TNT, FOX, Other HD ... {RANT}

[Madtown HD Junkie]

After watching the ABC-MNF game tonight, 10-4-2004 I hope D* gets any satellites in orbit as fast as they can. I received the game from D* through my local KOMO TV located in Seattle which is not an O&O station. Since I cannot receive KOMO by OTA because of continual dropouts, I receive the broadcast in SD. My reception was as follows: (1) Dull, washed out colors (2) Grainy picture quality (3) Horizontal rolling bars moving upward on both TV's, a Mitsu 51HDX82 and Sony KDF-60XBR950. What a waste!!! Absolutly the worst picture I have seen for monday night football from D*. Hopefully they can get Spaceway 1 & 2 up at an earlier date then scheduled so as to releave some of this compression as I can't see how its going to get better with adding TNT-HD and FOX-HD!!!
Jim

My satellite abc looked the same but the other channels on D* looked fine. maybe it was a ABC thing??

 

[slacker9876]

Okay here comes the part where I admit was wrong on an earlier post. Out of pure curiosity I have added the ANALOG versions of my locals back in to my guide. I watched ABC MNF on my antenna. The color was nothing short of brilliant, my D* locals appeared washed out as the "previous caller" stated. I did have some ghosting but all in all good ol analog TV looked far better than what D* gave me.

Digital cable is coming to my house this week (only for a trial comparison) and I am anxious to see how my locals will look there. Since they will lower resolution than analog OTA I am not getting my hopes up.

 

[vurbano]

I'm afraid that after so long of bad PQ, they will try to condition us to it and it will never go back( kind of like our gas prices!?!)

TC

I fear that with every service, OTA also

 

[stevesmall]

I too am getting digital cable installed, again just because the pq has been getting worse with Direc* I gave voo* a shot they were horrible, terrible csr's bad billing practices and installs inc, what a worthless bunch of slugs. Well ill try cable and compare the 2 side by side, i have been a D* subscriber since their 3rd month of operation. but it is not what it used to be ! Hopefully they will imprive the pic q with the new sats but they are 9 months away.that equates to 1000 dollars to me, well good luck to all and lets hope direc* gets better SOON

 

[slacker9876]

I too am getting digital cable installed, again just because the pq has been getting worse with Direc* I gave voo* a shot they were horrible, terrible csr's bad billing practices and installs inc, what a worthless bunch of slugs. Well ill try cable and compare the 2 side by side, i have been a D* subscriber since their 3rd month of operation. but it is not what it used to be ! Hopefully they will imprive the pic q with the new sats but they are 9 months away.that equates to 1000 dollars to me, well good luck to all and lets hope direc* gets better SOON

I feel the same way. Problem is I KNOW that cable stinks and I cannot put my setup into standby (seasonal) because I have the NFL Sunday Ticket. I can however strip my package to nothing and stop the flow of cash for now.

Too Bad my HTL-HD will do cable but not digital cable ... we are so many years away from getting STB's that are right it is not even funny. By that I mean a universal STB that does OTA, Cable, SAT and FTA, a built in DVR would be nice to ... but alas it will not happen anytime soon.

It is just too bad that I am even considering that cable could be better than D*. Funny thing ... why is the SD so bad during NON-NFLST hours ....... certainly D* knows these problems exist. When one of your biggest advocates (like me) it unhappy with the PQ, ya gotta do something!

 

[steverobertson]

I disagree I think the PQ has gotten better I jhave checked many channels out just to see if it was 1 or 2. The only exception would be ESPN 2 and Fox sport channels they look just as bad as ever. The ESPN game plan games look pretty bad as well.

 

[Alan Gordon]

Too Bad my HTL-HD will do cable but not digital cable ... we are so many years away from getting STB's that are right it is not even funny.

I'd just be glad if DirecTV updated the HTL-HD to where you can have more than two markets information listed on your program guide. I mean, some of the stations that are in my secondary network I can't pick up... some of the stations in other areas come in good but I can't get information on them. They need to update it where you can customize the stations that you receive the info from and not necessarily the market...

~Alan

 

[slacker9876]

I disagree I think the PQ has gotten better I jhave checked many channels out just to see if it was 1 or 2. The only exception would be ESPN 2 and Fox sport channels they look just as bad as ever. The ESPN game plan games look pretty bad as well.

The PQ has gotten better on cable or satellite? Tonight will be dish pointing and transponder strength test for me. I have been saying I'd tweak my dish for months but have not done so. That, however, does not explain PQ ... it is not like my house moved. Sure it settles but not in a months time.

