TiVo and DISH / Echostar head back to Texas for another patent duel

[jacmyoung]

RIM actually paid $162M, hardly the $612M you would purport to impress everyone.

They were going to pay $450M and in fact already paid that amount a year prior to the settlement anyway.

At the time of settlement, the USPTO had not decided to invalidate the patent, and the judge did not agree to stay the action of considering an injunction when RIM asked for such stay citing their reexamination request.

The judge simply used the threat to coax RIM to settle.

In this case, no threat is made by Judge Folsom, and Charlie is not someone who would blink at a threat anyway.

What I am saying is, the USPTO will issue a decision soon, if the decision is to invalidate the patent, while TiVo may appeal, and during the appeal, technically TiVo's patent will still be valid, the district court certainly has the discretion to stay the current proceeding, whatever is it, until the final outcome of the TiVo's appeal.

You don't think Charlie will be shy of motion to the district court or even appeal to the higher court for a stay of action if this is the case do you?

let's use some common sense here, if the USPTO examiner's decision is that the TiVo's patent is not patentable, and if that decision comes out before the end of this case or before a settlement, even if TiVo's appeals may take years, you still think E* should be punished for anything, consider that E* had already paid for the last "sin" committed, which could well be an injustice as a result of the USPTO not doing their job right in the first place?

 

[Thomas22]

RIM actually paid $162M, hardly the $612M you would purport to impress everyone.

Rim paid $612.5 million.

Here is the wire transfer order: http://i.n.com.com/pdf/ne/2006/escrow_order.pdf

If Rim had settled earlier they might have been able to pay less. The lesson is that the longer a settlement takes, the more expensive it gets.

In this case, no threat is made by Judge Folsom,

In this case there already is an injunction.

 

[jacmyoung]

Rim paid $612.5 million.

Here is the wire transfer order: http://i.n.com.com/pdf/ne/2006/escrow_order.pdf

If Rim had settled earlier they might have been able to pay less. The lesson is that the longer a settlement takes, the more expensive it gets.

You made it sound like the judge's injunction threat resulted in some $612M payment from RIM to NTP, but the devil is in the detail, that threat only resulted in a $162M payment, the other $450M RIM had already paid into an ascrow account a year earlier through an earlier settlement.

In this case there already is an injunction.

Did that threat stop Charlie from settling? Did that threat get TiVo to find E* in contempt?

The lesson learned? RIM should have proceeded with their design around as they said they would, to avoid further infringement, but they chickened out and ended up paying $162M too much.

What do you think if some of the NTP's patent claims will in the end be invalid? Wouldn't RIM be kicking themselves for settling back then?

You know back in 06 Time Warner and DirecTV each was kicking themselves for settling with Forgent for $20M and $8M respectively, only to find out a few weeks later E* managed to kick Forgent out on the curb in that lawsuit.

 

[Thomas22]

RIM still had not paid much of the $600M.

OK, I'll play along. How much of the $612.5 million has Rim still not paid?

 

[jacmyoung]

OK, I'll play along. How much of the $612.5 million has Rim still not paid?

That was a wild claim to get people to bring out the best of them You know the details, instead of feeding people with horror stories.

The point? Which lesson do you want to learn, or do you simply find satisfaction that you could point out some mistake in me, never mind TiVo still has yet pried one additional penny out of Charlie ever since the last ruling three years ago?

 

[Thomas22]

the other $450M RIM had already paid into an ascrow account a year earlier through an earlier settlement.

No. Once again you are making stuff up. There was no earlier settlement. If there had been an earlier settlement the money would have been given to NTP.

 

[Thomas22]

That was a wild claim

AKA "lie".

 

[jacmyoung]

No. Once again you are making stuff up. There was no earlier settlement. If there had been an earlier settlement the money would have been given to NTP.

Read your own:

RIM, which is based in Waterloo, Ontario, had already put away $450 million in escrow, the amount of a settlement in 2005 that later fell apart. RIM will record the additional $162.5 million in its fourth-quarter results.

