Tivo hires former Dish executive as Chief Marketing Officer

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There won't be much of a learning curve since Dish stole Tivo's software, as judged, and was later forced to pay for it and subsequent licensing fees...just need to deal with far less buggy and more feature-laden DVRs. Piece of cake!
 
What were they thinking? Hiring the Marketing Guy from a company that only recently has had half decent marketing?
 
I'm sure it's been discussed here before, but just how did Dish get their hands on Tivo's software...just curious.
 
Supposedly they left a working model with DISH- to consider partnering with TIVO for their receivers - and they deconstructed it to figure out how it worked and viola we had the 500 /721/921pvrs series. They never gave back the Tivo either. Of course this was the story I remember being told back when Tivo won the lawsuit that gave them all that money from DISH. I tend to believe it, since many software items on the 500/721/921 pvrs, had to be changed to do what they did already the Tivo way, the new DISH way -mainly the time warp software that allows you to start over a show while recording, so they could say that they didn't steal the Tivo software. This of course didn't save DISH from having to pay out the big bucks when they lost their case. The judge and jury believed TIVO and made Charlie pay for the past years + license the Tivo software to continue using it in the Newer line of Receivers with name based recording. The older pvr receivers were finally dropped from support as well as the newer 942 dvr receivers-all but the 500 series of pvr that some are still in use. Supposedly they will someday be permanently retired, if they haven't already done so.
 
Didn't they in fact settle at the last minute, and there never was an actual verdict handed down?
 
An out of court settlement was reached as the circuit court pretty much ruled that TiVo's challenge to Dish's work around would likely required I 're a whole new trail from step 1 while also, as higher courts often do, criticize the infamous Tyler Texas patent trail court that one Supreme Court justice has referred to it as a "rouge"court. The Tyler Texas court is almost always being overruled upon appeal.

Settlement is no license fees, but only two cash payments for lifetime license to ALL TiVo technology while allowing TiVo same rights to select Dish Tech. This is not the settlement Tom Rogers wanted, but after so many years this with no cash to show for it, he was quoted, "I don't want to wait for the [Supreme] court" and took what seemed Charlie's deal that had been on the table all along as it is nearly identical to the Gemstar/TV Guide settlement with Dish years earlier. Gemstar/TV Guide sued ALL the MVPDs and Dish won that suit, but that trail was ruled invalid and a few weeks later they came to an agreement

Further, Tom Rogers had stated that any MVPD who would not agree to a partnership to use TiVo would be sued, and he did sue several other MVPDs and set top box makers of DVRs. Right. They all stole TiVo tech and violated TiVo patents, to. NOT.
 
That's what I was getting at. Patent law (or more accurately, those who abuse it) is so overreaching that it isn't just about violations of product infringement (as it should be), but it is more and more used as a tool to stifle innovation from any other competitor that has a similar general concept.

I have no doubt that Dish stole Tivo's product/code, but for Gemstar and Tivo to threaten suits against all MVPDs who did not bow down to them is just abusive and criminal.
 
Didn't they in fact settle at the last minute, and there never was an actual verdict handed down?

I couldn't remember if it was a verdict or a settlement ,but the outcome still was the same: Charlie paid to license the software going forward and paid some big bucks for previous years that they used Tivo software without legal permission.
 
There was a verdict, Dish was found in violation, it was appealed all the way up to the Supreme Court. They settled before a permanent injunction against Dish DVRs was going to be enforced. Dish does not give up 500 million easily.
 
Yes,a verdict, but Dish had removed the vast majority of "offenxing" DVRRs and had a ready inventory to replace the few that were still in some homes. Knowing this TiVo changed tactics and focused on the work around as the only hope for leveraging a traditional and more lucrative licencing deal (the ViPs were never a part of the suit as the handle DVR trick play based upon some hardware). The cuicut ruling sharply criticising the Tyler Texas court for how it proceeded and ruled during both phases, ruled pretty much (a long detailed explanation of what would be proper legal test) that whole new trail for the work around would need begin from step 1. The incentive to settle at this point for TiVo is not waiting another 5+ years for anything to show for expensive and extended legal fees that were bringing TiVo breaths away from having no financial resources whatsoever, nor the lesser wait time for a Supreme Court decision IF they would even hear the case at all and lost likely go out of business waiting a likely rejection that would have put TiVo in a place to name the terms to Dish, but settling would give TiVo the cash influx it desperately need and a "victory" it could wave in the face of the, numerous others it also sued and a few others they had not gotten around to serving yet; for Dish it would end it's expensive legal costs, uncertainty of how to proceed and grant Dish TiVo's entire patent portfolio for life in exchange for some chump change cash. It was good for both, not the truly lucrative licencing deal TiVo always wanted without granting lifetime rights to all its patents. However, for TiVo, this settlement was a psychological victory that did force many of the others into far more lucrative and restrictive licencing deals TiVo always wanted.