 

[Mike Greer]

I think granted the griping they are getting (seems to have stopped Fox HD from addition) they will look at what they need to do. I will gripe no less than once a week until they decompress this crap.

Mike Greer: If your listening, cable still sucks but I'll have a definitive answer on this come Friday when I get installed.

I have both Comcast Cable (analog and digital) and at least for another few weeks DirecTV.

I wouldn't say cable sucks (in my area anyway).

The analog channels are channels are most definitely easier to look at. They may have some of the usual analog issues but the picture is a lot easier to watch than the over compressed stuff from DirecTV.

The digital cable channels are ok but not great - mostly like DirecTV.

The HD Channels beat the pants of off the crap HD that DirecTV has and they have more HDTV channels than DirecTV does.

If you care about HDTV picture quality and quantity Comcast beats DirecTV and Dish Network by a long ways.

If you care about a simple way to get cable channels to a bunch of small TV's then analog cable beats any satellite. The analog picture quality varies but its in almost all accounts better than non-HD satellite.

If you want Tivo - you don't have a choice - you must put up with DirecTV and their over-compressed crap.

In a few years maybe DirecTV will give us full bandwidth HDTV and Tivo but its not likely - after they force the people that care to give up the PQ and never let other see what real HDTV they won't have any reason to give us better PQ. They probably won't have Tivo even if they do improve their PQ.

 

[Mike Greer]

The PQ has gotten better on cable or satellite? Tonight will be dish pointing and transponder strength test for me. I have been saying I'd tweak my dish for months but have not done so. That, however, does not explain PQ ... it is not like my house moved. Sure it settles but not in a months time.

Tweaking your dish will not improve your picture even in the smallest amount. Because you are dealing with digital video you either get it or you don't. There is a small place right between where you get and you where you don't that will give you picture drop outs and pixelating. Unless you are right on the edge adjusting your dish will do nothing to improve your picture. You can tweak your dish if you are having a problem with rain fade or drop outs otherwise I'd save yourself some time and don't bother...

If you get a picture at a signal level of lets say 48, your picture will be no different than if you have signal level of 100. You want to be as high as possible so you don't have problems with heavy clouds or rain killing your signal not because you want to get the best picture quality. EVERYONE gets the same "100% Digital picture quality" as the next. The PQ differences can be cause by which receiver you use, the cable and connection type to your display, your display type and proper adjustment.

 

[Alan Gordon]

The PQ differences can be cause by which receiver you use, the cable and connection type to your display, your display type and proper adjustment.

Case in point: MOST of the SD channels (not all) look GREAT on my 50-inch Hitachi using S-Video. It's not DirecTV circa 1994, but it still looks great!

~Alan

 

[Mike Greer]

Case in point: MOST of the SD channels (not all) look GREAT on my 50-inch Hitachi using S-Video. It's not DirecTV circa 1994, but it still looks great!

~Alan

I have a few types of displays and receivers..... 19" TV, 27" high end TV, 55" Cheap-o HDTV, 70" Cheap LCD bulb projector and a 100" high end CRT projector. I wouldn't say ANY of the SD channels from DirecTV on any of these display devices look "GREAT". The best SD channels look OK or maybe GOOD on the 19" and 27" but anything bigger it goes down hill quickly. The best PQ I get is with HDTV from Comcast on the CRT projector. The best SD is analog from C-Band Satellite on any of the displays.

 

[Alan Gordon]

I have a few types of displays and receivers..... 19" TV, 27" high end TV, 55" Cheap-o HDTV, 70" Cheap LCD bulb projector and a 100" high end CRT projector. I wouldn't say ANY of the SD channels from DirecTV on any of these display devices look "GREAT".

I think it depends on a lot of things, I mean HDTV, HDNet, OTA, etc. look the best to me. DVD (TV on DVD, not movies) when done correct is tied with the PQ of the circa 1994 DirecTV. DirecTV now beats the cable in my area... at least the channels I've seen, not to mention Dish Network, and especially OTA... at least the non-digital stations I can pick up. While there is a very apparent difference between... say, Buffy season six episodes on DVD compared to the same episodes on FX as the DVD's PQ is MUCH sharper. However, seasons one through three(?) DVDs look MUCH better on FX via DirecTV. I've had similar experiences with other shows, and programming is going to affect the signal, but I'd still say that (MOST) DirecTV SD channels look "GREAT", not "PERFECT" on my Hitachi 50-inch.