There was an earlier settlement, and RIM had already put $450M in an escrow, they only had to pay another $162M as a result of chickening out at the judge's injunction threat.

Again, devil is in the detail.

 

[jacmyoung]

AKA "lie".

"Lier lier pants on fire" never gets you too far in the court of law especially when the "lie" gets the other side to spell the beans that can doom its own theory.

 

[Thomas22]

There was an earlier settlement, and RIM had already put $450M in an escrow, they only had to pay another $162M as a result of chickened out at the judge's injunction threat.

There was no earlier settlement. Rim thought there was. They were wrong.

RIM just can't catch a break. Following ruling after ruling against the Blackberry manufacturer, a federal judge has now decided that the disputed $450 million settlement with NTP that RIM was looking to have enforced is not in fact valid. District Judge James Spencer could next decide to reissue an injunction that would suspend Blackberry service in the US, which might effectively force RIM to cough up as much as $1 billion to avoid. All of this action comes while the validity of NTP's original patents is still in question, but that is still an issue for the Patent Office and thus has no bearing on the current proceedings.

 

[jacmyoung]

There was no earlier settlement. Rim thought there was. They were wrong.

RIM already agreed to pay and in fact had already practically paid $450M a year earlier by putting that money in the escrow, the judge wasn't satisfied, and made a threat, and RIM agreed to pay another $162M as a result of such threat.

Happy now?

BTW, there was also this "wild claim" that it could have cost RIM as much as $1 billion if RIM did not settle, was this how some of the TiVo folks came up with the $500M E* would have to pay if they did not settle?

You think Charlie is shaking in his boots?

TiVo did not even make a real effort to prove E*'s new design continues to infringe. Keep in mind for TiVo as the "mover" in this contempt proceeding to actually prove a contempt, TiVo must prove by clear and convincing evidence that the new design is still an infringement. The burden of proof in this situation is actually higher than during the jury trial.

TiVo isn't even trying this time around, do you know why? They can't, E* made those changes and TiVo themselves cannot deny such changes.

All TiVo has been able to do is to say, but E* violated the injunction "on the face", or E*'s new design still "parses"

"On the face" or "on the parse", my arse

 

[Curtis0620]

DISH's record so far in this has been awesome. 0 wins at all stages. No reason to believe they will not lose again.

 

[Thomas22]

RIM already agreed to pay and in fact had already practically paid $450M a year earlier by putting that money in the escrow, the judge wasn't satisfied, and made a threat, and RIM agreed to pay another $162M as a result of such threat.

The problem was that there was no agreement. The talks broke down. Rim never gave any money to NTP because there never was an agreement. Judge Spencer agreed that there never was an agreement. Rim had to start over and try to work out an agreement. NTP had no claim to a single centavo of settlement money until the settlement was reached. The settlement amount was $612.5 million and every penny was given to NTP on 3-3-06.

 

[jacmyoung]

The problem was that there was no agreement. The talks broke down. Rim never gave any money to NTP because there never was an agreement. Judge Spencer agreed that there never was an agreement. Rim had to start over and try to work out an agreement. NTP had no claim to a single centavo of settlement money until the settlement was reached. The settlement amount was $612.5 million and every penny was given to NTP on 3-3-06.

And applying RIM case to this case how? Why avoid the real issues here? TiVo has no case on the contempt issue, that is why after 11 months into the contempt proceeding, they still got nothing.

DISH's record so far in this has been awesome. 0 wins at all stages. No reason to believe they will not lose again.

E* only lost to TiVo once, that was three years ago, right after that loss, E*, D* and TW were sued by Forgent for a similar DVR patent infringement, as I said earlier, D* and TW chickened out at the last minute and settled with Forgent for $8M and $20M each, only to find out a few weeks later E* had thrown Forgent out on the curb, that was right after E* lost to TiVo back then, and Charlie relied on the same lawyers to win that Forgent case for him, talk about having the faith and guts.

Since then E* managed to delay the case by appealing, and TiVo did not get to see that money for three years until late last year.

