This says "moving" is against the law????

bobsie

SatelliteGuys Family
Pub Member / Supporter
Oct 16, 2006
95
22
Alpena, MI
The short answer is that the rules for broadcast station carriage are different for cable and satellite. To get into a little more detail, it sounds like your market (Alpena) is a "short market" (lacking an in-market NBC station) so it is necessary to import an out-of-market affiliate to fill in the gap. There are two different types of out-of-market stations that can be offered: distant networks and Significantly Viewed stations. The important distinction is that distant networks do not require retransmission consent from the station, while Significantly Viewed stations do require retransmission consent (and thus some form of payment to the station). Significantly Viewed stations are considered "local" to the out-of-market areas where they meet the criteria for Significantly Viewed status, but those areas are individual counties and communities, not necessarily the entire market, even if that market is a neighboring "short market" like yours. In such a case, for Dish to carry that station to serve your entire market, they would have to use two different copyright licenses with different rules governing each license, with the station being considered Significantly Viewed in part of your market, and "distant" for the rest of the market. The alternative may be to split your market into multiple "markets" for the purpose of the satellite-delivered local package, with different out-of-market NBC affiliates being offered in different parts of the Alpena market, so that everyone would get the affiliate that is the most "local" to their area. In these cases, Dish seems to prefer to import an affiliate from farther away, that is truly distant to the entire market. That way, there is no legal question over which copyright license is being used to carry the station, or any confusion over whether or not the station needs to be removed during a retransmission consent dispute. It is also possible that the Saginaw/Flint station just happened to be on a spot-beam that covers the entire Alpena market, while the spot-beam for the Cadillac locals might not cover the entire Alpena market. By contrast, cable providers do not need to worry as much about being able to cover their entire service area with the same locals under the same copyright license, since cable service areas are broken down into multiple local franchise areas. Even individual local franchise areas can be split even further for copyright purposes, if a station is considered to be Significantly Viewed for only a portion of the franchise area, for example.
Thanks, I'll take that as a "no" to my question then. :hatsoff
 
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mwdxer1

SatelliteGuys Pro
Nov 3, 2015
1,008
830
Seaside Oregon
At one time, I thought they had a backend system that verified service address against the IP registered by an internet-connected receiver. This had the dual effect of being able to catch "stackers" as well.
Some people do not have a landline, so no IP address verification is available. Or they may not have their receivers hooked up to the phone line.
 

Juan

Supporting Founder
Supporting Founder
Sep 14, 2003
23,242
4,862
Moscow Russia
If you had too many receivers and nothing connected to a phoneline...you would have to deal with the dreaded audit team...in the olden days
Some people do not have a landline, so no IP address verification is available. Or they may not have their receivers hooked up to the phone line.
Sent from my SM-G950U using the SatelliteGuys app!
 
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crodrules

The Happy Pessimist
Jun 14, 2014
4,695
3,488
North Central Ohio
Can you start quoting the first message that has you guys give the first warning? I want to see what we can’t say.
I agree with this 100 percent! As it is, it makes it look like the warning was being given about this post immediately before the warning:
I have been 'moved' for almost ten years. I am still waiting for anyone to question my eligibility. If there's ever a problem, I'll drop locals entirely and rely only on my OTA.
Obviously, there is nothing wrong with this post, since it is on-topic and non-political.

I have been a victim of this myself, with the warning appearing immediately after one of my posts, and I complained about it at the time. Part of the problem is that the moderators can still see the deleted posts, even though we can't, so they may not even notice the context where their warning is appearing in the edited version of the thread. If they are not going to quote the offending message (and I could see why they would not want to quote it, since that would defeat the purpose of deleting it) then they should at least call out the offending poster(s) by name, so we know whose posts to which they are referring, even if we can't see what specifically was said, or why they were found offensive.
:idea
 

crodrules

The Happy Pessimist
Jun 14, 2014
4,695
3,488
North Central Ohio
I still have my 211k that does not offer on demand. There are still a lot of older receivers old there that has no internet/wifi connection.
The ViP211k does have an ethernet port for connecting to the internet. It is also capable of connecting via Wi-Fi if you add one of the Dish-branded Netgear Wi-Fi adapters. (That is how I have my ViP222k connected to the internet.) Having said that, on these particular models (ViP211 series and ViP222 series) connecting them via internet offers no additional features or benefits compared to connecting a phone line to them. Now, if you had mentioned an even older receiver, such as a 512 for example, then you might have a point. :)
 
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mwdxer1

SatelliteGuys Pro
Nov 3, 2015
1,008
830
Seaside Oregon
The ViP211k does have an ethernet port for connecting to the internet. It is also capable of connecting via Wi-Fi if you add one of the Dish-branded Netgear Wi-Fi adapters. (That is how I have my ViP222k connected to the internet.) Having said that, on these particular models (ViP211 series and ViP222 series) connecting them via internet offers no additional features or benefits compared to connecting a phone line to them. Now, if you had mentioned an even older receiver, such as a 512 for example, then you might have a point. :)
Seems to me I was told the internet connection does nothing, as you mentioned, so it might as well not be there. I bought a Fire Stick to get Dish Anywhere. Also I have no internet cord available over where the 211k is. I know several people that do not even have a landline, just cel phones and also no internet as it is too expensive.
 