There was a brief time last year when they were monkeying with the transponders when that wasn't the case and I got to where I was so disappointed with the PQ on some of my favorites...

~Alan

 

[Neutron]

If you're so PO'd about the PQ then you need to do what you feel is best for your entertainment dollar. For me Directv still beats the cable company (Insight Communications) by a long shot. Our apartment rent includes basic and classic cable, something we don't use. To get what we have now we will still be $10 more a month than we are paying now, not even taking into consideration that we are already paying for that level of cable through the apartment!!

 

[markd]

Yep, I meant the Spaceway sats. I knew from reading on these forums that these sats are for "MORE" HD and HD-LIL channels. I think it would be great if D*gave more bandwidth to what they have first. Then use the rest of the bandwidth for new channels. I don't believe D* will do this unless a lot of subs let them know what they think about the current PQ.

I sent them an email the first of Sept telling them I don't like what has happened to the PQ of HDNet movies and SHO-HD after they started moving the channels around (aka putting 3 channels on one transponder). And if they didn't get it fixed before my contract was up (end of Sept) I will be going back to cable. I told them I got an HDTV for the great PQ and I was unwilling to sacrifice that.

Alan,
I'm glad to hear you have a good SD picture on your 50" Hitachi. I'll keep that in mind when the time comes to upgrade my Sony 46" RPTV. I actually get a better picture from my Hughes E-86 through 1080i than from s-video. The SD compression has bugged me from day one. But I got 8 HD channels vs the 1 I had with TWC last year. Now TWC had more HD channels. But TWC's PG is awful compare to D*.

I figure by June of next year D* will have the Spaceway sats up and them working. Then I'll make a decision to go back or not.

 

[slacker9876]

The Next Step, PQ continued ...

I have decided to take the next step in my perceived quality issues with DirecTV. I say perceived but I think we all know they have fallen off bad in the last 6 weeks. Point blank, their SD PQ has approached the levels maintained by voom during my brief stint with them in May and June, minus the sparklies.

I am snubbing Lawrence Fishboune, Danny Devito and the host of other celebrity ads run over the summer. Since e-mail responses are all met with the same canned answer "We're sorry your experiencing technical issues, these are hard to repair over e-mail, please call" I will write D* on paper and I plan to send 3 copies, one for customer service, one for investor relations and one for the CEO himself. I am going to tell D* that the falling off of the quality of their product has caused me to get digital cable. I will tell them I appreciate the $30 in credits a month that I am getting but that it may not be enough. I am going to let them know that I want PQ back to the levels we had in 1997-2003. I will also let them know I want more HD but not at the expense of all the other programing. I also plan to let them know I would like to see their hardware stepped up; allowing for reception of OTA or standard cable though the tuners and allowing population of guide data as my HTL-HD does. Also, what kind of whiner would I be if I did not include a request for HMO in there on my now 3 TiVo receivers. I will add in for mirror charges as well.

Hopefully those in the forum will follow suit. There is strength in numbers. While we represent less than .05% of the customer base, we are the most educated, on average. We all know that TNT-HD and FOX-HD have not arrived. We all suspect this is due to complaint levels. We all should know it is not just us complaining, as I said we represent less than .05% of the the entire customer base. Business decisions are not made on our input alone.

I paste a copy of the letter in this thread this evening if anyone cares to review it.

 

[Barney]

After this last weekend...I'll have to agree. I think I'll join in. Like you & everyone else here has stated, I'd like the PQ we "used" to have. I haven't called or emailed before about the PQ, just saying to myself, "Give 'em Time". Well, I'm also paying for a service that has fallen down in quality. Thats the reason I dropped Cable in 1998. Don't want them to think we don't care about PQ. Most of us have researched/viewed/invested in some kind of HDTV. We didn't just go buy a HDTV blindly (along with our processors/audio/etc)

 

[slacker9876]

Well it is not my best work, but I think it is about as good as anything that would come from legal aid. Scott, I hope you're not sore at me for offering up the site. I am assuming you would welcome the opportunity and the exposure but I knew going in what happens when people ass-u-me.

Chase Carey
c/o DirecTV Group
2250 E. Imperial Hwy.
El Segundo, CA 90245

Customer Service
PO Box 70014
Boise ID 83707-0114

October 5, 2004
Various Topics

Mr. Chase Carey,

I am writing today to express concern on many topics concerning DirecTV service, programming and hardware. I do understand that it is unlikely that you will be able to personally respond to this request, however, I wanted to make sure you were aware of issues affecting myself and others as customer of DirecTV.