DISH's record so far in this has been awesome. 0 wins at all stages. No reason to believe they will not lose again.

TiVo lost to E* in this case once too, they lost on the treble and attorney fee argument, the judge denied TiVo's request to be paid treble and attorney fees.

E* not only managed to delay the payment to TiVo for three years, they also managed to have the appeals court to stay the injunction for nearly two years too, during which time E* was able to design around the TiVo's patent without disabling any of their DVRs.

Most importantly TiVo has yet since gotten one extra penny from E*, the record is there for you to see, if only you are willing to see it.

 

[Thomas22]

And applying RIM case to this case how? Why avoid the real issues here?

Don't you remember? You are the one that made up the stuff about the case. It took a while to get you to admit it. This thread would be a lot shorter if you would stop making stuff up.

Yeah but how much did RIM actually pay? Not much after all,

LOL

 

[Curtis0620]

And applying RIM case to this case how? Why avoid the real issues here? TiVo has no case on the contempt issue, that is why after 11 months into the contempt proceeding, they still got nothing.



E* only lost to TiVo once, that was three years ago, right after that loss, E*, D* and TW were sued by Forgent for a similar DVR patent infringement, as I said earlier, D* and TW chickened out at the last minute and settled with Forgent for $8M and $20M each, only to find out a few weeks later E* had thrown Forgent out on the curb, that was right after E* lost to TiVo back then, and Charlie relied on the same lawyers to win that Forgent case for him, talk about having the faith and guts.

Since then E* managed to delay the case by appealing, and TiVo did not get to see that money for three years until late last year.



TiVo lost to E* in this case once too, they lost on the treble and attorney fee argument, the judge denied TiVo's request to be paid treble and attorney fees.

E* not only managed to delay the payment to TiVo for three years, they also managed to have the appeals court to stay the injunction for nearly two years too, during which time E* was able to design around the TiVo's patent without disabling any of their DVRs.

Most importantly TiVo has yet since gotten one extra penny from E*, the record is there for you to see, if only you are willing to see it.

LOST the case.
LOST the Appeal
LOST the appeal to the Supreme Court.

that's 0 for 3

 

[jacmyoung]

LOST the case.
LOST the Appeal
LOST the appeal to the Supreme Court.

that's 0 for 3

E* never had much chance after the jury found them infringing, E* admitted so themselves, the appeals allowed them time to design around the patent without having to disable the DVRs.

The E* lawyers learned a lesson from the TiVo loss three years ago, and Charlie had the guts to let them continue to do the work for him, and the same lawyers have since done everything Charlie had expected them to do, from winning the Forgent case, from denying TiVo's attempt to get treble and attorney fees or disabling the DVRs.

Charlie is no RIM, nor D* nor TW.

Having said that, I do not totally rule out a settlement, but stop spreading the baseless rumor that doomsday is coming.

 

[Thomas22]

E* never had much chance after the jury found them infringing, E* admitted so themselves

Stop making stuff up.

“We are pleased that the Federal Court found that EchoStar has a ‘substantial case on the merits’ and blocked the Texas decision for the duration of the appeal,” EchoStar said in a prepared statement.

“This action by the Federal Court reinforces our belief that the Texas court made significant errors during the trial process, and we look forward to complete vindication of our position,” the company added.

 

[jacmyoung]

Stop making stuff up.

Their internal memo showed so in the court transcripts. E* simply copied TiVo's DVR at the time, they could have developed their own, they already had the ultimate TV and Dishplayer DVRs. It was stupid and E* paid a price for such stupidity back then. A lesson learned.

The rest are politics, the bottom line will be the end result.

Care to wage your bet? On what basis? That TiVo won last time or on the current TiVo's 1/4 arsed effort?

Show me yours that you have displayed somewhere else.

 

[Thomas22]

E* never had much chance after the jury found them infringing, E* admitted so themselves

If you aren't making it up, let's see a quote from Dish saying they never had much chance after the jury found them infringing.