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Cheddar_Head

SatelliteGuys Pro
Feb 13, 2008
547
686
Colorado Springs
Huh? Your receiver pulls an IP address if it's connected via ethernet or wifi.
But they don't geolocate on the 10.x.x.x address the Hopper gets from my DHCP server, they geolocate on the external address assigned by your ISP or VPN provider.

Google puts me anywhere from Maryland to Florida to Oregon plus a dozen other places depending on which exit point is active from my VPN.
 
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crodrules

The Happy Pessimist
Jun 14, 2014
4,695
3,488
North Central Ohio
Seems to me I was told the internet connection does nothing, as you mentioned, so it might as well not be there. I bought a Fire Stick to get Dish Anywhere. Also I have no internet cord available over where the 211k is. I know several people that do not even have a landline, just cel phones and also no internet as it is too expensive.
I hear you about not having an internet cord available where the receivers are. That is why all of mine are connected via Wi-Fi. In your case, with only one receiver on your account, it might not make any difference whether it is connected or not. However, for someone with multiple receivers on the Dish account, it is a good idea to keep them all connected by any means possible (phone line or internet) in order to avoid the potential audit situation mentioned earlier in the thread.
 

mwdxer1

SatelliteGuys Pro
Nov 3, 2015
1,008
830
Seaside Oregon
I hear you about not having an internet cord available where the receivers are. That is why all of mine are connected via Wi-Fi. In your case, with only one receiver on your account, it might not make any difference whether it is connected or not. However, for someone with multiple receivers on the Dish account, it is a good idea to keep them all connected by any means possible (phone line or internet) in order to avoid the potential audit situation mentioned earlier in the thread.
It is one owned receiver and I doubt that will change. If anything, I may be forced to move to a newer receiver in time. But I like the 211k with everything in one box, the receiver and the OTA tuner. Plus the add of the HDD. The 211k was a good choice by Dish. I wish they would have continued to put out a similar type receiver today. Building a Hopper with the same software should have been included.
 
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crodrules

The Happy Pessimist
Jun 14, 2014
4,695
3,488
North Central Ohio
I agree with navychop. For me, the convenience of the additional satellite tuner and additional OTA tuner make up for the inconvenience of having to add a USB adapter to be able to get OTA at all. The Wally also has On Demand and Apps built in. So basically, compared to mwdxer1's setup, I am adding an OTA adapter but eliminating the Fire Stick, which makes it a wash as far as how much equipment is required. (I realize that a lot more programming is available through the Fire Stick, but I am just speaking in terms of accessing Dish programming and some other popular streaming apps such as Netflix and Pandora.)
 

crodrules

The Happy Pessimist
Jun 14, 2014
4,695
3,488
North Central Ohio
Why not a Hopper 3?
The main drawback of a Hopper 3 (or any Hopper) is that if that one box dies, the entire system goes down. (I know, that is why many members on here have more than one Hopper 3 for redundancy.) Also, with my setup, I get to avoid the $15 monthly DVR fee. Additional receivers (or clients) cost the same amount either way, $7 per month for another Wally (or Joey). For me, the added features of whole-home integration, PTAT, AutoHop, and any additional apps that may only be available on the Hopper 3, are nice to have but not absolutely essential. Plus, there is no way that I would ever need to record 16 (or more, depending on whether you use PTAT and/or add an OTA adapter) shows at a time, so the Hopper 3 seems like a bit of overkill.
 
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Bobby

Publican
Supporting Founder
Sep 7, 2003
57,233
10,654
Rohnert Park, CA
I never find a need to record/watch 16 things at the same time either. I do have many times when I am recording/watching 6 or 7 things though so that makes a Hopper 3 very beneficial for me.
 

The Fat Man

Poster of Randomness
Lifetime Supporter
Oct 2, 2010
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5,195
Land where we pronounce our "R" as "ah"
Put it this way, I have in the past Hackintoshed a PC to run a purchased version of macOS. I haven't done it in over a year now, and it was for personal use. I never did this for anyone other than myself. That's against the EULA, yet not illegal. I see that as being more taboo than "moving". That's regardless of how much bullcrap I think both are.
 
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