First and foremost, the quality of the product is slipping to an extreme degree. Not in the quantity, DirecTV provides a very diverse lineup; but in actual picture quality. I have noticed over the last several months many artifacts appearing across all the channels I watch. I attribute this to either having too may channels on a select transponder and/or the compression mechanisms in place by DirecTV. This issue has become far worse since the start of the NFL regular season. I am by no means a technical expert on satellites, however, myself and others whom I would consider very knowledgeable converse regularly via forums on the Internet including SatelliteGuys.us, TiVoCommunity.com and avsforum.com. Many members have noted the same issues, most of us have higher end equipment in the form of HDTV receivers, TiVo and various types of big screen televisions, 42 inches and larger. In order to be specific I may note I have seen these issues across all movie channels including HBO, Starz, etc. It is also apparent to me on FoodTV, ESPNHD, ESPN (all flavors) and my local channels in the Denver market. In remedy to this, Comcast will be installing digital cable at my home on October 6th, 2004. This will be for a trial basis of 30 days. Upon conclusion of this trial I'll make a decision of where my best value is for my programming dollar.

Second I wanted to address High Definition programming from DirecTV. In preface, I must state that I do not want additional programming at the cost of current picture quality. I would like to see the addition of all premium movie networks that DirecTV currently carries , including the east and west coast feeds. I would also like to see InHD 1&2, and other future quality networks. I know when SpaceWay 1&2 are launched this will accommodate a great deal of HD programming including HD LIL stations. I think I speak for many when I say we would prefer the 150 national HD stations to the 500 HD LIL stations. Since there are currently not 150 national channels, we should be able to get everything that is available today without too much of an issue. I personally feel it is the responsibility of the FCC to get local stations broadcast, in full power, on the Digital TV standard they mandated in 1996. I also think that HD programming should be either at no additional charge and spread across the entire customer base. $1.00 from 13.1 million customers better than $10.99 from 750,000. They too will be enjoying this programming in the very near term.

Last, DirecTV needs to continue to lead in hardware. I think many of us would like to see our DirecTV DVR's upgraded to version 4 of the TiVo software and have the Home Media Option enabled. This is a valuable service and DirecTV definitely leads TiVo in relation to value already. There is a lot of speculation on this issue and the standard rumor seems to be that DirecTV will force TiVo to fold and do as they see fit with the software and operations. Sounds great to me, but it is just a rumor. Also, I would like to see continued expansion of compatibility with DirecTV receivers in relation to other technology. I think all receivers should allow for integration with cable and NTSC/ATSC broadcasts received over the air. My HTL-HD does this and it is great!

In summary please get back to being the industry leader. I have been with DirecTV for many years and very much want to remain a customer. There is a lot we need as customers and I'm sure DirecTV is able to make everyone happy. I think most of us desire:
1)Diverse quality programming.
2)High Definition programming, including sports and movies.
3)Picture quality that leads the industry.
4)Technological advances that make our experience easier and better.
5)Feature the best hardware that is available to own.
6)Adjust costs (operational) to all customers.

I would like to thank you for the service credits that have been extended to me for the next six months. However, I don't care about the money as much as I do the quality of the programming. I am willing to pay my share. I hope my two cents will make a difference. I am sure DirecTV already conducts focus groups to see what customers want. Just as a suggestion, satelliteguys.us already hosts a “Charlie Chat” with the CEO of Echostar. I am sure the site operator Scott Greczkowski (Scott.Greczkowski@satelliteguys.us) would be happy to do the same for you. I think this could be one of the best tools offered in relation to a focus group environment and you would have some of the best educated customers offering suggestions and giving DirecTV the “pulse of the people.” That type of input would be priceless.

Regards,

I know that some of you will agree with this and others will shun it. Feel free to set the flame throwers to high ... I happen to be in a good mood today. I do think this is a good thing, a good letter, and it will be good to let D* know what we all think. So break out your keyboards and get hot on it! E-mail does not have the same effect as paper!

 

[slacker9876]

New Information

I have posted new information into another thread. I took the next step and this is where it lead.

Mods ... feel free to merge.

 

[nhlfan79]

The sentiment and tone are perfectly fine, but I'm a pragmatist. If you want to even have the smallest chance of them paying attention to your letter, you need to shorten it by about 80% and hit just the high points. Then make yourself available to elaborate on any points if they are interested.

Nothing personal, but if I was them receiving your original letter, it'd immediately go in the circular file just from the sheer length of it.

Just some friendly advice.
Adam