to do with a compression and I have also seen the same from my PBS station when they multicast.
 

Dvlos

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jun 5, 2004
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I had no video noise or compression artifacts on either "Painting COuntry" nor the NYC one. I am starting to agree with Vreesar, my inlaws have DirecTV on their 50" and all their SD channels have PQ issues, just not as bad as mine with Voom. But my TV is 10" bigger, so all the imperfections start to multiple, however they look perfectly clear on standard TVs. I think perhaps my TV on the DVI with SD channels makes things worse, but HD on DVI looks pretty damn good. I do agree that Voom needs to include more bandwidth per channel as soon as they can (or if MPG4 and WM9 will allow better PQ for the same bandwidth then problem solved).
 

DarrellP

Thread Starter
I Think, therefore, I am.
Supporting Founder
Nov 6, 2003
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Salem, OR
The noise was there. It may not have been as bad as other shows but it was there. If they gave this channel maybe another 2 Mbs of bandwidth, it would have the WOW factor.
 

JWK

SatelliteGuys Family
Apr 12, 2004
41
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Yeah, noticed some noise on Equater, myself -- also in that London show.

Also seemed like some other Voom channels were noisier than usual starting yesterday. Couldn't help wondering if Equator was given more bandwidth than Epics had (yet not enough for what it needed), and the bandwidth came from someplace else.

I've honestly got no idea. Plus, I don't really see how Epics could've been lower bandwidth, since didn't the "wow factor" promos play on Epics, just like all the other channels? (And I don't remember 'em looking bad, when/if they did)
 

rvaidyan

SatelliteGuys Family
May 24, 2004
37
0
Duluth, MN
Yes, definite mosquito noise during London to Oxford. I too seemed to notice it on a couple of other channels yesterday. They also seemed to have some serious dropout issues on 701 during the day.

On my PG, ch. 122 still says EPICS. Will they be changing that soon?
 

aqela

SatelliteGuys Family
May 31, 2004
40
0
Boonieville, Thumb Area, MI
If you had 4DTV, you'd know how inherently crappy any TV related device with Motorola stamped on it is. Being bought out by Motorola was the worst thing that happened to General Instruments (now Motorola Broadband), because we 4DTV owners have been neglected greatly by motorola. The one quality that Motorola reciever products have over the competition is the rock-solid encryption of DigiCipher2. Other than that, there is nothing to brag about. My 4DTV is slow, 5 years behind, and lacking technologies implemented in 50 dollar DirecTV recievers, and it still has an MSRP of $600. I hope Motorola eventually sells the rights for DC2 to someone who cares about the product.
 

gutter

SatelliteGuys Pro
Supporting Founder
May 26, 2004
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agela...

Could not agree with you more. My 4dtv is 10 years old I will be damned if I am going to by a $750 additional unit from Motorola to just watch a few channels. I just hope VOOM selects another vendor. I don't understand why they double compress using both the MGEG2 and digicipher. Today VOOM replaced my box and the PQ was slightly better. Not as good on the local digitals as my other box. I have decided to use my old box for the locals instead of the Voom. But the HD did look a tad better with the replacement box. However, How I have to recalibrate my set all over again as there is another color shift using this new box.
 

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