No we do not know that, in truth, Dish stole the TiVo patents. Unfortunately may never know. Sure, Dish may have, but the Tyler Texas trial never proved it. The proof would be in the code, we know at least 2 jurors (and many forum posters) never considered the examination of the software itself, but ONLY the fact that TiVo left their DVR with Dish after a presentation. And while it is true Dish never returned the unit and later claimed it lost it (suspicious, to be sure), neither did TiVo EVER ask for its return, an equally suspicious set-up to a lawsuit. Fishy, yes, but not proof of patent infringement. Further, Broadcom engineers and Broadcom and 3rd party Lynix software code writers all testified explaining the long and boring technical jury sleep inducing reasons and parts of code demonstrating how it was not infringing on patents. Dish's "offending" DVRs were, essentially a 3rd party work for hire that Dish would patent, not the other companies who actually created it (Dish engineers did contribute some of the tech with Dish or those engineers holding the patents. Why weren't Broadcom, other Lynix code writers nor the individual Dish engineers who hold the patents also sued? Because they haven't business to provide TiVo with a steady stream of payments because the do not manufactured (Just about all the set top.box manufacturers who make DVRs were sued) nor sell nor place DVRs.

This was an abuse of the tort and patent system by a company going out of business, and, as it has for many others and still does for.companies like Vizio, worked to great success. Unlike TruCrypt, we ma never see an unbiased 3rd party examination of the code presented in trial to know the truth, if we can get computer scientists who understand it and come to agreement. I won't go in to that amount of money TiVo blatantly pumped into the Tyler Texas economy with cash gifts to local "causes" and sponsorships of local events, but if you do some Googling, you will find Tyler Texas to be the Stepford CT of legal company towns. No wonder higher courts regularly chide His Honor and a Supreme Court justice openly refers to it as a rouge court.
 
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Yes,a verdict, but Dish had removed the vast majority of "offenxing" DVRRs and had a ready inventory to replace the few that were still in some homes. Knowing this TiVo changed tactics and focused on the work around as the only hope for leveraging a traditional and more lucrative licencing deal (the ViPs were never a part of the suit as the handle DVR trick play based upon some hardware). The cuicut ruling sharply criticising the Tyler Texas court for how it proceeded and ruled during both phases, ruled pretty much (a long detailed explanation of what would be proper legal test) that whole new trail for the work around would need begin from step 1. The incentive to settle at this point for TiVo is not waiting another 5+ years for anything to show for expensive and extended legal fees that were bringing TiVo breaths away from having no financial resources whatsoever, nor the lesser wait time for a Supreme Court decision IF they would even hear the case at all and lost likely go out of business waiting a likely rejection that would have put TiVo in a place to name the terms to Dish, but settling would give TiVo the cash influx it desperately need and a "victory" it could wave in the face of the, numerous others it also sued and a few others they had not gotten around to serving yet; for Dish it would end it's expensive legal costs, uncertainty of how to proceed and grant Dish TiVo's entire patent portfolio for life in exchange for some chump change cash. It was good for both, not the truly lucrative licencing deal TiVo always wanted without granting lifetime rights to all its patents. However, for TiVo, this settlement was a psychological victory that did force many of the others into far more lucrative and restrictive licencing deals TiVo always wanted.

No we do not know that, in truth, Dish stole the TiVo patents. Unfortunately may never know. Sure, Dish may have, but the Tyler Texas trial never proved it. The proof would be in the code, we know at least 2 jurors (and many forum posters) never considered the examination of the software itself, but ONLY the fact that TiVo left their DVR with Dish after a presentation. And while it is true Dish never returned the unit and later claimed it lost it (suspicious, to be sure), neither did TiVo EVER ask for its return, an equally suspicious set-up to a lawsuit. Fishy, yes, but not proof of patent infringement. Further, Broadcom engineers and Broadcom and 3rd party Lynix software code writers all testified explaining the long and boring technical jury sleep inducing reasons and parts of code demonstrating how it was not infringing on patents. Dish's "offending" DVRs were, essentially a 3rd party work for hire that Dish would patent, not the other companies who actually created it (Dish engineers did contribute some of the tech with Dish or those engineers holding the patents. Why weren't Broadcom, other Lynix code writers nor the individual Dish engineers who hold the patents also sued? Because they haven't business to provide TiVo with a steady stream of payments because the do not manufactured (Just about all the set top.box manufacturers who make DVRs were sued) nor sell nor place DVRs.

This was an abuse of the tort and patent system by a company going out of business, and, as it has for many others and still does for.companies like Vizio, worked to great success. Unlike TruCrypt, we ma never see an unbiased 3rd party examination of the code presented in trial to know the truth, if we can get computer scientists who understand it and come to agreement. I won't go in to that amount of money TiVo blatantly pumped into the Tyler Texas economy with cash gifts to local "causes" and sponsorships of local events, but if you do some Googling, you will find Tyler Texas to be the Stepford CT of legal company towns. No wonder higher courts regularly chide His Honor and a Supreme Court justice openly refers to it as a rouge court.

IF only you could provide more details DISHsubLA, if only.........;)
 
While it may be Dish fantasy to say the jurors never examined the code and never proved Dish stole anything from TiVo, the reality is that that it does not matter. The jury ruled that they did steal TiVo's patented ideas. Which does not matter what the code may say. Dish lost the court case, Dish lost appeals, and Dish was facing injunctions and damages. Dish gave up 500 million to avoid going further. If Dish really thought they would somehow end up on top of this case they would not have settled. It was quite obvious Dish was determined to fight after many, many appeals and motions. The fact that Dish gave up and paid shows they knew that even new boxes may not have survived further litigation.

Note, I am not saying that Dish was in fact doing the alleged stealing. In fact I think Dish did an excellent job coding around the patents. But, that does not matter, what matters is the verdict. The verdict says it was infringement and the appeals did not turn it over.
 

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